The Diceman's Been Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Does this joint come with a "ticker chamber", "daily will to win infusions" or a lockdown on KFC delivery? No.....???? Then Warriors = rooted 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 1 minute ago, The Diceman's Been said: Does this joint come with a "ticker chamber", "daily will to win infusions" or a lockdown on KFC delivery? No.....???? Then Warriors = rooted All sorted. They've been told if they don't perform they will be sent home to mum in South Auckland. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) Getting away from the woeful Warriors....if we assume that the Guineas, once gone, won't return, will it stuff the Cup Carnival? Ive had this rattling round my head all morning, and, to be fair, the support from the south has been underwhelming for years. Will the crowds that attend on Cup day give a toss ? I don't think so. Yes, it will affect fields; less likely to have lower level horses coming down to support their better stablemates, but that may well lead to better opportunities for other lesser lights. I dunno...I guess I'm trying to find a positive in all this. Wailing about things sure ain't gonna work. The opportunity exists to look outside the square, create series racing with a final to be held..? Come in Aaron Bidlake, you can expand on this. Edited April 18, 2020 by Freda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Freda said: Getting away from the woeful Warriors....if we assume that the Guineas, once gone, won't return, will it stuff the Cup Carnival? For me - YES. 4 minutes ago, Freda said: Will the crowds that attend on Cup day give a toss ? I don't think so. No not to the piss heads, wannabes, and good looking women in fuck all (it's hard betting on these days....looking at the horses that is! That's a double double entendre!). BUT for the enthusiasts that travel from all over New Zealand - YES it will fuck it. If Reefton feels the same as me we'll go stuff it we've finally been totally gelded. DON'T bring Covid-19 into the argument because that will impact regardless of where the races are. Think about history and tradition. There are still heaps of people that see Cup Week as the peak of racing enjoyment in NZ. I would bet my last donut that I could take a group of young folk on a Cup week tour and they would be addicted to racing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, Freda said: I dunno...I guess I'm trying to find a positive in all this. Wailing about things sure ain't gonna work. We are not Wailing! We are standing up for what we believe! Don't let them get away with it! Can you imagine what would happen in Melbourne if their Cup was transferred from Flemington to Rosehill? The magnitude of the comparison is the SAME! Put a stake in the ground and fight for it! Dream Freda that you finally have got that super 3 yr old! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopia Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 29 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: We are not Wailing! We are standing up for what we believe! Don't let them get away with it! Can you imagine what would happen in Melbourne if their Cup was transferred from Flemington to Rosehill? The magnitude of the comparison is the SAME! Put a stake in the ground and fight for it! Dream Freda that you finally have got that super 3 yr old! Good idea Chief..we might as well all join rita and bernie and become fucking dreamers, because thats what they are. Why do you think releasing the 'calendar' was necessary? Cos there aint any dough, clearly. The racing industry better hope that winnie tied one hell of a deal down with the other coalition losers after the election otherwise nz will be racing for fuck all, and you can quote me one that!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 35 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: We are not Wailing! We are standing up for what we believe! Don't let them get away with it! Can you imagine what would happen in Melbourne if their Cup was transferred from Flemington to Rosehill? The magnitude of the comparison is the SAME! Put a stake in the ground and fight for it! Dream Freda that you finally have got that super 3 yr old! Yeah..all that. But, whom do we 'fight' ? because NZTR will bend over for the big breeders and high profile stables like they always have. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 40 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: For me - YES. No not to the piss heads, wannabes, and good looking women in fuck all (it's hard betting on these days....looking at the horses that is! That's a double double entendre!). BUT for the enthusiasts that travel from all over New Zealand - YES it will fuck it. If Reefton feels the same as me we'll go stuff it we've finally been totally gelded. DON'T bring Covid-19 into the argument because that will impact regardless of where the races are. Think about history and tradition. There are still heaps of people that see Cup Week as the peak of racing enjoyment in NZ. I would bet my last donut that I could take a group of young folk on a Cup week tour and they would be addicted to racing! Exactly. There will still be plenty who want the Cup week experience. It will matter little to them if the Guineas are here or not. That's my point. It will be a body blow indeed for all of us who love to see a good horse, and who remember when Riccarton hosted Derby and Oaks...but times do change and so do demographics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 40 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: We are not Wailing! We are standing up for what we believe! Don't let them get away with it! Can you imagine what would happen in Melbourne if their Cup was transferred from Flemington to Rosehill? The magnitude of the comparison is the SAME! Put a stake in the ground and fight for it! Dream Freda that you finally have got that super 3 yr old! And....if I was fortunate enough to have a super anything...it would be off to Aus. And that's not a recent thought, I've had enough of these patronising, greedy bastards ripping off our owners every time they look around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Freda said: Exactly. There will still be plenty who want the Cup week experience. It will matter little to them if the Guineas are here or not. That's my point. It will be a body blow indeed for all of us who love to see a good horse, and who remember when Riccarton hosted Derby and Oaks...but times do change and so do demographics. Na I disagree Freda you are buying into the marketing bullshit and spin we get delivered. Marketing is about connecting the dots and providing reference points. We can't afford to overlook any part of our population if we are trying to attract new participants to the industry. Many people have their first experience Cup week. Look back at the winners of the 2000 Guineas and what they went onto. The people who remember their day at the Guineas are largely not the people who remember their day at the Derby and vice versa. If you look closely at the demographics they haven't changed that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Na I disagree Freda you are buying into the marketing bullshit and spin we get delivered. Marketing is about connecting the dots and providing reference points. We can't afford to overlook any part of our population if we are trying to attract new participants to the industry. Many people have their first experience Cup week. Look back at the winners of the 2000 Guineas and what they went onto. The people who remember their day at the Guineas are largely not the people who remember their day at the Derby and vice versa. If you look closely at the demographics they haven't changed that much. Well, with the utmost respect, I disagree too. I'm not buying into anything. But if I took a group of newbies to Cup week the significance of Guineas - or any classic - would be lost on them. But I betya they would want a bet in the Cup, whether they knew which end of a horse kicked or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 Yep. If there's an office sweepstake, it's on the Cup, not the Guineas. They could care less. They can run a couple of Canterbury Guineas races instead. Not a biggie for mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Well two of provincial racing's stalwarts don't give a stuff about the Guineas being ripped north. You two may as well hang your bridles on the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopia Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Freda said: And....if I was fortunate enough to have a super anything...it would be off to Aus. And that's not a recent thought, I've had enough of these patronising, greedy bastards ripping off our owners every time they look around. Well said mate. It's extremely competitive over here, especially in Sydney. But at least you'll get a ' fair crack of the sav'...not like in NZ where the little minds rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 52 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Well two of provincial racing's stalwarts don't give a stuff about the Guineas being ripped north. You two may as well hang your bridles on the wall. That's an excellent example of the parochial thinking that has helped us get where we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Freda said: And....if I was fortunate enough to have a super anything...it would be off to Aus. And that's not a recent thought, I've had enough of these patronising, greedy bastards ripping off our owners every time they look around. Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitman Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 I think it’s disgraceful the Guineas races are being Considered to shift north 7 months out from Cup Week The fact that Northen trained horses dominate is one reason. Does that give CJC AN ARGUMENT for THE stewards to Be upgraded to Gp 1 taking over the Telegraph??! Has any race shaped the NZ breeding industry more than the 2000 Guineas some of NZ’s most successful home grown stallions have won the Guineas, Balmerino, Vice Regal, Uncle Remus, Little Brown Jug, Sir Avon, Kingdom Bay, Random Chance, Krona, Danske, Kings Chapel, Darci Brahma, Jimmy Choux, Rock ‘n’ Pop, Sacred Falls, Atlante, Turn Me Loose, Xtravagant The trip south didn’t harm their careers Perhaps a date later in the season would be more appropriate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Diceman's Been Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Fair point Michael, but you would have to agree that the celebrations in the Racecourse pub has dented many a northern trainer's reputation for being able to handle the juice during cup week. There is no question it is the trainer's wives leading the charge to have the races moved north so they can keep an eye on their men. Debauchery, recalcitrant, raunchy and impish. Further proof that crossing north island stallions with south island mares leads to heartache. Sorry mate, cup week is well and truly rooted for sure and certain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitman Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 The best weeks racing for all three codes in Australasia should be protected, not decimated. But given how this industry has been run in recent years am I surprised?. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it comes to mind here, it’s 7 months to Cup Week FFS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Diceman's Been Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) You make a very good case for the defense. You could always take up being a barrister when this all turns to custard. As an aside, how many ex jockeys were conceived during cup week, do ya reckon? Edited April 18, 2020 by The Diceman's Been 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 6 hours ago, Pitman said: I think it’s disgraceful the Guineas races are being Considered to shift north 7 months out from Cup Week I agree. I don't see why they would move them this year. Seems a bit of a knee jerk reaction. If they are to be moved, it should be as part of a comprehensive review of programming and the pattern race structure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) My comments earlier shouldn't be taken to indicate support for moving the Guineas. Not at all. But the northetn push for moving has been going on for years. Industry apathy has given us two bodies that have led us to this point - NZRB and NZTR. All the dissension and debate over several years has achieved squat. Nothing. Even the Messara report, touted as being our saviour, has achieved - nothing. So, what can we, as locals, to do change this? Unless we can change the governing structure that manages us, we are powerless. We have given them that power. When the old Racing Conference became what we have today, local interests became subsumed into the whole. Most thought that was needed....but evidence since hasn't been supportive of that. Probably the quality of personnel have a fair bit to do with this...don't forget, Pitty, you told me recently that we ' have to have faith that they know what they are doing ' ....well, I don't, and they don't either. While stakemoney is likely to be curtailed - the extent of this yet to be revealed - it makes no sense at all to blither on about moving this or that, or speculating on the shape of things until we know what the Govt intends, and what MPI and the DIA are planning. Just shows, yet again, the inadequacy of our heads, if they can make blanket pronouncements without sufficient facts. Equally, for us to discuss options in the face of a possible body blow doesn't indicate assent. The Cup Carnival must be protected, but how to do that will involve a good bit of brainstorming if the heirarchy is determined to destroy it. Edited April 18, 2020 by Freda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 13 hours ago, curious said: That's an excellent example of the parochial thinking that has helped us get where we are. I sense a hint of sarcasm in your posting. It isn't parochialism it is called niche marketing. How does the moving of the Guineas north help the industry? If you are not being sarcastic please explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 9 hours ago, The Diceman's Been said: Debauchery, recalcitrant, raunchy and impish. Further proof that crossing north island stallions with south island mares leads to heartache. Well that can't continue can it. I mean how do you do those things when you have to maintain social distancing? Those north island stallions may have high virility but 2 metres? That's a bit of a stretch even for them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Freda said: So, what can we, as locals, to do change this? Get on the phone. Organise the local trainers. If the majority of them said they would boycott the Cup meeting what would they do then? Lobby your local MP's. Fight them on the beaches, the hills, the fields, the stables, the tracks - never surrender! I think with a targeted Social Media campaign you would be surprised what support you would garner from across the country. Part of my racing heart died when the Westland Racing Club was shafted. Another part will die if the philistines and the faceless bureaucrats start pulling Cup week apart. DON'T get hooked into - "oh well there are bigger more important things to worry about at the moment." Fight close to home - put up resistance. Actively manage those things that you can - believe me you can do a lot more locally than you think you can. If you fight for things that are important to you you'll find they are important to others as well. If you don't then we will end up with some amorphous central government telling us what we can and can't do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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