Happy Sunrise Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 From the Box Seat while showing the bets of the week (transcribed as best I could) Guerin: "I think big bets sometimes annoy people who are restricted because they say I can't get on for that much but there are two ways that can happen. First, one person who doesn't bet that often and doesn't win that big are allowed to get on until they breach that and the second thing is obviously they can be across the counter and that is the simplest thing I would say to someone who is restricted because people get annoyed by that, I get annoyed by that, but you can go to the TAB and have a bet so it is a bit of dying art paying cash for a bet but that is the simplest way around it. O'Connor: Yeah, it is. Lets get the myth perpetuated here cleared up - You cannot go to the counter at the TAB with cash and have the bet of your choice. That is simply not true. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 41 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: From the Box Seat while showing the bets of the week (transcribed as best I could) Guerin: "I think big bets sometimes annoy people who are restricted because they say I can't get on for that much but there are two ways that can happen. First, one person who doesn't bet that often and doesn't win that big are allowed to get on until they breach that and the second thing is obviously they can be across the counter and that is the simplest thing I would say to someone who is restricted because people get annoyed by that, I get annoyed by that, but you can go to the TAB and have a bet so it is a bit of dying art paying cash for a bet but that is the simplest way around it. O'Connor: Yeah, it is. Lets get the myth perpetuated here cleared up - You cannot go to the counter at the TAB with cash and have the bet of your choice. That is simply not true. https://www.odt.co.nz/sport/racing/big-bet-went-dogs-punter-blows-40k-0 And yet they allow bets like this - if you believe everything you read. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, Dougie said: https://www.odt.co.nz/sport/racing/big-bet-went-dogs-punter-blows-40k-0 And yet they allow bets like this - if you believe everything you read. Overall he must be a loser otherwise he would be like Brodie and restricted. I disagree with Guerin's argument that you can just pitch up to a TAB window at your local agency to get round restrictions. For a start if you are punting with cash your limit will be $999 before the draconian process kicks in. If you are betting on Fixed Odds, which lets face it if you are punting large would be the only way to go, then the risk manager kicks in pretty quick on the system. Lastly if you are doing it consistently at the same location and are winning (you have to be registered I understand to collect big in cash over $999) then other alarms go off. Add to that you are on CCTV real time back to head office..... Well if Guerin gets away with it then he has some form of immunity!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Chief you are correct! Truth of the matter is that anyone that is thinking about being able to win large amounts continuously, is delusional! The NZ TAB has got everything in their favour, to the point where it is basically a waste of time and effort if you are wanting big returns. I question whether there too many punting professionals around as any winning punters are restricted to ridiculous low amountd. The BS anti money laundering crap also controls punters offloading significant amounts if you are a winning punter. Being able to net $200 on a bet and then have odds slashed and then not being able to have another small go at the reduced odds is just BS!!!!! The Paddy Power catastrophe has made it even worse. Yes the greyhound punter with the 40k on I would definitely say was a certain losing punter,! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 35 minutes ago, Brodie said: Being able to net $200 on a bet and then have odds slashed and then not being able to have another small go at the reduced odds is just BS!!!!! yes there should be much clearer guidelines around what they will accept and it should apply to punters this was the tradition on course in australia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 All the punters that thought the TAB offering fixed odds was going to be a great thing will simply have to live with the new now. Restricted punters, small tote pools, limited interest in NZ racing. Yep, what a great idea for the NZ TAB. I fully support the TAB limiting punters on fixed odds (although a rule on a minimum bet level would be good so as to make things more transparent). Why wouldn't they want to take $40k off a losing punter and not offer the mighty Brodie more than $200 profit. They run a business, not a charity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 15 minutes ago, Rangatira said: yes there should be much clearer guidelines around what they will accept and it should apply to punters this was the tradition on course in australia yes there should be much clearer guidelines around what they will accept and it should apply ALL to punters this was the tradition on course in australia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rangatira said: yes there should be much clearer guidelines around what they will accept and it should apply ALL to punters this was the tradition on course in australia Yep, they have minimum bet limits still in place in Australia at any operator (in additional to anything they do on course). Different rules for different states and also different rules for the different codes. Some states have no enforced minimum for harness. In Vic at Metro it is $1,000 and non-metro, $500 I think. In NSW, no rule for harness. So that is the minimum enforceable for a punter to win on a horse - not stake on a horse. And we should have some rules like that. But the limits will be small (like the $500 limit in Victoria for harness non-metro). It's good to have the rules so all punters have the opportunity, but the limits are still pretty small. Hardly more than what the mighty Brodie already seems to get at $200. If they set the rule at $500 - so that every punter has the right to a bet to win $500, would that appease Brodie. I doubt it. You can probably do that on the tote with very little impact to price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, mardigras said: If they set the rule at $500 - so that every punter has the right to a bet to win $500, would that appease Brodie. I doubt it. be great for our eardrums if he was appeased Edited December 4, 2020 by Rangatira 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forbury Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 I am that restricted when I bet fixed on nztab that I am not allowed to win more than a few hundred dollars and the price won't change and I cannot back it at a lower price.i do not bet fixed odds as a result.as for Tabcorp my bets go up for review if they will accept and for how much.i have been restricted with every bookie and cannot bet with any unless I use bowling accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Forbury said: I am that restricted when I bet fixed on nztab that I am not allowed to win more than a few hundred dollars and the price won't change and I cannot back it at a lower price.i do not bet fixed odds as a result.as for Tabcorp my bets go up for review if they will accept and for how much.i have been restricted with every bookie and cannot bet with any unless I use bowling accounts. Bet on tote. Or bet elsewhere peer to peer. Minimum bet levels such as in Oz won't change that either. When the TAB decided they were going to do a big shift towards offering fixed odds, did you want that? Did you previously bet on the tote? Why should any operator be forced to deal with large losses from winning punters? If I run a business and a client causes me massive losses, I won't deal with them, or I'll change my pricing model to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Forbury said: i have been restricted with every bookie and cannot bet with any unless I use bowling accounts. Start adding huge amounts of liquidity to betfair markets - to encourage others to do the same. If you are successful as a punter, laying off the rest on betfair can achieve the same result, and you have massive margin to play with given the prices on the exchange are likely similar to the TABs. i.e if you like something at 5s on the TAB fixed odds, lay the rest of the field to a market % of 80% (which will allow you to offer higher odds when necessary than the TAB is offering by around 20% on average across the field and still achieve your $5 dividend). That increased liquidity will then attract more punters to those markets, ultimately allowing you to just back the runner you want for an amount higher than what the TAB is offering, and to win more than your few hundred. Edited December 4, 2020 by mardigras 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 1 hour ago, mardigras said: Yep, they have minimum bet limits still in place in Australia at any operator (in additional to anything they do on course). Different rules for different states and also different rules for the different codes. Some states have no enforced minimum for harness. In Vic at Metro it is $1,000 and non-metro, $500 I think. In NSW, no rule for harness. So that is the minimum enforceable for a punter to win on a horse - not stake on a horse. And we should have some rules like that. But the limits will be small (like the $500 limit in Victoria for harness non-metro). It's good to have the rules so all punters have the opportunity, but the limits are still pretty small. Hardly more than what the mighty Brodie already seems to get at $200. If they set the rule at $500 - so that every punter has the right to a bet to win $500, would that appease Brodie. I doubt it. You can probably do that on the tote with very little impact to price. What I ask is that all punters are treated equally! The TAB is a betting agency and accordingly, they should be taking the loss’s along with the wins!!!! I believe that they are going to find that the punters are going to eventually get totally pissed with them and vote with their feet on harness racing! Everything is now in the NZ TAB’s favour in that they effectively totally control punters, as they restrict to netting pathetic amounts, and to make a small amount you have to be getting a better than 50% success rate!!!!!!!!!! Far easier ways nowadays to make good money without being treated like a criminal by the NZ TAB!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Forbury said: unless I use bowling accounts. wonder if jj flash is using his bowling account 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 48 minutes ago, Brodie said: What I ask is that all punters are treated equally! this is the role that the tote plays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 5 hours ago, mardigras said: Whilst I agree that there should be a minimum level for all punters, I think the level should be low. Say $200 - $500 on a win bet, and $100 - $200 on a place bet. They do take the losses with the wins, as I'm sure they pay out when a fixed odds punter wins. It makes no difference if you vote with your feet, many of you seemed keen on bringing in commingling and fixed odds. You always seem to want things and are never happy. Now you have fixed odds and you want the TAB to be charitable with them as well. I don't understand how it is that to make a small amount, you have to be getting better than a 50% success rate. Are you only backing odds on or near enough? I win less than 10% of the time and seem able to make more than a small amount - of course it depends on what you mean by the subjective term, 'small amount'. Most things are always going to be in the TABs favour. Since they are generally setting books at around 125% and getting down to around 115%. Pretty good favour right there. Next you'll be wanting them to set markets to 95% to help the punters out. I'm not sure where the NZ TAB treats anyone like a criminal, but I do think it is good business practice to avoid unnecessary losses if you are able to do that. I think you cry wolf too much. Are you as cabbage looking as you are green? MardiGras, when you are limited to such pathetic amounts, to win any small amount in a day or night, you need to need to be getting a collect about 50% of the time or you are only making pocket money due to the very small amounts being able to be placed. The betting platform they paid mega millions for has done nothing for the punters whatsoever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 11 hours ago, Rangatira said: yes there should be much clearer guidelines around what they will accept and it should apply to punters this was the tradition on course in australia your restricted rangi? the handbrake on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 35 minutes ago, mardigras said: Not if you can only win $200. I doubt you would change the price by much if you backed a horse on the tote to win $200. Clearly you thought the fixed odds offering from the TAB was going to be great. And you stopped betting on the tote. More full you since you get what you asked for - and now you don't like the way it is playing out. What a laugh. Even on betfair, a punter as astute as you could easily make $1000 per race, and there's hardly any money there. Still, more than $200 that you refer to for fixed odds. You've said you've done pretty well in your employment/business career. Well done. Did you give money away to your customers just because you felt like it. Maybe sort out a few of your more astute customers and give them more money than you got from them, just because you liked them. I'm sure you did. You want a business to operate in a manner that you wouldn't operate like yourself. And then you complain. You don't want much. Very very green. My business is not a betting agency! We treat all our customers equally and not unjustly, as the NZ TAB do! A betting agency need to take the good with the bad just like any business! If they cant make a go of it, then get out of the kitchen. We provide a service and people pay for that service, totally different to a betting agency!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 I think the brodster likes to put bit more than a dollar each way on 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said: I think the brodster likes to put bit more than a dollar each way on Yes, but if he is restricted to winning $200 on a race, he can put easily $30 on a runner at 15s on the tote which will have very little impact on price. That equates to more than $400 profit. Or put $150 on something at 4s. The price shift from that bet is going to be small (even in small NZ pools). He can still add his fixed odds bet and win a further $200. Heck, that's $600 now, and no minimum bet rules in place. It's punters like Brodie that have brought about the pools in NZ races being small. They changed the landscape, and now they're complaining. Odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 1 hour ago, mardigras said: Yes, but if he is restricted to winning $200 on a race, he can put easily $30 on a runner at 15s on the tote which will have very little impact on price. That equates to more than $400 profit. Or put $150 on something at 4s. The price shift from that bet is going to be small (even in small NZ pools). He can still add his fixed odds bet and win a further $200. Heck, that's $600 now, and no minimum bet rules in place. It's punters like Brodie that have brought about the pools in NZ races being small. They changed the landscape, and now they're complaining. Odd. You are obviously not aware of how I wager Mardigras! The TAB with their tight restrictions have a very flawed business plan! They should be encouraging wagering rather than turning punters off!!! The odds are always in their favour and by restricting many punters they are losing revenue and profit big time. Not every restricted punter can win on every race and by restricting to small amounts is costing them. Accept the bets and then adjust the price so that they dont take much more on it which encourages wagering on other horses! Turnover is where it is at, if you want to make a bigger profit!!! You will say that paying out to successful punters is not where it is at, but I say the more they encourage punters the more profit the TAB will make, as the odds are always in the betting agencies favour! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 4 hours ago, mardigras said: You were told once before you were clueless and you got all upset. Yet you keep wanting to reinforce that view. Brodie If MardiGras has made that comment about me I hope that I would have sucked it up and acknowledged it as the best one liner (well 3lines) I’ve seen on here for a while Mikie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 55 minutes ago, Mikie said: Brodie If MardiGras has made that comment about me I hope that I would have sucked it up and acknowledged it as the best one liner (well 3lines) I’ve seen on here for a while Mikie Clueless and law abiding Mikie! Take it onboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Brodie said: Clueless and law abiding Mikie! Take it onboard That’s the best you’ve got Brodie? As I’ve pointed out it was you that said you were clueless to begin, and now you have referred to yourself as clueless once again Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, Mikie said: That’s the best you’ve got Brodie? As I’ve pointed out it was you that said you were clueless to begin, and now you have referred to yourself as clueless once again Mikie It used to be - Brodie, always on the money. Sadly, by his own admission, it's become - Brodie, clueless (but law abiding). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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