Another dumb plan from the man bernard saundry

[Joe Bloggs]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I agree with the sentiment but aren't we being a little bit fooled by the manipulation of the statistics?  BS is using the endemic NZRB/NZTR BS spin machine.

Before I discuss that I do have an issue with paying every starter.  Isn't it just another factor that will reduce the quality of our fields?  Mugs will race longer and the good ones that can win will earn less and therefore more pressure will go onto selling the younger winners.  End result our Group racing continues to decline in quality and the overall quality of our fields will decline.

Now to Bernies BS letter!

This simplifies the process for NZTR.  Basically - "we'll rob the winners to pay the jockey's fees so we don't have to do any administration like send an invoice out, follow up late payers and wait 30 days to get the cash when you pay on time...."  Will we actually see any savings at NZTR?  I can almost guarantee that we won't.

Mmmmm isn't this NZTR's role now with the devolution of some TAB NZ (NZRB) functions to the codes?  So basically TAB NZ has said, and presumably NZTR agreed, that they will fund NZTR the same but NZTR will have to do more with it.  Basically a cross company piece of creative accounting.  The thing is NZTR have no means or statutory enshrined way of generating extra revenue other than charging their customers more or paying them less!

I've posted my thoughts on this in other topics which surprisingly hasn't got more of a response.  However this statement of Bernie's is absolute bollocks.  A few reasons for saying that.  RITA/NZRB was bailed out by the Government.  One of the conditions of that bail out was to "enable the industry codes to continue to be funded."  What's happened?  RITA/NZRB as of 1 August was still sitting with that money in the bank.  There was no reason not to fund the industry stakes as previously.  Unless of course as some of us suspect RITA/NZRB/TAB NZ is still in real financial shyte and creditors have covenants on that lump of funds.  Most of which goes to OpenBet via Paddypower and the Broadcasting/Production contracts.

Further there is no need to pay in arrears - the overall turnover in the Covid-19 affected year was only down 5%.  The TAB NZ continued to earn revenue BUT they weren't paying out stakes to the industry so NZTR should have said we don't agree with this change in policy as you are sitting on the money we earnt.  Add to that with today's accounting systems and the flash new betting system why doesn't NZTR get the revenue they earnt within 7 days of the event that earnt it?

Given the obvious shaky financial position of TAB NZ they have rather sneakily shifted a month's liability fully onto NZTR!  Now Bernie is either one of two things (or both) - thick or complicit.  What happens if TAB NZ starts to default on payments again and the Government refuses to hand out another $50m?  The bank calls in the $45m revolving credit loan due to be repaid in full 1 August next year and the $40m dodgy contracts are not paid?  Meanwhile Bernie has run a month's worth of races and the money isn't forthcoming from TAB NZ so he can't pay Owners, Trainers and Jockey's.

Now this is the worst bit of spin in the whole letter!  Unfortunately we don't get the same amount of detailed information that we used to under the Purcell era so it is hard to get too definitive about what is happening. 

But the extra races were added to accommodate the number of horses that were ready to race - advertised races were over nominated earlier in the season.  Many of those extra races were SELF-FUNDING (we didn't put on any extra Group races did we?) as they were at the low end of the Stake tree.  Even worse they were funded at the minimum on many occasions and not at the advertised minimum for the raceday.  They FUNDED THEMSELVES!  Albeit in "arrears"!

So Bernie - cut the BULLSHIT!

Re your first paragraph, over here in the real world we pay back to 10th in most states, some 8th, in the bush bush only back to 4th, but hey, it works, if you run 15th of 15, do you really think you should be paid the starters incentive? I say no, 10th is plenty, but over here in every instance the jocks fee is paid, so out of pocket exes are minimal...Saundry is a grandstander, how he's even there doesn't say much for NZ racing, , as you say he's a bullshit artist, when they go cap in hand back to Jacinda it will come down like the pack of cards it is......they run picnic racing here far better, Hang on, I forgot to gallop mine this morning, best I get out and do it, .........

[curious]

Yes JB. And here it's really a way of paying the jockey fee to owners in a way that trainers and jocks still get a cut of what would be otherwise lost stakemoney.

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, curious said:

Yes JB. And here it's really a way of paying the jockey fee to owners in a way that trainers and jocks still get a cut of what would be otherwise lost stakemoney.

Yep - do you agree with the double dip that is now happening?  The winning owner is not only getting screwed now if their horse wins but all the way down the chain.  Still has to pay jockey fees but now a % all the way down the field no matter where the horse finishes!!!

[curious]

Not sure I get what you mean by a double dip. By whom?

 

[Chief Stipe]

26 minutes ago, curious said:

Not sure I get what you mean by a double dip. By whom?

Do the Trainers and Jockey's get a % of the stake paid to horses beyond 4th?  If so the Jockey's now get not only their riding fee but a % of the stake that they wouldn't have got previously.   Either way the Owner is getting screwed!

[mardigras]

16 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Do the Trainers and Jockey's get a % of the stake paid to horses beyond 4th?  If so the Jockey's now get not only their riding fee but a % of the stake that they wouldn't have got previously.   Either way the Owner is getting screwed!

The owner of a 10th placed runner will be less out of pocket than without paying stake down to 10th. 

If they are getting screwed, perhaps they should politely bend over whilst this is all going on - since they are getting a lot more than what there is interest in what they are providing. Remember that. The issue is much bigger than where they pay stakes to. It's the entire sustainability of NZ racing itself that has been screwed - and largely supported by many along the way.

Edited December 6, 2020 by mardigras

[curious]

27 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Do the Trainers and Jockey's get a % of the stake paid to horses beyond 4th?  If so the Jockey's now get not only their riding fee but a % of the stake that they wouldn't have got previously.   Either way the Owner is getting screwed!

If you add that money onto the winning stake then the jockey of the winner will get it. There is no extra going to trainers and jockeys en masse however the stake is distributed.

[Chief Stipe]

26 minutes ago, curious said:

If you add that money onto the winning stake then the jockey of the winner will get it. There is no extra going to trainers and jockeys en masse however the stake is distributed.

I can understand Curious how you support the new policy as it is a kind of socialism isn't it.

[mardigras]

16 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I can understand Curious how you support the new policy as it is a kind of socialism isn't it.

Well NZ racing is a very good example of socialism. A handout to something that can't make it on its own.

So instead of worrying about 10th placing getting some money, why not complain about 1st placing getting what they get? A much bigger share of the socialist pie. And you think the share should be bigger!

Edited December 6, 2020 by mardigras

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

I can understand Curious how you support the new policy as it is a kind of socialism isn't it.

Well as JB says, free racing works in Oz. It appeared to be working here some years back but a faction of the TA influenced NZTR to can it when the shit hit the fan on funding.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, mardigras said:

Well NZ racing is a very good example of socialism. A handout to something that can't make it on its own.

So instead of worrying about 10th placing getting some money, why not complain about 1st placing getting what they get? A much bigger share of the socialist pie. And you think the share should be bigger!

The issue I have Mardigras is that the Politburo is getting more inefficient and getting to keep more and more of the pie while taxing the Proletariat more and more to pay for their largesse.

[mardigras]

4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

The issue I have Mardigras is that the Politburo is getting more inefficient and getting to keep more and more of the pie while taxing the Proletariat more and more to pay for their largesse.

But that has nothing to with how the stake is distributed and more to do with the high cost model of administration.

And doesn't change the issue around the social welfare aspect of NZ racing.

In a true socialist world, I imagine all runners would get the same amount as they contribute equally of their time.

The NZ model isn't like that, it is one where the government chooses to provide handouts/benefits to a certain group that would otherwise struggle to continue in the manner they do. Much like the unemployment benefit is designed to support those that still have expenses to meet, but insufficient tangible income to support that. NZ Racing is the 'unemployment benefit industry' of NZ.

[barryb]

10 hours ago, Nostradamus said:

Chief stripe, I agree with you on not every runner should be paid out, it should be the first 5 or in the so called big events group 2 and 1 then a 6th place can be added. It to me is foolish to believe money saved from fewer runners will create more races where will the extra meetings fit into the calander?? It's ludicrous sugar coated shite, AND IT AFFECTS EVERYONE IN THE INDUSTRY!!

Yep agreed.

As an owner I am even more pissed to hear that soon Jocks are getting a pay rise. Fuck me No one else in the community is & certainly no one in an unsustainable industry.

Wake up, this game is on its knees and sticking hands out for more cash when the community is doing it bloody tough is ludicrous.

 

[mardigras]

4 minutes ago, barryb said:

As an owner I am even more pissed to hear that soon Jocks are getting a pay rise. Fuck me No one else in the community is & certainly no one in an unsustainable industry.

 

I think that is piss poor. Who is making these decisions. Fuckwits?

[barryb]

13 minutes ago, mardigras said:

I think that is piss poor. Who is making these decisions. Fuckwits?

Yep.

Feb 1st the fee goes from $145 to $160

Edited December 6, 2020 by barryb

[mardigras]

6 minutes ago, barryb said:

Yep.

And whilst I appreciate the situation with owners, all that should mean is that the administration should be going down a path that accelerates interest in NZ racing. Of course we want stakes to be higher for owners as it is an expensive venture. So at the very minimum, make sure that they extract the absolute maximum out of what is out there, in relation to NZ racing. Rather than 'screwing it' in the words of the chief.

You can't keep destroying everything about NZ racing whilst at the same time praising how good things are going, most of which has zero to do with NZ racing.

They are hell bent on smoke and mirrors given in the space of 13 years, NZ racing has gone from nearly 100% self sustaining, to at best 25%. This is all at the hands of the management within NZ TAB and the code management.

Edited December 6, 2020 by mardigras

[curious]

6 hours ago, barryb said:

Yep.

Feb 1st the fee goes from $145 to $160

That's 10% increase. CPI +1.4% through September and many suffering paycuts and redundancies. Not sure who negotiated that on behalf of owners. The Owners' Federation? If so, they need to get a new negotiator.

Edited December 6, 2020 by curious

[Freda]

7 hours ago, barryb said:

Yep agreed.

As an owner I am even more pissed to hear that soon Jocks are getting a pay rise. Fuck me No one else in the community is & certainly no one in an unsustainable industry.

Wake up, this game is on its knees and sticking hands out for more cash when the community is doing it bloody tough is ludicrous.

 

If payment was related to ability......

[mumbles]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

If payment was related to ability......

Should apply to many occupations eg teachers,lawyers,builders etc

[curious]

Maybe owners should start putting rides out for tender?

[Huey]

14 hours ago, barryb said:

Yep.

Feb 1st the fee goes from $145 to $160

 

I loved this : 

we believe we have been very patient as the industry has worked through a period of change and the disruption caused by Covid-19 and the ensuing lockdown period,

As CS has pointed they are already getting their percentages out of the starters fee now also, in some cases that's a $30 increase 

A bit rich given the state of the industry imo , not to mention the state of the jockey ranks!

 

https://loveracing.nz/News/31839/Ridingfeeincreasesflagged.aspx