The Peters Review - Yikes!

[Basil]

As many predicted at the time it was announced:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12070159

Jobs for the (galloping) boys...

[Chief Stipe]

Racing: Fears Winston Peters probe will leave harness and dogs out in cold

14 Jun, 2018 5:00am

 2 minutes to read

Harness and greyhound codes could be left empty-handed when racing industry changes. Photo / Mark Mitchell

Otago Daily Times

 

By: Jonny Turner

 

A letter from Racing Minister Winston Peters suggests the harness and greyhound codes could be left empty-handed when John Messara recommends racing industry changes.

Messara is working on a wide-scale review of the industry which will be presented to Peters and the Department of Internal Affairs in the coming weeks.

After it was announced Messara would be charged with conducting the review, the Otago Daily Times contacted Peters' office for information on the terms of reference for the report.

No specific terms could be produced.

The Taxpayers' Union this week revealed documents showing it, too, had asked for terms of reference from Peters' office.

The union was sent a copy of a letter from Peters to Messara which outlines what is required for the review.

In the letter, Peters specifically asks Messara to focus his review on the thoroughbred industry.  "This letter is to formally seek your interest in undertaking a high-level assessment on my behalf of the racing industry in New Zealand, with a focus on how the current model supports the financial viability of the thoroughbred racing sector.

"Your review should analyse the current situation, with particular emphasis on the thoroughbred racing code."

Messara's review of the industry was previously thought to be an investigation of the whole racing sector that did not have a specific focus on thoroughbreds.

Peters said Messara's review "will also assist the Government in determining if the current Racing Act 2003 and the proposed Racing Amendment Bill are fit for purpose".

The thoroughbred racing focus of Messara's review could leave the harness racing and greyhound codes out in the cold if Messara recommends changes to racing legislation to benefit the galloping code.

The revelation Peters wants the future prosperity of thoroughbred racing specifically examined comes as his close ties to the code are in the spotlight. Last month, the Herald 
reported that in September thoroughbred heavyweights Sir Patrick Hogan and wife Justine Lady Hogan took out a full-page advertisement in The Informant urging the racing industry to support NZ First because of its racing policies.

The Electoral Commission said it was looking into the advertisement which was not declared in New Zealand First's election expenses return.

In North & South magazine late last year, Hogan said he had helped NZ First leader Peters develop his racing policy.

[mardigras]

Going to be difficult I would have thought to get the legislation changed to fit a model benefiting gallops over and above the other codes, through parliament.

Does highlight how badly gallops are performing and the desperate lengths required to try and keep them afloat. Maybe they could just give all the revenue from non NZ racing to gallops. They are such a privileged bunch. 

[Noodlum]

Yes it isn't going to end well if the Thoroughbred stakeholders try to assert what they perceive to be an privileged position.  All hell will break loose from the harness and greyhound codes and justifiably so.

Quite frankly the Thoroughbred racing code has been the architect of their own demise and I hope that they are not bailed out at the expense of anyone else.

[Horseboy]

Can someone point out how the words 'particular emphasis' clearly show intent to create a model that benefits TB at the expense of others codes?

 

54 minutes ago, mardigras said:

Going to be difficult I would have thought to get the legislation changed to fit a model benefiting gallops over and above the other codes, through parliament.

Does highlight how badly gallops are performing and the desperate lengths required to try and keep them afloat. Maybe they could just give all the revenue from non NZ racing to gallops. They are such a privileged bunch. 

Maybe if TB is performing as poorly as you state that is the reason the Minister is asking for particular emphasis is given to finding a solution to these problems?

[mardigras]

5 minutes ago, Horseboy said:

Maybe if TB is performing as poorly as you state that is the reason the Minister is asking for particular emphasis is given to finding a solution to these problems?

I would say that may well be some of the reason. Are you of the view that NZ thoroughbred racing is not performing abysmally?

Edited June 15, 2018 by mardigras

[mardigras]

5 minutes ago, Horseboy said:

Can someone point out how the words 'particular emphasis' clearly show intent to create a model that benefits TB at the expense of others codes?
 

It doesn't necessarily show clear intent. But it leaves the possibility of such. The words are superfluous if the intent is to have a model that doesn't benefit thoroughbreds at the expense of others since omitting that would have said the same thing.

[Horseboy]

I think all the codes and the TAB are getting so thoroughly pantsed by other sports/entertainment options/offshore bookies , especially in the market for new/younger entrants that it's amazing a full scale review wasn't done 5 years ago.

That's my point, it doesn't indicate any ulterior motives. But Peters has on multiple occasions indicated the outcome of the review would look to ensure all codes have a good outcome. This just seems like typical fear mongering and division stoking. Let's wait for the report.

[mardigras]

Maybe. But why then even mention 'thoroughbred'. As I say, if there is no ulterior motive, the word is 100% unnecessary. It's there, so is open to comment.

[Happy Sunrise]

On 15/06/2018 at 1:46 PM, mardigras said:

Maybe. But why then even mention 'thoroughbred'. As I say, if there is no ulterior motive, the word is 100% unnecessary. It's there, so is open to comment.

They mention it because they don't really know what they are doing or what they are trying to achieve in any real detail. The budget showed that with the inane breeding tax thing they introduced.

Winston Peters gets Messara in and hopes for the best. Winston has much bigger things on his plate (read ego) while is boss away having her child. Does anyone actually think he cares that much about racing in the big scheme of things?

[Flagship uberalles]

5 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

They mention it because they don't really know what they are doing or what they are trying to achieve in any real detail. The budget showed that with the inane breeding tax thing they introduced.

Winston Peters gets Messara in and hopes for the best. Winston has much bigger things on his plate (read ego) while is boss away having her child. Does anyone actually think he cares that much about racing in the big scheme of things?

No nobody cares anymore, the dynamics have changed in n.z (unfortunately) I think gallops are worse off now than harness, at least harness can make it a night out for the office crowd or a novelty grass meeting. 

[Happy Sunrise]

2 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said:

I think gallops are worse off now than harness, at least harness can make it a night out for the office crowd or a novelty grass meeting. 

Gallops may be celebrating that exceptional piece of horsemanship today and it is on the main news but jumps racing is archaic and I can't see a future for it. No average teenager or young adult wants to watch horses jump and fall as they do anymore. The animal activists are right in my mind as I can barely watch super tired horses try to jump the last few fences only to smash into them. 

All codes have trouble, harness in the north, especially the central north island which seems to be dying due to a lack of coordination in its meetings. Seems to have fallen on hard times.

A coordinated approach by all 3 codes is required but I don't know if the self-interests of each code take precedence.

 

[Flagship uberalles]

4 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Gallops may be celebrating that exceptional piece of horsemanship today and it is on the main news but jumps racing is archaic and I can't see a future for it. No average teenager or young adult wants to watch horses jump and fall as they do anymore. The animal activists are right in my mind as I can barely watch super tired horses try to jump the last few fences only to smash into them. 

All codes have trouble, harness in the north, especially the central north island which seems to be dying due to a lack of coordination in its meetings. Seems to have fallen on hard times.

A coordinated approach by all 3 codes is required but I don't know if the self-interests of each code take precedence.

 

I hear what your saying re jumps in nz happy, however in the UK and Ireland  the flat season shuts down in winter (apart from low class all weather racing) and every race is a jump race its a great spectacle and well patronised....but having said that its something I don't like either, a horse that is absolutely buggerd or even worse the ones that break a leg etc. That is the one good thing about the standard bred they are very tough and hardy. In my dream ideal world every horse would have a good home to go to after racing. 

But you are right about central nth island harness pity about wellington, I used to love the meetings there, always well attended and plenty from both islands racing.

[barryb]

26 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Gallops may be celebrating that exceptional piece of horsemanship today and it is on the main news but jumps racing is archaic and I can't see a future for it. No average teenager or young adult wants to watch horses jump and fall as they do anymore. The animal activists are right in my mind as I can barely watch super tired horses try to jump the last few fences only to smash into them. 

All codes have trouble, harness in the north, especially the central north island which seems to be dying due to a lack of coordination in its meetings. Seems to have fallen on hard times.

A coordinated approach by all 3 codes is required but I don't know if the self-interests of each code take precedence.

 

Really? 

How many jumps have died this season so far? By my count 1 and that was Friday at Timaru.

The rate of fatalities is incredibly low, the perception you have does not match the reality. You have fallen for the trap and posted on emotion rather than fact.

1 faller today across the jumps races, oh and it just happened to get back up and win the race.

[Flagship uberalles]

6 minutes ago, barryb said:

Really? 

How many jumps have died this season so far? By my count 1 and that was Friday at Timaru.

The rate of fatalities is incredibly low, the perception you have does not match the reality. You have fallen for the trap and posted on emotion rather than fact.

1 faller today across the jumps races, oh and it just happened to get back up and win the race.

Your completely right Barry, but its a new generation of punters coming through, in 20 years our generations opinion will be redundant. 

[Happy Sunrise]

50 minutes ago, barryb said:

Really? 

How many jumps have died this season so far? By my count 1 and that was Friday at Timaru.

The rate of fatalities is incredibly low, the perception you have does not match the reality. You have fallen for the trap and posted on emotion rather than fact.

1 faller today across the jumps races, oh and it just happened to get back up and win the race

Yes, really.

I didn't comment on the fatality rate. I was commenting on what jumps racing looks like to the younger generation. Emotion is everything to them.

It is great to hear only one death. When I flick on Trackside recently there seem to be lots of jumps races before I get to the trots. I have seen a couple of shockers. It isn't a good look. That is all I am saying.

[Horseboy]

2 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Yes, really.

I didn't comment on the fatality rate. I was commenting on what jumps racing looks like to the younger generation. Emotion is everything to them.

It is great to hear only one death. When I flick on Trackside recently there seem to be lots of jumps races before I get to the trots. I have seen a couple of shockers. It isn't a good look. That is all I am saying.

The same generation that loves knock outs and bloodsport in the UFC? but then i guess racing doesn't have the same marketing does it..

[Happy Sunrise]

4 minutes ago, Horseboy said:

The same generation that loves knock outs and bloodsport in the UFC? but then i guess racing doesn't have the same marketing does it..

They couldn't care less what people choose to do with each other but defenceless animals....

The hypocrisy is breathtaking.

[barryb]

7 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Yes, really.

I didn't comment on the fatality rate. I was commenting on what jumps racing looks like to the younger generation. Emotion is everything to them.

It is great to hear only one death. When I flick on Trackside recently there seem to be lots of jumps races before I get to the trots. I have seen a couple of shockers. It isn't a good look. That is all I am saying.

Re look at your comment as you state “the animal activists are right”.

Harnessing horses to run in an unnatural gait is cruel and demeaning to them,  similar to docking a dogs tail which is for cosmetic reasons only.

2 examples about of how silly this shit could end up, Its worth noting that today’s young people have been educated to think like they do by us, we have not corrected the I’ll informed and extreme views they have formed about the world and it’s animals. They live in a fanciful world where animals roam free and unharmed by man. It easy to form those opinions of course when you live in a privileged wealthy society by world standards, these kids think life is over if wifi is unavailable. Left wing woman teachers have a lot to answer for.

[wally]

9 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Yes, really.

I didn't comment on the fatality rate. I was commenting on what jumps racing looks like to the younger generation. Emotion is everything to them.

It is great to hear only one death. When I flick on Trackside recently there seem to be lots of jumps races before I get to the trots. I have seen a couple of shockers. It isn't a good look. That is all I am saying.

just as bad watching a trot race where half the field gallops

[Happy Sunrise]

25 minutes ago, wally said:

just as bad watching a trot race where half the field gallops

I don't think so. Far from it.

[Happy Sunrise]

1 hour ago, barryb said:

Re look at your comment as you state “the animal activists are right”.

I will rephrase. I agree with them.

 

1 hour ago, barryb said:

these kids think life is over if wifi is unavailable. Left wing woman teachers have a lot to answer for.

wifi is the new drug lol. 

I wouldn't blame females. I wouldn't blame teachers. That is like blaming the jockeys or trainers for the troubles of racing. Silly.

[barryb]

27 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

I wouldn't blame females. I wouldn't blame teachers. That is like blaming the jockeys or trainers for the troubles of racing. Silly.

I would, many of them are conditioning the kids with their own beliefs as fact, rather allowing them to form their own from intelligent debate.

The apathy of Trainers & inability to agree on a course of action is one of the main reasons there has been no solution to racing's ills.

Edited June 16, 2018 by barryb

[Basil]

1 hour ago, barryb said:

I would, many of them are conditioning the kids with their own beliefs as fact, rather allowing them to form their own from intelligent debate.

The apathy of Trainers & inability to agree on a course of action is one of the main reasons there has been no solution to racing's ills.

 

3 hours ago, barryb said:

Re look at your comment as you state “the animal activists are right”.

Harnessing horses to run in an unnatural gait is cruel and demeaning to them,  similar to docking a dogs tail which is for cosmetic reasons only.

2 examples about of how silly this shit could end up, Its worth noting that today’s young people have been educated to think like they do by us, we have not corrected the I’ll informed and extreme views they have formed about the world and it’s animals. They live in a fanciful world where animals roam free and unharmed by man. It easy to form those opinions of course when you live in a privileged wealthy society by world standards, these kids think life is over if wifi is unavailable. Left wing woman teachers have a lot to answer for.

Very doubtful, imho.  In 21 years (and counting!) of having at least one child in the state education system, I've yet to meet one who's even vegetarian, never mind an animal welfare activist. Special arrangements for my vegan daughter have only ever been made very grudgingly. So hardly the PETA breeding ground you seem to be implying. 

As far as lefty-ism (and greeny-ism) is concerned, this has indeed been a bit more prevalent (although in my experience more common amongst male teachers than females). But even then, the kids are smart enough to see through it. Most that I know are, at heart, pretty materialistic, hedonistic, and sensible. They claim to dislike my Archie Bunker play-acting, but their actions say otherwise.  Chlöe Swarbrick is the exception, not the rule.  

Anyway, back to racing. I love watching jumps racing. It interests me far more than flat gallops. I still cite the 2001 GN Steeple as one of the greatest races I've ever seen.  But there's no doubt that, if fatalities are a measure of cruelty, it is a very cruel sport (citing numbers from a single, barely started, season fails Stat 101 I'm afraid). So I agree with Happy — the animal welfare activists are right to target it. Indeed, we should be pleased they're doing so, as it distracts them from other less-salubrious practices of racing in general.  

BTW, how did we get from 'The Peters Report' to here??

[Happy Sunrise]

6 hours ago, Basil said:

BTW, how did we get from 'The Peters Report' to here??

Whether it be education, housing, health or racing, it takes a strong and knowledgeable person at the top of the tree who knows what they are doing to make effective change. 

I have no faith in Peters, Messara, maybe there is some hope but I won't be holding my breath.