Why does Opee Bosson feel the need to CHEAT?

[nomates]

3 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Racing will suffer. punters will back other sports . 

I'm not sure the betting reaction would be that bad , punters would just have to adjust the form looking for horses that are more geniune and not requiring whipping . 

I am of the school of thought that moderating how the whip is used is the best way forward , limit the number of strikes in a race , say no more than 6 , with a limit of 2 at any one time in any given furlong , with only 2 allowed  behind the saddle , the rest on the shoulder .

Not perfect for any one but workable , it's not going to work for the bludgers , and as if CS says it's reactionary then even the above will be more than required for the geniune ones .

And if people think that disqualification is too much for overuse then substantially greater fines , as in greater than the stake won , will get them thinking twice or ten times before " cheating ".

[Thomass]

On 22/03/2021 at 4:50 PM, Chief Stipe said:

Why make an issue out of it?  You talk about the "public making an issue of it" but who are the "public"?  It isn't a very big group.

It isn't an issue unless racing makes it an issue.

FFS wake up these anti people don't want racing full stop.

I wish some of these horses could talk and be interviewed.  They love racing!  It is in their DNA.

Any 'idea' you have about horse psychology was totally expunged when you 'thought' horse breakers were to blame for Blinker Applications

MR ED would laugh in your face

[Chief Stipe]

Just now, Thomass said:

Any 'idea' you have about horse psychology was totally expunged when you 'thought' horse breakers were to blame for Blinker Applications

MR ED would laugh in your face

Really Thomarse?  You have proven time and time again that you haven't a clue about horse physiology/psychology and even less about successful punting.

In fact if anyone has bothered to follow your posts over the years they will have noticed that you keep posting the same shyte ad infinitum.  Hell you are still banging on about a H11 at Whanganui from five years ago and even worse Trainer or Jockey rap sheets from the turn of the Century!

[Thomass]

8 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Really Thomarse?  You have proven time and time again that you haven't a clue about horse physiology/psychology and even less about successful punting.

In fact if anyone has bothered to follow your posts over the years they will have noticed that you keep posting the same shyte ad infinitum.  Hell you are still banging on about a H11 at Whanganui from five years ago and even worse Trainer or Jockey rap sheets from the turn of the Century!

Yes relly relly...

When Cheating Opee smashed AMAREALINHA 23 times leaving WELTS he was also laughing that the other Jocks were obeying THE RULES...ok?

 

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, Thomass said:

When Cheating Opee smashed AMAREALINHA 23 times leaving WELTS he was also laughing that the other Jocks were obeying THE RULES...ok?

But you still haven't given us your erudite cogent analysis on how Bosson's actions actually changed the result.

Nor do you know what strikes caused the alleged (we only have your photos hope pic as evidence) welts.  The "legal" ones in the final 100m?

It didn't seem to "hurt" Amarelinha either physically or psychologically given her dominant performance over 2400m in the NZ Oaks.  The last 3 200m sectionals in a tick over 11 seconds each.

[Thomass]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

But you still haven't given us your erudite cogent analysis on how Bosson's actions actually changed the result.

Nor do you know what strikes caused the alleged (we only have your photos hope pic as evidence) welts.  The "legal" ones in the final 100m?

It didn't seem to "hurt" Amarelinha either physically or psychologically given her dominant performance over 2400m in the NZ Oaks.  The last 3 200m sectionals in a tick over 11 seconds each.

We've been through this before...are you deaf?

BTW it's ILLEGAL to leave WELTS...ok?

But the HOPELESS RIU were never going to question their Favourite son...or their fav Orange Army...they're shit scared of big Davo...

...hell they even encouraged him into the JCA room so he could lie about "an inexperienced apprentice" creating mayhem...

...when she was a Senior Jockey

Heres the head on Video Nasty of CHEATING OPEE cheating and absolutely giving it to a filly...leaving welts...

...and the Stockholm Syndrome she's now developed

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Thomass

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, Thomass said:

BTW it's ILLEGAL to leave WELTS...ok?

For the benefit of our readers can you provide the exact rule that says "it is illegal to leave welts" and what the penalties are?

Have you filed an information based on your Photoshop picture evidence?   Geez even the RIU are not THAT stupid but if you are so passionate (obsessed?) about this issue surely you will have done that.

[Thomass]

Rule 638(3) A Rider shall not: [...] (b) strike a horse with a whip in a manner or to an extent which is:

1. i  (i) unnecessary, or

2. ii  (ii) excessive, or

3. iii  (iii) improper 

4. 1. vii  (vii) causing injury to the horse.

   Let me tell you.....a WELT is an injury ...ok?

   No photoshop...AMAREALINHA straight after being unsaddled

    

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Thomass said:

1. vii  (vii) causing injury to the horse.

Let me tell you.....a WELT is an injury ...ok?

No photoshop...AMAREALINHA straight after being unsaddled

 

Why don't you scan a photo to include where the saddle was and include the welts in the same frame?

I bet you won't notice any difference.

While you are at it can you do the same for the second and third horse?  Just to be fair and to show that you are not being selective in your scrutiny.  I'd do it but I haven't recorded that day's racing like you have.

[Horace]

6 hours ago, Thomass said:

Rule 638(3) A Rider shall not: [...] (b) strike a horse with a whip in a manner or to an extent which is:

1. i  (i) unnecessary, or

2. ii  (ii) excessive, or

3. iii  (iii) improper 

4. 1. vii  (vii) causing injury to the horse.

   Let me tell you.....a WELT is an injury ...ok?

   No photoshop...AMAREALINHA straight after being unsaddled

    

 

[Chief Stipe]

Your point Horace?

[Horace]

On 3/24/2021 at 9:29 AM, Thomass said:

Yes relly relly...

When Cheating Opee smashed AMAREALINHA 23 times leaving WELTS he was also laughing that the other Jocks were obeying THE RULES...ok?

 

Of course you're correct Thomas. I'm astounded to think that anyone who posts here believes that a horse won't feel pain after being thrashed to the extent that weals are so obvious. It's arrant nonsense to say so. 

What do these people think would happen if someone walking a dog on a lead suddenly pulled out a 'weapon'..i.e. whip...and thrashed the dog in public view? Because it misbehaved.. How long would they last as animal owners and would they face consequences? ..or children who misbehaved? And so why don't horses have the same protection? Just because they are 'expected' to perform to the 'owners' satisfaction..does that give anyone the authority to belt them and cause weals and draw blood? Yes, I've seen blood on horses after races, and only caused by whips.

To take the matter further, if these apologists for horsepeople feel that it's ok to thrash horses and cause pain during and after races..why stop there? Why not use metal whips? Sharpened spurs? Jiggers? could this be justified on the basis that ' we want to get the best out of the horse'?  don't think so.

I've stated before there is a place for very limited whip useage in racing-but not to the extent that it harms horses. It would be limited to a short number of strikes throughout a race-its up to the rider to determine when to use it. And transgressors must be protested against if they fill a dividend bearing position..lets see how often that rule would be used if it came in? Bugger all in my opinion. Start taking races off connections and they'll soon sort out the rider they want on their horse/s.

And Opie..? I'm surprised that a rider of such quality needs to do this to horses. If there were no whips in races and horses won due to the riders capability and horsemanship...Opie would still be Numero Uno in my book.

 

[Gammalite]

18 minutes ago, Horace said:

To take the matter further, if these apologists for horsepeople feel that it's ok to thrash horses and cause pain during and after races..

 

18 minutes ago, Horace said:

I've stated before there is a place for very limited whip useage in racing-but not to the extent that it harms horses.

Such a hypocritical response Horace.

So carry on about the Pain, Welts, thrashing BUT approve Limited Whip. lol..... at least Thomass wants to ban it.

OK for a Jockey to whack 5 times ?  Doesn't that leave Welts ? Of course it can. 

Your arguement says LIMITED use doesn't harm the horse, but 'The Opie ride' for example did ?

People and Jockeys aren't Monsters! welfare of horses is paramount to those in the racing industry.  Whips have been inspected for decades. All clear wasn't given Until a steward went on the track and Literally felt up and down the drivers whip in case something not legal in use. The padded whips these days are designed in a way to be not as harsh as previous models. 

A horse is a pretty tough animal Horace. they CANNOT differentiate between 5 strikes or 10. Isn't one strike on your dog or child examples too much? Are you fighting for Horse Welfare or Not?  you say they're in pain . this whole arguement is a pain. but limited use ok?. hypocrisy.

 

[Chief Stipe]

41 minutes ago, Horace said:

Yes, I've seen blood on horses after races, and only caused by whips.

When and where?  Did you do anything about it?  

[Horace]

33 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

 

Such a hypocritical response Horace.

So carry on about the Pain, Welts, thrashing BUT approve Limited Whip. lol..... at least Thomass wants to ban it.

OK for a Jockey to whack 5 times ?  Doesn't that leave Welts ? Of course it can. 

Your arguement says LIMITED use doesn't harm the horse, but 'The Opie ride' for example did ?

People and Jockeys aren't Monsters! welfare of horses is paramount to those in the racing industry.  Whips have been inspected for decades. All clear wasn't given Until a steward went on the track and Literally felt up and down the drivers whip in case something not legal in use. The padded whips these days are designed in a way to be not as harsh as previous models. 

A horse is a pretty tough animal Horace. they CANNOT differentiate between 5 strikes or 10. Isn't one strike on your dog or child examples too much? Are you fighting for Horse Welfare or Not?  you say they're in pain . this whole arguement is a pain. but limited use ok?. hypocrisy.

 

'Limited' in number, severity, strength used...I thought that would be self-explanatory. However if I have to spell it out..again..' limited use' is a transition step between the present bash at all costs, and no whips. But if you guys want to carry on with the status quo then go  for it. When the industry finally sees the light and takes some serious measures to combat/stop whip use... don't ask ' what the feck happenned'? 

[Gammalite]

7 hours ago, Thomass said:

1. vii  (vii) causing injury to the horse.

Let me tell you.....a WELT is an injury

Well a food allergy or an insect bite causes welts as well. You could call it injury if you want, but more of a skin reaction. I remember Stewards often inspecting horses rumps to ascertain whether any 'welts' or  ('Blood?, which Horace said he has seen , would be barbaric, but myself never seen that) was present.

To their credit , and yours to , They are ALWAYS concerned for Horse welfare. Surely , surely, surely the whip supplied is Padded and designed to not cause Any harm to the animal. (like a Boxer wears Padded gloves and can smack you in the face) a horse bit tougher than a boxer.

You and Horace think every horse in Pain and harm ??  THAT is BAD , and I would fully agree only solution is throw it away if that was the case. (No good limiting use as is current Horace) no matter how you spell it out.

My protest is about this Stupid number the Rules bandy about. 

7 minutes ago, Horace said:

1. vii  (vii) causing injury to the horse.

Let me tell you.....a WELT is an injury

 . Why is a Horse not harmed or in pain at the 100m mark ? ??  Same for all horses and jockeys. not by number.

 

[Gammalite]

33 minutes ago, Horace said:

Limited' in number, severity, strength used...I thought that would be self-explanatory.

Exactly my argument !! thank you Horace. Currently this thread about Opie cheating via number, and Currently horses being 'Harmed' with welts and drawing Blood ?you said with severity and strength.

HOW is a horse with a 'Strong' jockey giving it 5 'Welts' (and all the pain that goes with it apparently), before the 100m mark, NOT any worse off than a horse with the Opie whip strikes.?

answer/ It's not any better off at All. ............But the jockey is Not called a Cheat lol....... silliness prevails. 

 

[Freda]

Sigh....this is getting tedious  ...I have seen sensitive fillies curl up if struck with a whip- especially in the flank which seems so popular now.

And, a genuine horse, giving its all, is just as likely to start stopping as keep trying when such an insult is applied. 

Limit the use overall and leave it to the jocks to decide when - or if - to use it.

 

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, Freda said:

Limit the use overall and leave it to the jocks to decide when - or if - to use it.

Exactly does anyone really think that one of our top Jocks would whip a horse unless he thought he could get a bit more put of it?  There didn't seem to be any damage done when you look at the result in the next race the NZ Oaks!

[MarkyMark]

thomas, ive never been involved with harness other than the odd bet, and had the odd dealings with a few trainers, but i have no skin in that game, just thoroughbreds.

some of you are showing just how little you know.

Horace, can you cite the example by naming the horse or jockey in question? because it would take an almighty effort to draw blood from a horse with the whip.

Chief, I strongly disagree with this forum and the continued implication Opie is a cheat by a couple on here.  It is unfounded, and unfair.

Yes Opie may have struck his mount more than the allowed amount, but this doesnt make him a cheat, I know Opie, as do many others on here, ffs dont allow this absolute fuckwit to keep this shit going.  

I am starting to take real issue with this site, and the mis information, and the fabrication of information by Thomass, is poorly representing its participants and this industry.  You must surely question the benefit of having this idiot on here.  You are allowing this absolute buffoon to make your site look foolish, and this looses all credibility with the absolute nonsense you allow this person to post.  

What if, people actually believe his ramblings, how are you and your site doing a service to this industry, by allowing him to submit information on this website that is factually incorrect and derogatory to this industry and its participants.

 

[Chief Stipe]

56 minutes ago, MarkyMark said:

Chief, I strongly disagree with this forum and the continued implication Opie is a cheat by a couple on here.  It is unfounded, and unfair.

It is only as you say "a couple on here" that are labelling Bosson a cheat.  That's their opinion and I would argue an opinion without foundation.  But then that is only MY opinion.

56 minutes ago, MarkyMark said:

ffs dont allow this absolute fuckwit to keep this shit going.  

Don't you think that the more rope "this absolute fuckwit" is given the more of an absolute fuckwit he looks?

56 minutes ago, MarkyMark said:

I am starting to take real issue with this site, and the mis information, and the fabrication of information by Thomass, is poorly representing its participants and this industry.  You must surely question the benefit of having this idiot on here.  You are allowing this absolute buffoon to make your site look foolish, and this looses all credibility with the absolute nonsense you allow this person to post. 

Because I allow Thomarse online oxygen to express his views doesn't mean that I or BOAY agree with his views.  However he is entitled to express his views no matter how strange and off the mark they are.  Such is the nature of conversation in a democracy.

56 minutes ago, MarkyMark said:

What if, people actually believe his ramblings, how are you and your site doing a service to this industry, by allowing him to submit information on this website that is factually incorrect and derogatory to this industry and its participants.

Unfortunately there are people who do believe his ramblings regardless of where he expresses them.  As I have pointed out many times I don't believe he actually has an interest in Thoroughbred racing continuing.  However he is representative of a minority that shout out loud.  It is up to people like you and I to challenge and disprove his bullshit nonsense.

[Gammalite]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

Sigh....this is getting tedious  ...I have seen sensitive fillies curl up if struck with a whip- especially in the flank which seems so popular now.

And, a genuine horse, giving its all, is just as likely to start stopping as keep trying when such an insult is applied. 

Limit the use overall and leave it to the jocks to decide when - or if - to use it.

 

Better with no Whip then.

Sorry about the tedium , but is a VERY very relevant and Current topic. (most important) AND will continue.

Your last sentence 'rings true' with the Opie ride. He knew exactly how much to use it and get the win in that feature race. he is very experienced.  Sensational judgement and worthy of praise. Great win it was.

I have chipped in, as is concerning that Thomass and Horace want to go on the Horse Injured routine. I , and am very sure you, and all the readers would like to think these champion jockeys are Not trying to injure a horse.

IF so, BAN WHIPS IMMEADIATELY. 25 years of race driving and vet assistant duties for me, and NOT ONCE have I had to treat a Whip Injury ?  Is nice to think the horses welfare is protected by Stewards , Trainers, Jockeys , everyone.

A jockey whipping 5 times is exactly the same TO THE HORSE as a jockey whipping 10 times. horses don't count.

Surely the whips are designed to Not inflict Injury ?? just reaction. sorry to hear about the fillies you mention. Are they softer than the colts ?

[Chief Stipe]

It is noticeable that Horace and Thomas constantly bag one stable.

[Thomass]

18 hours ago, MarkyMark said:

thomas, ive never been involved with harness other than the odd bet, and had the odd dealings with a few trainers, but i have no skin in that game, just thoroughbreds.

some of you are showing just how little you know.

Horace, can you cite the example by naming the horse or jockey in question? because it would take an almighty effort to draw blood from a horse with the whip.

Chief, I strongly disagree with this forum and the continued implication Opie is a cheat by a couple on here.  It is unfounded, and unfair.

Yes Opie may have struck his mount more than the allowed amount, but this doesnt make him a cheat, I know Opie, as do many others on here, ffs dont allow this absolute fuckwit to keep this shit going.  

I am starting to take real issue with this site, and the mis information, and the fabrication of information by Thomass, is poorly representing its participants and this industry.  You must surely question the benefit of having this idiot on here.  You are allowing this absolute buffoon to make your site look foolish, and this looses all credibility with the absolute nonsense you allow this person to post.  

What if, people actually believe his ramblings, how are you and your site doing a service to this industry, by allowing him to submit information on this website that is factually incorrect and derogatory to this industry and its participants.

 

Pfttt...

Ive seen better smack talk on a World Wild Life Wrastling comedy show...

How did I know that you 'know' him....pick up his rubbish I'm guessing??

If you're too lazy to read the thread as I suggested...these 3 examples of him cheating may resonate in your bias mind..

First up he CHEATED the Racing Industry by swapping his Urine with Bruth Herd...herd of that?

...A few months back he tried to CHEAT the Weighing out process by leaving his vest off...Stipe Williamson commented...

" it was diliberate attempt to CHEAT the system"

 Thirdly...THE worst case of CHEATING was the Tauranga race...which I've recently documented

Now...leave this to the expert Thoroughbred posters....go back to whence you came...and your 80% posting rate...in the Theives on Wheels site...

They deserve you

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Now...leave this to the expert Thoroughbred posters

Where are you going go to Thomarse?

Before you leave why are you continually bagging (like Horaces does) Te Akau and Bosson?  There are heaps of examples you could use to try and prove your point but you just focus on one stable and one jockey.