All The Aces Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Dark Beau said: I think that the owner is pulling the strings. The young Mr McKay obviously didn’t agree with the direction the owner wanted, so off to the Rogerson setup she went. After today’s result who looks the silliest now? Such a shame for a filly that had huge potential, which sadly I don’t think we will ever see now. The horse didn't win at Ruakaka so the float came a couple of days later picked her up along with Mr Universe. Ridden upside down today and finished second last. Was just some karma coming to fruition to be fair and I hope it stays that way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, Ashley said: well bugger me who would have thought a six time group one winner would beat home a a 2yo maiden. unbelievable but maybe a step up in distance in the Livamol will suit allaluune better? .yep, Livamol by way of a warm-up over 1600 in the Windsor Park Plate. If team R had any brains between em they'd give this horse a spell and hope like hell it forgets the beat-up it just had and bring her back for the autumn ...and try to win an Oaks...perhaps starting by breaking maidens Edited August 31, 2019 by Weasel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 31, 2019 Author Share Posted August 31, 2019 Na Weasel that isn't a traditional approach to running in the Cox Plate for which Aalaalune has a nomination. Seriously though draw a comparison with Royal Popcorn yesterday at Randwick. The powers that be thought hard about not allowing it a start. A start against it's own age group NOT WFA. A factor must have been there were only 7 acceptors down to 5 by start time. Somehow it ended up 3 wide for the journey and faded out to last. Why weren't questions asked about Aalaalune? Have questions been asked afterwards? Why was it ridden against its normal racing pattern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopia Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Na Weasel that isn't a traditional approach to running in the Cox Plate for which Aalaalune has a nomination. Seriously though draw a comparison with Royal Popcorn yesterday at Randwick. The powers that be thought hard about not allowing it a start. A start against it's own age group NOT WFA. A factor must have been there were only 7 acceptors down to 5 by start time. Somehow it ended up 3 wide for the journey and faded out to last. Why weren't questions asked about Aalaalune? Have questions been asked afterwards? Why was it ridden against its normal racing pattern? Good point Chief. The Stewards here won't ask the hard questions. They're not up to it. They do the basics but won't think outside the box and ask themselves..is there something we should do from this race? Did all horses get the chance they deserved? In Aussie I understand their stewards have a race map for each race, not at every track but certainly the 'premier' tracks-before the race- and go over the replay and see if each horse was ridden appropriately, etc etc...not here. nillers. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandpiper Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 20 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I suppose you are right - she has a lot going for her - still a two year old, yet to win a race so must be due, second up which is always a good pointer to improvement, big pull in the weights, only just beaten at Ruakaka in a maiden first up. Drawn wide so will keep out of trouble. Must be better than the 3 yr olds we've seen racing so far today. Yep offload on her. Her being entitled to race was all I was pointing out CS. She ran like the $80 shot she was. It's somewhat rich to have a go at connections for racing racehorses in horse races they are entitled to race in. You pay your money you take your chance. Aalaalune began well and faded early on in the striaght to faster / fitter / better racehorses. There are plently of horses going around in races they don't have a hope in every raceday. Nothing to see here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 1, 2019 Author Share Posted September 1, 2019 25 minutes ago, Sandpiper said: Her being entitled to race was all I was pointing out CS. She ran like the $80 shot she was. It's somewhat rich to have a go at connections for racing racehorses in horse races they are entitled to race in. You pay your money you take your chance. Aalaalune began well and faded early on in the striaght to faster / fitter / better racehorses. There are plently of horses going around in races they don't have a hope in every raceday. Nothing to see here. Why is it "somewhat rich"? Racing is no different to Sport where we all have opinons. For example your post before the race seemed to rate her better than an $80 shot. Why at one stage she was as low as $18 is anyone's guess. As for Aalaalune being entitled to race in the Tarzino I don't think anyone has denied that the conditions of the race "allowed" her to race. Whether she was "entitled" is another question. The fact that no official has asked "any" questions about her racing before OR after the race is concerning. I would go so far to say that some of the posters on BOAY who have experience with racing horses would say racing her in that particular race was bordering on cruel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 11 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: The fact that no official has asked "any" questions about her racing before OR after the race is concerning. I would go so far to say that some of the posters on BOAY who have experience with racing horses would say racing her in that particular race was bordering on cruel. She had very good 2yo form and had run a close second over a distance short of her best at her previous start.On that basis you can make a case for her attempting the race. Obviously it was wrong to alter her racing pattern but some people believe that with a light weight you can go to the front and run a field off their legs -if that is what you hope to do the last thing you want is the opposition knowing your tactics [sorry Thomas] To suggest competing and getting beaten breaks her heart or causes her to lose confidence is rubbish -she has been beaten in every race she has contested . Did she turn to Endless Drama and say 'my heart is broken but yours must be truly f###ed' 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 1, 2019 Author Share Posted September 1, 2019 6 hours ago, Fred said: To suggest competing and getting beaten breaks her heart or causes her to lose confidence is rubbish -she has been beaten in every race she has contested . Did she turn to Endless Drama and say 'my heart is broken but yours must be truly f###ed' I don't imagine they are on speaking terms at the moment. But give it a couple of years (mayber sooner the way Aalaalune is being raced) they may well have a few words in the breeding barn! Endless Drama was caught out wide the whole race on what was a fast initial pace - was at least 8 wide turning for home still plugging whereas Aalaalune chucked the towel in as soon as the rest of the field set off for home. Endless Drama finished 7.5 lengths from the winner, held its ground down the straight and would have been closer if Innes hadn't sat up which was understandable as the horse wasn't going to be in the money. As was reported when it won the Foxbridge Endless Drama races better when held up for the last dig at them from a soft pozzie. Given the run it got Endless Drama performed admirably on a D4 run in 1:22. If you watch the race again and follow Endless Drama you'd say it was a gutsy run. So you can't compare the two. As for Aalaaune's "very good 2yr old form" two of the best horses she failed to beat, Yourdeel and Aretha, have yet to race this season. Both are trained by trainers that are great at placing young horses. Jamie Richards in the case of Yourdeel and Murray Baker in the case of Aretha. When was the last time they placed a young filly in a WFA in August? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 1, 2019 Author Share Posted September 1, 2019 M4%20HBAY%20R09%20310819%20TB(B).mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I don't imagine they are on speaking terms at the moment. But give it a couple of years (mayber sooner the way Aalaalune is being raced) they may well have a few words in the breeding barn! Im pretty sure Allaluune will be well and truly f##ked by Rogerson before Endless Drama ever gets the chance. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 How anyone could price up Aalaalune up at $18.00 or anywhere near that price truly astounds me. I felt sure the TAB bookies had left a 1 off the front. Then when ridden forward out of the gates they could have added two 11s in front of the $18.00s offered. A fool and their money is often parted is the saying. . . . What will they do with her. . . . take her back to maiden's, ride her properly for a soft kill and restore some confidence in her is what I would be doing. Being slaughtered like she was yesterday in a race she should never lined up in was just crazy. The owner had another well backed horse from the same stable race today at Te Aroha, shot out to a big lead and compounded. More karma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 13 hours ago, All The Aces said: How anyone could price up Aalaalune up at $18.00 or anywhere near that price truly astounds me. I felt sure the TAB bookies had left a 1 off the front. Then when ridden forward out of the gates they could have added two 11s in front of the $18.00s offered. A fool and their money is often parted is the saying. . . . What will they do with her. . . . take her back to maiden's, ride her properly for a soft kill and restore some confidence in her is what I would be doing. Being slaughtered like she was yesterday in a race she should never lined up in was just crazy. The owner had another well backed horse from the same stable race today at Te Aroha, shot out to a big lead and compounded. More karma. some idiot on the other chanell (not the king of the idiots PFP) reckoned she was good value at $18 and actaully admitted they backed her at fixed odds. in what galxy was allalunatic an $18 chance? Rogie has more chance of winning the premiership and you are right the TAB bookie whom priced it at that should be looking for another job and the idiot owner of this horse should be looking for another way to invest his money like bitcoin or a Nigerian banker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 1, 2019 Author Share Posted September 1, 2019 I notice some have been using Shamus Award the maiden that won the Cox Plate in 2013 as some form of justification for starting Aalaalune in the Tarzino. It isn't a fair comparison and the placement of the horse by Danny O'Brien was done very well when compared to Aalaalune. Breeding: Shamus Award a colt by Snitzel out of a Success Express mare. Snitzel is well known as a sire of precocious horses. Aalaalune a filly by Reliable Man out of a Fastnet Rock mare. Reliable Man progeny seem to take time and like their sire are more likely to be middle distance horses i.e. Derby and Oaks types. 2yr old starts: Shamus Award - one start in the Grp 2 Sires Product in March 2013. Finished 2nd beaten a short neck after being run down late. Aalaalune - 6 starts as a 2 yr old all in NZ stakes races. Best effort was probably her 2nd beaten a short head in the Sistema Stakes Grp1 at Ellerslie runing 1:12 for the 1200m on a Heavy 10. The two horses she shared the finish with Yourdeel and Aretha are yet to race this season. Both look like they will head for the 3yr old classics. 3yr old starts: Shamus Award - 4 starts leading into the Cox Plate win. All against his own age group and stakes races. 2nd in the Stutt Stakes Grp2 at Moonee Valley beaten by a short head and lost a protest against 1st. Run down late. 3rd in the Caufield Guineas Grp1 at the next start. Then went on to win the Cox Plate. There was another 3yr old colt in that race Long John who incidentally had beaten Shamus Award earlier in the season. Two starts later Shamus Award won The Australian Guineas Grp1. Arguably Moonee Valley suited his style of racing - getting to the front early and hanging on tough. Aalaalune - 2 starts so far. First start a maiden 3yr old over 1000m at Ruakaka. Finished second beaten a short neck on a Dead 6 track. The winner of that race started next in the Northland Breeder's Stakes at Ruakaka (same day as the Tarzino) finishing 8th seven lengths from the winner. The 3rd horse from that maiden finished 9th also trained by Rogie. 2nd 3yr old start - WFA Tarzino against hardened horses with form. Going up from 1000m to 1400m...... Is there really a comparison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Good observations and research here by ATA and CS. I hope the connections do the right thing and give Aalaalune a decent spell. She is far better suited to longer trips and perhaps wetter ground in the autumn. She also needs time to mature. However, I expect TR will need no further invitations from the owner(s) to press on to the next hypothetically rich target. Is she in the market for the Windsor Park Plate? By the way, having a nomination for the Cox Plate is not necessarily a great guideline of a horse's ability. sometimes it is a better guideline of the connections' ambitious nature. (Your horses shows some talent and it's all go for the Cox Plate or Melbourne Cup or wotever.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 (edited) To answer my own questions. Aalaalune not nommed for Windsor Park Plate (a relief, hopefully something else more likely to win gets a start). Unbelievably the wallies at the TAB have Aalaalune at $51 to win the Cox Plate. Should be at $551. Edited September 1, 2019 by Weasel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 $5551 and drifting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxie Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 I see on another site where I can't post which should remain nameless are saying that Rogie and the owner can start the horse "where ever they like." Sure they can but the rest of us can point out how daft it is. In OZ the horse wouldn't have got a start in this type of race. Where were our officialdom? I don't blame the owner entirely either - the industry saw him coming just like Don Ha. The horse traders got in quick to fleece some dough out of Te Keeti. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 What a load of rubbish . The horse was quoted at $18 with the bookies- that suggests all at a higher quote should not have got a start Rogerson has been a leading trainer , not just in Australasia but Northern hemisphere as well, winning races like the Cox plate, Melbourne cup etc I don't really rate the horse but they are entitled to race it where and when they like.It had no show when ridden ;upside down'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 Rogie had the horse less than 2 weeks. Not one of his best efforts in my opinion. It is a sign of New Zealand racing that it got a start in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandpiper Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 1/09/2019 at 1:09 PM, Chief Stipe said: Why is it "somewhat rich"? Racing is no different to Sport where we all have opinons. For example your post before the race seemed to rate her better than an $80 shot. Why at one stage she was as low as $18 is anyone's guess. As for Aalaalune being entitled to race in the Tarzino I don't think anyone has denied that the conditions of the race "allowed" her to race. Whether she was "entitled" is another question. The fact that no official has asked "any" questions about her racing before OR after the race is concerning. I would go so far to say that some of the posters on BOAY who have experience with racing horses would say racing her in that particular race was bordering on cruel. I put her up at $80 on the other site. Just thought the anthropomorphism went a bit extreme, she is after all a racehorse and a reasonably decent one at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 23 minutes ago, Sandpiper said: I put her up at $80 on the other site. Just thought the anthropomorphism went a bit extreme, she is after all a racehorse and a reasonably decent one at that. I had to look that word up. anthropomorphism applying human like qualities to animals. I've worked in stables and owned a few horses and I assure you that some do have human like qualities particularly the good ones. I'm also a firm believer that you need to manage the mental side of horses carefully. They are a herd animal and within a herd there is a hierarchy. Good trainers step up incrementally. Aussie trainers are great at it. A few in NZ are. Murray Baker is one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 52 minutes ago, Sandpiper said: I put her up at $80 on the other site. Just thought the anthropomorphism went a bit extreme, she is after all a racehorse and a reasonably decent one at that. At least you showed some common sense. Yet three of the other six had her rated $10.00, $15.00 & $28. . . really!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CrossCodes Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 On 28/08/2019 at 10:04 PM, Weasel said: Rogie has nothing to lose...makes money even if it runs stone motherless last...if it runs above expectations he's a 'genius' and there are ready-made excuses if it fails, which is highly likely. I note Contessa Vanessa ran a very ordinary race fresh-up in the Taranaki mud - just another example of impatience ruining a classy galloper... Sad to see this mare being run into the ground, down to a walk in her race today. Rogerson is losing all credibility as a trainer the way he is flogging and racing his horses these past few years, it is actually quite embarrassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Team Rogerson strike rate going into today 2019/20 3 $119,000 79 0 26.33 that's 79 runners for 3 wins, people and another 5 starters today, I think , no winners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 8, 2019 Author Share Posted September 8, 2019 Meanwhile talented three-year-old Aalaalune will miss the second day at Hastings with the Reliable Man filly having a brief freshen up before commencing a campaign focussed on the New Zealand Bloodstock Filly of the Year series. “We sat down and had a good chat with her owner and we decided to give her a little time off before her next run,” Rogerson said. “She can have a freshen up and then will most likely go to either the Soliloquy Stakes (Gr.3, 1400m) at Ellerslie or the Sarten Memorial (Gr.2, 1400m) at Te Rapa in October. “From there we will concentrate on the Filly of the Year series with the 1000 Guineas (Gr.1, 1600m) at Riccarton her main focus to start with.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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