Ellipses - why we find Thomaas so infuriating!

[Chief Stipe]

HOW TO MISUSE YOUR ELLIPSES AND INFURIATE YOUR READERS
Have you ever imagined that something as seemingly trivial as a punctuation mark could completely change not only the meaning, but the entire tone of a sentence? Sure you have.

As an example, consider the ellipsis. You know, this thing:

…

First, let’s establish what an ellipsis is properly used for. You can use it to abridge a quote as long as you retain the meaning of the original. If you’re writing dialogue, you can use it to indicate that the speaker is trailing off or that his statement is left hanging without an immediate response. If you’re writing dialogue for a JRPG, you can use an ellipsis on its own to indicate that a character is brooding and doesn’t want to respond to another character’s questions, or that he’s secretly a bad guy posing really unconvincingly as a good guy, which will be revealed by the game long after you’ve already figured it out on your own.

Set aside the usual questions of whether the periods should be spaced and how many there should be (common usage says three dots, but some style guides like the Bluebook dictate four.) Those rules aren’t all that important. What is important is the meaning of the ellipsis, both intended (by the writer) and perceived (by the reader.) This mainly comes up in writing meant to directly communicate information and ideas – personal emails and messages, office correspondence, etc.

An embarrassing example

Let’s look at an example sentence, first with standard punctuation and then with an ellipsis shoved in its place. In this scenario imagine the person being spoken to has just had his secret collection of My Little Pony dolls discovered by his girlfriend and she told their mutual friends about it (Note: this is not me I’m talking about. I just have some friends with strange interests.) In an email to said guy, one of the friends in question writes:

Don’t worry; nobody thinks you’re weird.

A direct statement that seems to mean what it says. Nobody in their common social circle thinks the My Little Pony-having guy is weird. This statement may not be believable, but at the very least we can infer that the writer himself doesn’t think his friend is weird.

Now compare the above statement with this one:

Don’t worry; nobody thinks you’re weird…

Suddenly the tone of the statement has changed. Those two extra dots suggest the friend is trailing off here, that he doesn’t actually believe what he is saying. Perhaps he’s being sarcastic. Or it could be that he’s serious, but he is dismissing Mr. Pony’s anxiety here as silly. Another possibility is that the writer really does mean what he’s saying, but he simply doesn’t understand that the ellipsis here throws the meaning of his statement into doubt. Therefore, the use of an ellipsis here changes “Nobody thinks you’re weird” from a direct statement of fact or opinion to a statement that could mean a few different things depending on how the writer meant the ellipsis to be read. Even if, objectively speaking, the person on the receiving end should rightfully be ashamed of his actions, this kind of confusion is still a very bad thing.

You see how frustrating the ellipsis can make simple communication? You don’t even have to be a grown man who watches shows for little girls to suffer the ill effects of such confusion. Texts and emails dealing with business matters can, if they use ellipses recklessly, actually hurt business. Clarity in language is vital, especially when you’re trying to get things done.

So what’s the message here? If you don’t want to come off like a passive-aggressive prick, don’t use ellipses to end your sentences. They are not substitutes for periods. When used in place of periods, they cause confusion, frustration, anger, hurt feelings, wailing and gnashing of teeth. Have respect for punctuation. Use ellipses where they’re actually needed – otherwise, give them a break. And if you happen to be a serial ellipsis misuser, it’s not too late to repent your ways.

[Thomass]

Is this a freaken windup??

The head post should say YOU!!!

Only anal retentives would have this problem. .  .  .it's moi's style to get to the point. .  .  .ok??

Release the ridiculous three dot ban now. .  .  . or I'm outa hair. .  .  . ok? 

[Chief Stipe]

Not a wind up.  Your use of Ellipses IS irritating to those who have been taught correctly how to read.  Try writing without them.

For example your last post if written without them reads a damn sight better:

Only anal retentives would have this problem and it's moi's style to get to the point.  ok??

 Release the ridiculous three dot ban now or I'm outa hair.  ok? 

Aside from the inherent dribble contained in the posts which to be frank is no different from some other posters I couldn't work out what was so irritating about Thomaas's posts.  I then did some research on the use of ellipses (...) and re-discovered how I had been trained to interpret them as a child.  Since Thomaas uses them incorrectly when reading his posts my subconscious was continually trying to interpret something that wasn't really there.

So I experimented with a few of his posts and discovered that removing the ... actually made his posts less aggressive and easier to read.  A damn sight less frustrating as well.

[All The Aces]

Where is the NO option.

For those of us with enough comprehension who don't find it irritating, infuriating and/or difficult to read .

The poll is so biased it's irritating and infuriating.…. ? 

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, All The Aces said:

Where is the NO option.

For those of us with enough comprehension who don't find it irritating, infuriating and/or difficult to read .

The poll is so biased it's irritating and infuriating.…. ? 

There is a "Don't care" option.  As for comprehension I've post the grammatical rules for the use of ellipses:

Definition

An ellipsis (plural: ellipses) is a punctuation mark consisting of three dots.

Use an ellipsis when omitting a word, phrase, line, paragraph, or more from a quoted passage. Ellipses save space or remove material that is less relevant. They are useful in getting right to the point without delay or distraction:

Full quotation: "Today, after hours of careful thought, we vetoed the bill."

With ellipsis: "Today … we vetoed the bill."

Although ellipses are used in many ways, the three-dot method is the simplest. Newspapers, magazines, and books of fiction and nonfiction use various approaches that they find suitable.

Some writers and editors feel that no spaces are necessary.

Example: I don't know…I'm not sure.

Others enclose the ellipsis with a space on each side.

Example: I don't know … I'm not sure.

Still others put a space either directly before or directly after the ellipsis.

Examples:
I don't know …I'm not sure.
I don't know… I'm not sure.

A four-dot method and an even more rigorous method used in legal works require fuller explanations that can be found in other reference books.

 

 

Rule 1. Many writers use an ellipsis whether the omission occurs at the beginning of a sentence, in the middle of a sentence, or between sentences.

A common way to delete the beginning of a sentence is to follow the opening quotation mark with an ellipsis, plus a bracketed capital letter:

Example: "… [A]fter hours of careful thought, we vetoed the bill."

Other writers omit the ellipsis in such cases, feeling the bracketed capital letter gets the point across.

[Chief Stipe]

The three little innocent-looking dots of an ellipsis (…) probably carry more power to annoy and confuse your readers than any other punctuation mark.

Apostrophe mistakes look harmless in comparison. Nobody seriously reads ‘orange’s 45p’ and assumes that the orange must own a small amount of loose change. Ellipses, by contrast, can completely change the tone and meaning of what you write. And people who misuse them often don’t realise what they’re doing. Here are five ways not to use an ellipsis.

1. Using them … like a written ‘erm’ …

Trailing off in the middle of sentences in spoken conversation is common and almost unavoidable. (Unless you’re Oscar Wilde – WB Yeats said Wilde was the first person he’d met who spoke in perfect sentences.) But it’s rarely necessary to do this in writing.

In spoken conversation, you can rely on various cues to tell you whether the other person understands what you’re saying, and clarify as needed. But in writing, you need to be clear first time. Many writers use ellipses like written equivalents of ‘erm’ and ‘er’, but this can be confusing and frustrating for the reader.

To avoid inadvertently creating a ‘fill in the blanks’ puzzle, force yourself to finish your sentences. This might mean you have to do a bit more work before pressing send – quite possibly work you were trying to avoid. But just console yourself with the knowledge that you’re sending out a little more good sense into the world.

Compare these emails:

‘I haven’t had the full invitation to tender back yet … whom do I talk to? … no idea about the competitors … haven’t started the tender … not sure about our solution or details.’

‘I haven’t received the full invitation to tender document yet. And I only know the bare bones of the solution we’re going to propose. At this stage, I don’t even know whom to talk to about getting all the necessary information (about costs, materials, people) together. Do you have any suggestions?’

Concrete writing like this will naturally take longer than simply typing the first things that come to mind. But the extra time you spend focusing on what you’re actually saying, and why, will help clarify your message both for you and your reader, and ultimately increase your chances of getting the kind of response you want.

If you need to create a pause (a purposeful one, not an ‘erm’), consider using an en-dash instead of an ellipsis. It feels much more confident, especially when you need to link related parts of a sentence – like this.

2. Trailing off for no reason …

An ellipsis at the end of a sentence implies that the writer has trailed off. But why has the writer trailed off? Are they suggesting something? Does it represent a nudge or a wink?

Those three little dots suggest something is going on, but give the reader no clue about what it might be. This can make otherwise straightforward sentences confusing and (occasionally) somewhat unsettling.

Compare these sentences:

‘It’s not a problem for us to meet on Monday.’

‘It’s not a problem for us to meet on Monday …’

The trailing off in the second example could suggest the writer is having doubts (perhaps it is a problem). Or maybe it expresses confusion about why a meeting is even necessary. Or, if the writer is a chronic ellipsis-abuser, it may mean nothing at all. The reader must then judge what the meaning might be, or ask for clarification.

If you’re unsure about meeting on Monday, say so and explain why. For example: ‘It’s not a problem for us to meet on Monday, but I’m not sure if that will be helpful because John won’t be here and we need his input.’

3. Three is the magic number

Some style guides recommend writing an ellipsis as three full stops: …

Some prefer three full stops with spaces between them: . . .

Whichever you use (we prefer three full stops without spaces, except on Twitter), all style guides agree that ellipses are three dots long. Not four, or two (and five is right out).

You may see what appears to be a four-dot ellipsis at the end of some sentences (eg ‘And then John fell asleep ….). This is in fact an ellipsis with a full stop at the end. You may also sometimes see three dots, a space and then a further dot (eg ‘And then John fell asleep … .). Again, style guides vary on this.

4. Omitting crucial parts of a quotation

You’ll often find that you need to condense quotes, and you can use an ellipsis to show that you’ve removed parts of the original. But be careful. To be completely transparent, you need to be sure that you’re not changing the meaning of what somebody has said.

Take this remark from US President Coolidge and the often-quoted condensed version:

‘The chief business of the American people is business’

‘The … business of the American people is business’

This changes the meaning of his sentence. The original version says that business is the most important concern, whereas in the second it sounds as if business is the only important thing.

5. Implying you have more to say when you haven’t

This is a very particular kind of trailing off, and possibly the most annoying of all. It often implies that what needs to be said is so obvious to the (knowledgeable) writer that it should be obvious to the reader, too. This can backfire badly – at worst, it can appear smug or condescending.

For example:

‘That’s a good plan, but there are important considerations …’

This kind of ellipsis is more suited to enigmatic status updates on social media (’OMG some people are so annoying …’), not that we advocate that sort of thing. For business it’s better to spell things out.

Ask yourself why you’re tempted to use an ellipsis, get the answer straight in your head, then politely say that instead: ‘That’s a good plan, but I’m worried about how expensive it is. We’re also working on so many other projects that I’m not sure we’ll have the time to spare’.

Use with caution …

Like many of the best things in life, ellipses are fine when used well and in moderation, but troublesome when used recklessly. (OK, OK, we’re sounding like your dad now.) So keep using them, if you wish, but do so consciously. And if you catch yourself dot-dot-dotting to cop out of saying what you actually mean, take a moment’s pause. What is likely to be the most positive approach in the long run? At work, usually, clarity is king.

[All The Aces]

43 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

There is a "Don't care" option.  As for comprehension I've post the grammatical rules for the use of ellipses:

Definition

An ellipsis (plural: ellipses) is a punctuation mark consisting of three dots.

Use an ellipsis when omitting a word, phrase, line, paragraph, or more from a quoted passage. Ellipses save space or remove material that is less relevant. They are useful in getting right to the point without delay or distraction:

Full quotation: "Today, after hours of careful thought, we vetoed the bill."

With ellipsis: "Today … we vetoed the bill."

Although ellipses are used in many ways, the three-dot method is the simplest. Newspapers, magazines, and books of fiction and nonfiction use various approaches that they find suitable.

Some writers and editors feel that no spaces are necessary.

Example: I don't know…I'm not sure.

Others enclose the ellipsis with a space on each side.

Example: I don't know … I'm not sure.

Still others put a space either directly before or directly after the ellipsis.

Examples:
I don't know …I'm not sure.
I don't know… I'm not sure.

A four-dot method and an even more rigorous method used in legal works require fuller explanations that can be found in other reference books.

 

 

Rule 1. Many writers use an ellipsis whether the omission occurs at the beginning of a sentence, in the middle of a sentence, or between sentences.

A common way to delete the beginning of a sentence is to follow the opening quotation mark with an ellipsis, plus a bracketed capital letter:

Example: "… [A]fter hours of careful thought, we vetoed the bill."

Other writers omit the ellipsis in such cases, feeling the bracketed capital letter gets the point across.

 

"Don't really care".…a very wishy washy ill defined option. " No" is a far more definitive option.and with decisive authority.  

The answer to your poll is  NO!!!!!   Not at all.definitely not.naddah 

  

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, All The Aces said:

 

"Don't really care".…a very wishy washy ill defined option. " No" is a far more definitive option.and with decisive authority.  

The answer to your poll is  NO!!!!!   Not at all.definitely not.naddah 

  

I've added the option of "No" just for you.

I'm trying to help Thomaas so he doesn't get as bad a rap has he does.

[Weasel]

CS, you need to be careful when framing a Vote (survey of opinion) question that you don't 'skew it' one way or t'other. By using the word 'excessive' in the phrase 'excessive use of ellipses', there is a clear implication of undesirability, 'excess' being an undesirable quality, certainly in this context. 

I recommend that the word 'excessive' be replaced with 'frequent' (or something similar).

MM

 

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Weasel

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Weasel said:

CS, you need to be careful when framing a Vote (survey of opinion) question that you don't 'skew it' one way or t'other. By using the word 'excessive' in the phrase 'excessive use of ellipses', there is a clear implication of undesirability, 'excess' being an undesirable quality, certainly in this context. 

I recommend that the word 'excessive' be replaced with 'frequent' (or something similar).

MM

 

 

I'm not concerned with any perceived bias in my poll.  As for excessive, 100% of his posts (except the one's I recently edited) have 3 or more ellipses.  If you have been trained to read correctly then his posts become unreadable and irritating.  

It is for his benefit to change.  If he used the ellipses tool correctly AND less frequently he would find people would view his posts more favourably.

For example one use of ellipses is to infer "read between the lines."  When someone who has been well educated, e.g. Reefton, points this out Thomaas hides behind "oh that isn't what I meant."  He can't have it both ways!

[All The Aces]

Chief. 20 hours you have had this up and four people agree with you and four don't.  Not a great reaction by anyone's standards.

As Meghan states in the song.…."You gotta let it go."  ?

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, All The Aces said:

Chief. 20 hours you have had this up and four people agree with you and four don't.  Not a great reaction by anyone's standards.

As Meghan states in the song.…."You gotta let it go."  ?

The poll went up this morning NOT 20 hours ago.

[holy ravioli]

seeing as English language is up for discussion.here is a sentence.'I never said she stole my money'.now if you emphasize each of the 7 words,you get 7 different meanings.

OMG.I have included .ellipsis.Whats the plural?

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

OMG.I have included .ellipsis.Whats the plural?

Ellipses

[holy ravioli]

11 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Ellipses

with a capital E?

bit like an orgasm,multiple orgasms.an ellipsis,multiple ellipses.

[Weasel]

17 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm not concerned with any perceived bias in my poll.  As for excessive, 100% of his posts (except the one's I recently edited) have 3 or more ellipses.  If you have been trained to read correctly then his posts become unreadable and irritating.  

It is for his benefit to change.  If he used the ellipses tool correctly AND less frequently he would find people would view his posts more favourably.

For example one use of ellipses is to infer "read between the lines."  When someone who has been well educated, e.g. Reefton, points this out Thomaas hides behind "oh that isn't what I meant."  He can't have it both ways!

So the Vote mechanism was set up to do . (note ellipse to indicate uncertainty) what? Find out what other people think? No, 'cos there is clear bias in the framing of the question. Give Thomass a hard time? Certainly . (ellipse here to indicate time passing, allowing thoughts to be processed). Anything else? Maybe. I'm guessing it's a mechanism to overwhelm poor Thomass with the weight of your 'supporters' on this trivia, as 'proven by a 'Vote'. All the Vote has proven is that not enough people care about the ellipses (note correct use of plural).

I'm tending to agree with ATA on the 'let it go' advice. But I have enjoyed the brush-up on a point of grammar,

MM

PS: Will you now undertake a poll on the irritating (or not) use of brackets (parentheses) - please note correct use of plural, but possibly incorrect use of an 'em' (cf 'en') dash.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Weasel

[Chief Stipe]

It is up to Thomaas if he reforms or not.  If he doesn't then it supports the theory that he writes the way he does to wind people up and to create ambiguity.  NOT to convey succinct and readable opinion. 

[Freda]

3 hours ago, Weasel said:

 

MM

PS: Will you now undertake a poll on the irritating (or not) use of brackets (parentheses) - please note correct use of plural, but possibly incorrect use of an 'em' (cf 'en') dash.

Talking of brackets..[ and ellipses ]   I recall Dad giving me an example.

'  over the hill and along the road, comes a man with legs extraordinary bowed .'    ascribed to H Longfellow,  describing a bow-legged man.

On the other hand,  one W. Shakespeare might have said   '  but lo!   what manner of man is this,  who comes with balls in parentheses'.

[Weasel]

Addendum to previous post.

My ellipses had some of their connecting dots disconnected, in effect making them unrecognisable as ellipses and much more like periods (or full stops, if you prefer), albeit with an unnecessary space before the said dot, in effect making it grammatically incorrect in each instance.

What can a poor Mustelid do (?) . other than to resolve to review and revise far more carefully before posting henceforth and thitherwith.

MM

B.A. (Hons), Mustelid School of Engrish

Edited August 22, 2019 by Weasel

[Thomass]

On 21/08/2019 at 11:14 AM, Chief Stipe said:

I've added the option of "No" just for you.

I'm trying to help Thomaas so he doesn't get as bad a rap has he does.

??

[Thomass]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

It is up to Thomaas if he reforms or not.  If he doesn't then it supports the theory that he writes the way he does to wind people up and to create ambiguity.  NOT to convey succinct and readable opinion. 

Would you prefer I use the word that the resident nutter mardigras uses?

"Fucking" instead of 3 dots?

Edited August 22, 2019 by Thomass

[Fred]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

It is up to Thomaas if he reforms or not.  If he doesn't then it supports the theory that he writes the way he does to wind people up and to create ambiguity.  NOT to convey succinct and readable opinion. 

I find him quite readable and this site appears to keep going because of him [or is it her ?]

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, Fred said:

I find him quite readable and this site appears to keep going because of him [or is it her ?]

All good.  He hasn't been banned even though I was put under extreme pressure by another group to do so.  Which is interesting I was looking through the personal messaging stats and it appears that there was quite a concerted effort behind the scenes to bring BOAY to its knees.

[All The Aces]

30 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

All good.  He hasn't been banned even though I was put under extreme pressure by another group to do so.  Which is interesting I was looking through the personal messaging stats and it appears that there was quite a concerted effort behind the scenes to bring BOAY to its knees.

The main protagonists being Hesi & Pete I would hazard a guess?   aka: Krusty The Clown & his sidekick Sideshow Bob. ?   

[Thomass]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

All good.  He hasn't been banned even though I was put under extreme pressure by another group to do so.  Which is interesting I was looking through the personal messaging stats and it appears that there was quite a concerted effort behind the scenes to bring BOAY to its knees.

W.t.f!! Have. You. Still. Got. That. F. In. Ellipsis. Ban. Automated.??

Take. The. F. In. Thing. Off. Or. I'm. Outta. Hair.

ive. F. In told. Yee.