Kumara

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, Tesio said:

.punters don't want to bet on those tracks

Punters don't want to bet on AWT'S but we are going to have a significant proportion of our total races racing on them!

[Tesio]

2 minutes ago, nomates said:

Wow is that you backing your argument , giving me a one off scenario , fuck me that's why we should be worried , you giving me as much confidence as the ones with the power to actually implement what you are suggesting .

GIVE ME SOMETHING SUBSTANTIAL .

You have nothing , just a piss poor opinion , i'm done with you .

Nomates......you just claims your small clubs off course turnover often punch’s above the big clubs......I’m telling you it doesn’t....used example Westland was 1/2 the national average. That’s not 1/2 the big clubs... its .1/2 the national average.....now you throw your toys......

[Tesio]

5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

But what were their costs to the industry?  You quoted they paid out $91k in stakes - at what cost?

FFS the TAB is spending $80 million a year on a broadcasting platform that is overkill for our needs and a Fixed Odds Platform that hasn't delivered anything but problems.  

Both have generated ZERO extra revenue.

The cost to the industry....let’s keep with our Westland example....if that Westland Race meeting was held at say Timaru (which I believe should stay open) or Ashburton or Riccarton , etc would the Off Course turnover achieved industry average? Prob yes....and  that’s before we even look at export turnover..... That is the cost......I mentioned it a few days ago...Opportunity Cost.

Totally agree with you on the platform!

[Tesio]

27 minutes ago, nomates said:

Your opinion , give me figures , it's your argument for fucks sake .

Are you really that stupid Nomates.......turnover figures and horse number figures on those tracks/clubs/days in question say it all....less punters and less owners......what more FIGURES do you need.

[mardigras]

48 minutes ago, nomates said:

I don't honestly know , but it will be well above the cost of holding the meeting ,

I don't believe that is the case. I don't think any race meetings make money for the industry, they may make some for themselves. But NZ race meetings are all run at a loss, and propped up by the revenues of sport, pokies and off-shore racing.

The losses are however, significantly less for the industry/low tiered days than they are for any premier or iconic racedays which are massive losers.

[mardigras]

36 minutes ago, Tesio said:

And yet i explain AGAIN......let me put it in very simply words......punters don't want to bet on those tracks and owners don’t want to continually travel their horses around the country to those tracks.

They bet on them a heck of a lot more per $ of industry cost than they do on the likes of Ellerslie.

[mardigras]

33 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Punters don't want to bet on AWT'S but we are going to have a significant proportion of our total races racing on them!

On what basis is that claim. They certainly have no problem betting on them in Victoria.

[Tesio]

30 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Punters don't want to bet on AWT'S but we are going to have a significant proportion of our total races racing on them!

I’m not sure how that will pan out, but it may not be as bad as we think....Time will tell i guess.

 I dont have the  exact number but i think there is about 50 - 60 race meeting a year in the Sth Island......if 10 of those are on AWT, will be interesting how that balances out vs the past small turnover race meets?

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, mardigras said:

On what basis is that claim. They certainly have no problem betting on them in Victoria.

Is that why Victoria Racing is restricting the number of them?

Of course Mardigras you will have comparative figures to disprove.

[curious]

1 hour ago, nomates said:

I don't honestly know , but it will be well above the cost of holding the meeting , they certainly wont be costing the industry money , most races at smaller meetings are 10k , and their off course turnovers often punch well above the big clubs , but they make revenue for the industry . That's their job .

 

 

Don't think so. They probably cost the industry less but as far as I know no clubs or racedays cover their costs anymore from wagering on those meetings, let alone prop up any others.

[mardigras]

24 minutes ago, Tesio said:

The cost to the industry....let’s keep with our Westland example....if that Westland Race meeting was held at say Timaru (which I believe should stay open) or Ashburton or Riccarton , etc would the Off Course turnover achieved industry average? Prob yes....and  that’s before we even look at export turnover..... That is the cost......I mentioned it a few days ago...Opportunity Cost.

I doubt there would be any significant difference. If you are providing the same funding to the clubs for running the meeting and the same stakes for the races, I doubt you'd see any punting difference, long term. Export turnover contributes peanuts. Hardly even worth mentioning.

[curious]

12 minutes ago, Tesio said:

Are you really that stupid Nomates.......turnover figures and horse number figures on those tracks/clubs/days in question say it all....less punters and less owners......what more FIGURES do you need.

Net revenue numbers. You don't have them cos they just don't exist as mardigras points out.

 

[Tesio]

3 minutes ago, mardigras said:

I doubt there would be any significant difference. If you are providing the same funding to the clubs for running the meeting and the same stakes for the races, I doubt you'd see any punting difference, long term. Export turnover contributes peanuts. Hardly even worth mentioning.

So you are telling me there is no difference in turnover for a race meeting with with same stakes at Westland v Ashburton?

[mardigras]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

Is that why Victoria Racing is restricting the number of them?

Of course Mardigras you will have comparative figures to disprove.

I don't get the point of suggesting punters don't bet on them in relation to restricting them. I would have expected the number of meetings to be based around demand. That is not indefinite. So therefore yes, I would be limiting them in some fashion also.

The issue is many make claims that they don't bet on them. They attract the same level of betting for a comparable level of meeting held on the turf. And yes, I have the figures and the figures agree with that.

I'm not debating whether NZ should have all weather - I'm merely pointing out that many opposing them are using flawed arguments against them, such as turnover alone. I'd be more inclined to oppose them based on costs versus benefits. I'd expect the turnover from meetings on AWT would reach the levels of a similar level of turf meeting.

[curious]

I agree. Can't see any argument or evidence to suggest that AWT turnover won't be similar to turf turnover for the same level of meeting. Not sure where that idea comes from.

[mardigras]

1 minute ago, Tesio said:

So you are telling me there is no difference in turnover for a race meeting with with same stakes at Westland v Ashburton?

Not in the long term. No.

[mardigras]

21 minutes ago, Tesio said:

So you are telling me there is no difference in turnover for a race meeting with with same stakes at Westland v Ashburton?

From the most recent NZTR figures.

[mardigras]

10 minutes ago, mardigras said:

From the most recent NZTR figures.

Throw in ARC and it's not hard to see where an excess of industry money goes.

Punters in NZ don't give a toss about premier versus non premier, or tiered racing. Betting more relates to day of week than anything.

Anyone would think if they ran 200 racedays at Ellerslie, punting revenue would go up. Yeah, sure.

Edited November 30, 2020 by mardigras

[Tesio]

5 minutes ago, mardigras said:

From the most recent NZTR figures.

Your not comparing apples with apples Mardigras.

Same race meeting (different location to Westland) with same stakes - Turnover impact? 

[Freda]

I wouldn't mind a racehorse with your attitude, T....you keep hanging tough even though you can't win.

[mardigras]

2 minutes ago, Tesio said:

Your not comparing apples with apples Mardigras.

Same race meeting (different location to Westland) with same stakes - Turnover impact? 

What do you mean. You stated Ashburton versus Westland? How am I going to find a meeting the same as Westland somewhere else on the same day?

I know I'm not comparing apples with apples. If I actually did, I think Westland would come out ahead.

[mardigras]

12 minutes ago, Tesio said:

Your not comparing apples with apples Mardigras.

Same race meeting (different location to Westland) with same stakes - Turnover impact? 

And since you are suggesting the same meeting at Ashburton would do better than at Westland, show us how you've come to that conclusion. 

[curious]

12 minutes ago, Freda said:

I wouldn't mind a racehorse with your attitude, T....you keep hanging tough even though you can't win.

I'm looking for one of those and a trainer with the same attitude.

 

[curious]

21 minutes ago, mardigras said:

Throw in ARC and it's not hard to see where an excess of industry money goes.

Punters in NZ don't give a toss about premier versus non premier, or tiered racing. Betting more relates to day of week than anything.

Anyone would think if they ran 200 racedays at Ellerslie, punting revenue would go up. Yeah, sure.

Oh cripes. That Ellerslie figure is a shocker. FFS sell it up before any more damage is done.

[Tesio]

33 minutes ago, mardigras said:

Punters in NZ don't give a toss about premier versus non premier, or tiered racing.

Maybe I’m not a normal punter.....but i would prefer to bet on premier and higher tiered racing (better horse quality) v  ave industry day (often 7 horse field in the mud)