Nowornever Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 The decision to disqualify Love The Blues from its win today in Race 8 at Invercargill would have to be the worst decision I have seen in a long while and even the commentators were saying they did not see how it could lose the race in the inquiry. https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=272614&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE Yes it ran over the one marker peg that looked like it stuck out too far anyway, but to say it gained an advantage is a long stretch considering it came from six lengths behind the second placed horse at the 100m mark and was still behind the trailing horse after running over the marker. I have seen plenty of examples far worse than this where nothing has happened so what is going on. Have a look at this race from Addington where the second horse actually ran over several markers on the turn and in the straight and gained a clear advantage but held its placing. https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=209033&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE Makes me want to give up all together on harness racing after watching that abortion of a decision today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeYbOaRd WaRrIoR Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 This would have to be close to one of the worst decisions ever. I cant see how love the blues gained an advantage when vintage rose was already 5 lengths in front when it turned for home and love the blues had the leader stopping in front of it. Left surely confused how this horse could get put out. Aren't they allowed to hit at lest one or two marker pegs or has the rule changed? Would have to feel for the connections of love the blues or if you were on at 33s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Maybe if it had been a favourite the result may have not changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatchcock Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Well it’s pretty simple, by going in to the passing lane earlier than was permitted, he gained a momentum advantage that allowed him to get up and win by a nose. If he waited for the passing lane to open up, he would have been a stride or two slower getting going and not won the race. He did, in fact, gain a winning advantage by breaching the the rules. rule states (7B) Where any horse or its sulky wheel moves inside the track marker line and gains an advantage the horse shall be disqualified from that race except where it is established that the breach was caused by interference by another horse or driver. the Stewards and JCA were only applying the rules correctly to protect the interests of punters on Vintage Rose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 29 minutes ago, Spatchcock said: Well it’s pretty simple, by going in to the passing lane earlier than was permitted, he gained a momentum advantage that allowed him to get up and win by a nose. Whether it is right or wrong, I think the margin played a big part in the decision. I agree with Spatch. 8 hours ago, Nowornever said: Have a look at this race from Addington where the second horse actually ran over several markers on the turn and in the straight and gained a clear advantage but held its placing. https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=209033&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE Wasn't an easy target... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 8 hours ago, Nowornever said: The decision to disqualify Love The Blues from its win today in Race 8 at Invercargill would have to be the worst decision I have seen in a long while and even the commentators were saying they did not see how it could lose the race in the inquiry. Only the worst decision ever if you expect consistency, you have to remember there is not any. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taku Umanga Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A3-EqJR_h8&feature=emb_logo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taku Umanga Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Taku Umanga said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A3-EqJR_h8&feature=emb_logo Betcha if it was an amateur, junior or a "nobody", then this horse or it's driver would've been put out .... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 47 minutes ago, Spatchcock said: Well it’s pretty simple, by going in to the passing lane earlier than was permitted, he gained a momentum advantage that allowed him to get up and win by a nose. If he waited for the passing lane to open up, he would have been a stride or two slower getting going and not won the race. He did, in fact, gain a winning advantage by breaching the the rules. rule states (7B) Where any horse or its sulky wheel moves inside the track marker line and gains an advantage the horse shall be disqualified from that race except where it is established that the breach was caused by interference by another horse or driver. the Stewards and JCA were only applying the rules correctly to protect the interests of punters on Vintage Rose. I agree with your view that by entering the passing earlier than permitted it allowed him to get up in the last stride and win. The question is did theJca have the discretion to relegate or was disqualification automatic. if there was no discretion t would seem a rule change may be required to allow it,as disqualification seems out of proportion to the indiscretion committed.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taku Umanga Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, the galah said: I agree with your view that by entering the passing earlier than permitted it allowed him to get up in the last stride and win. The question is did theJca have the discretion to relegate or was disqualification automatic. if there was no discretion t would seem a rule change may be required to allow it,as disqualification seems out of proportion to the indiscretion committed.. Agreed - relegation would've been seen as the fairer decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Don't get me started on these Stewards again after last week in Cromwell. Most of us complain why they don't question drivers/trainers when a hot fav gets beaten and no questions asked or a roughie at 60-1 wins and no questions asked re form reversal. R8 yesterday they questioned Ricky Gutsell after Vintagd Rose won on her form reversal, FFS she was 2/2 in the betting and had run a 2nd/5th and a 10th in a mile race where the winner ran 1.53 in her last 3 starts. Seriously I give up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, the galah said: I agree with your view that by entering the passing earlier than permitted it allowed him to get up in the last stride and win. The question is did theJca have the discretion to relegate or was disqualification automatic. if there was no discretion t would seem a rule change may be required to allow it,as disqualification seems out of proportion to the indiscretion committed.. Some of those rules are so back in the 1800s. Not the only one that needs updating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, Dougie said: Don't get me started on these Stewards again after last week in Cromwell. Most of us complain why they don't question drivers/trainers when a hot fav gets beaten and no questions asked or a roughie at 60-1 wins and no questions asked re form reversal. R8 yesterday they questioned Ricky Gutsell after Vintagd Rose won on her form reversal, FFS she was 2/2 in the betting and had run a 2nd/5th and a 10th in a mile race where the winner ran 1.53 in her last 3 starts. Seriously I give up. Vintage Rose was an absolute cert in that field the way she had been going! Watch her recent runs over 2200m and she was a moral! Was major overs when she opened up but then again every now and again the Bookies do stuff up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) I think a rule that needs changed is the one where a horse is late scratched and the starting positions of horses change. Yesterday Star Ruler went from 2 the second line to 1 the second line moments before the start of the race. Effectively it went from following the 2nd favorite to following a horse of lesser chance. In reality it hindered its chances and punters were mislead. I see the stipes asked the question of tetrick driven by the punters friend(not), mr Mclellan. The thing is they asked why the improved performance,but not why the changed tactics. Anyone watching this horse has seen it driven with a sit for what seems forever. I've watched this horse driven that way so many times and have always been convinced that the horse has got that used to being driven that way that It simply knows it doesn't have to try. If punters knew Mr mclellan was going to drive it in a way to give it a chance it would have been paying half what it did. Should he not have been asked why he was trying yesterday? Edited January 9, 2020 by the galah 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Interesting reading the washup from the last at the greymouth gallops, one late scratched and the other deemed a starter, even though the late scratched one had his head in the barrier of the one deemed a starter, jockey stated it did effect his chances, didn't look good and no help to the punter, just maybe they were in a hurry to get home being the last race. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taku Umanga Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 How is this any different: CHECK IN - contacted several marker pegs rounding the home turn when held up for clear running. Held 2nd in a Group 2 race ..... I guess it depends on what your name is? https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=273055&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljay Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Contacted - or run inside them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljay Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 A small problem with Cambridge track too is that the passing lane because it starts a little down the straight gives an advantage to the swoopers out wide coming down the banking before those waiting for the inside run can pop down into the lane and get back to full speed if horse in front of them is gasping. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 On 12/01/2020 at 12:00 PM, Taku Umanga said: How is this any different: CHECK IN - contacted several marker pegs rounding the home turn when held up for clear running. Held 2nd in a Group 2 race ..... I guess it depends on what your name is? https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=273055&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE Check In went inside one marker peg (barely) by the look of it. Compare it to Bright Glow who got biffed from 4th (about 2 lengths ahead of 5th) to being disqualified for going inside the markers for a distance but when you look at it, Bright Glow hit a few markers and went inside 2 (barely) https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=272548&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE On 10/01/2020 at 12:16 AM, Nowornever said: Makes me want to give up all together on harness racing after watching that abortion of a decision today. So the new standard seems to be if you go inside a marker peg you are out. Good to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 On 12/01/2020 at 12:00 PM, Taku Umanga said: How is this any different: CHECK IN - contacted several marker pegs rounding the home turn when held up for clear running. Held 2nd in a Group 2 race ..... I guess it depends on what your name is? https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=273055&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE or this on Sunday. COWGIRLS N ANGELS - held up rounding the final turn and raced over the marker peg at the entrance to the passing lane. Authorisation of this runner's second placing was withheld to enable Stewards to review the replays to ascertain whether there were grounds for Protest. After viewing the replays Stewards were satisfied that an advantage had not been gained and placings were duly authorised. Junior Driver L Whittaker, assisted by S Phelan, admitted an associated charge under Rule 869(7A)(a)(b). After hearing submissions on penalty the JCA imposed a fine of $150.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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