Race Fixing v A Losing drive

[hunterthepunter]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

great determination and cross the front of the field squeezing some up 

aloka sires stakes  squeezing it up cutting it off  SOFT STIPES AGAIN 

[the galah]

25 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

and having said that Galah , in both these Group 1 races the plans and tactics resulted in the best possible outcome for the runners we are talking about, That is the name of the game !! Best possible outcome ????

Not quite the finishing order you or I wanted , but ALL right up there !!! and where were the rest ?  ?? nowhere

Thats what we are disagreeing on. The plans and tactics prevented amazing dream achieve the best possible outcome. As to what finishing order you or i wanted. I had no preferred outcome as i never had a bet on that race.

[Gammalite]

15 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said:

aloka sires stakes  squeezing it up cutting it off  SOFT STIPES AGAIN 

Hey Hunter , you're down voting me after 2 bottles of wine !!   WTF  hehe you mean bugger ! 

Com'on fellas, you all know everyone is doing there best to get their runners home !!

Just now, the galah said:

Thats what we are disagreeing on. The plans and tactics prevented amazing dream achieve the best possible outcome. As to what finishing order you or i wanted. I had no preferred outcome as i never had a bet on that race.

Haha no I don't disagree with you , I would love the finish order to be how YOU want it Galah !!!

I did have a bet with a $20 Quinella with Allstars so all good , but lost 50 bucks on COLT THIRTY ONE here 2nd as couldn't resist the 7-1 odds !! hahah and lost 40 on Spankem-Ashley Locaz Quinella , blah hahaha

after 2 bottles hard to type now , so leave you with it, yeah , you CANNOT expect Mark to ignore his stable runners hehe . You are a good Sport Galah , and i'm happy you had a drive or 2 as that does show you know what you are talking about !!   good luck for some winners !!!! p.s back Mark , can't go wrong heheheh  

[Karrots]

11 hours ago, hunterthepunter said:

lol. is that why big trev named a horse hot pants and gave her half share lol

Haha. That is a good 1 liner. 

In USA, it is common practice to tip certain service people. 

I was not following harness when lived there so am not 100% sure, however, I would not be surprised if Dexter gets some tips and also possibly trainers.

In NZ the odd owner could also reward, trainer - drivers. At workouts could this tip type thing be happen ... I don't know of a drivers fee for workouts for example.

[Karrots]

10 hours ago, Gammalite said:

after 2 bottles hard to type now , 

Maybe rule 101 for you Gamms 😇

[Noodlum]

10 hours ago, the galah said:

The only time you would ever take a trail on what clearly was the best horse was if it raced best with cover. And we know form amazing dreams previous races that it is a great stayer and leader.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your story.  If you look at all of Amazing Dream's wins they are all different.  You could hardly say she was a leader and a stayer.  

WOODLANDS STUD CADUCEUS CLUB 2YO FILLIES CLASSIC - led out, handed up and trailed behind leader, inside run half way down straight - close finish.

PGG WRIGHTSON NZ YEARLING SALES 2YO FILLIES FINAL - Drew 5, pushed forward from start to sit parked, pushed forward to lead a lap out when horse attacked on outside.  Easy win.

PETER BRECKON MEMORIAL CADUCEUS CLUB STAKES - Drew 5, bit slow for early speed, settles 6th with trail, 3 back 1 out at the bell, moves forward to sit parked 700m, hits lead at top of straight, Stylish Memphis flew home.

ALABAR SIRES STAKES 3YO FILLIES CHAMPIONSHIP MOBILE PACE - Drew 9, again slow and settles second last, moves forward 3 wide at the bell getting a drag up behind Stylish Memphis, rolls off Stylish Memphis to take lead half way up straight.

Northern Oaks - tardy from 3 draw, steadied, then taken to the lead on straightening.  Last 800m in 56.2

Northern Derby - again tardy, restrained to back of the field, got a drag into the race 3 wide, finished best.  Last 800m 56.2

Neville R Sires Series Heat 5 - Five horse field, takes trail and uses passing lane to just get up.  Last 800m 55.2.

Neville R Series Final - drew wide, slow away and restrained to back of field, tried to get a drag into it but went forward on its own with 900m to go, sat parked worried the leader down in the straight.  Last 800m 55.4.

CADUCEUS CLUB NORTHERN BREEDERS STAKES - drew 8, again a bit slow out of the gate, keeps on moving forward steadily to take the lead, Mark slows them right up, sprint home with Beyond Words running the fastest last sectional and flying home.

The race that started this discussion:

ROSSLANDS STUD QUEEN OF HEARTS - drew 1, again not the fastest starts from the ace, once passed quickly moves off markers to go forward to take lead, again Mark tries to slow them up, Natalie decides to go forward with Beyond Words and Amazing Dream hands up, Natalie increases the speed of the race (this would surely work in Amazing Dream's favour!), Natalie really puts the heat on at the 700m runs the 800 to the 400 in 27, Amazing Dream still under a hold, Natalie goes all out for home and Mark goes for the inside run - Amazing Dream rallies but gets pipped a head.   In my opinion it had every chance.  A mile rate of 1:55.  Last 800m in 55.4.  They ran 7 seconds slower the week before when Amazing Dream won with a MR of 2:00!

Now after looking at all those races the only conclusion you can draw is that Amazing Dream ran each race not with a preconceived tactic in mind but according to circumstances as they arose.  That is one of the disadvantages with a horse that doesn't have gate speed.  Yes it can stay but you can't say it "likes" to lead.  Ironically it got outstayed in its last start.

Other conclusions - Mark drives more conservatively than Natalie - will try and slow a field down if in front or seek cover.  Natalie still has that Australian Gammalite aggression in her drives and will go forward without cover and in more circumstances than Mark.  Two different styles from two different drives.

Beyond Words - this horse is on the up after only 8 starts - definitely getting stronger.  Amazing Dream hasn't quite captured its previous form (26 starts).

 

[hunterthepunter]

10 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Hey Hunter , you're down voting me after 2 bottles of wine !!   WTF  hehe you mean bugger ! 

Com'on fellas, you all know everyone is doing there best to get their runners home !!

Haha no I don't disagree with you , I would love the finish order to be how YOU want it Galah !!!

I did have a bet with a $20 Quinella with Allstars so all good , but lost 50 bucks on COLT THIRTY ONE here 2nd as couldn't resist the 7-1 odds !! hahah and lost 40 on Spankem-Ashley Locaz Quinella , blah hahaha

after 2 bottles hard to type now , so leave you with it, yeah , you CANNOT expect Mark to ignore his stable runners hehe . You are a good Sport Galah , and i'm happy you had a drive or 2 as that does show you know what you are talking about !!   good luck for some winners !!!! p.s back Mark , can't go wrong heheheh  

lol I don't drink idiot. typical of you being a Ozzie bogan

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Noodlum said:

Don't let the facts get in the way of your story.  If you look at all of Amazing Dream's wins they are all different.  You could hardly say she was a leader and a stayer.  

 

Now after looking at all those races the only conclusion you can draw is that Amazing Dream ran each race not with a preconceived tactic in mind but according to circumstances as they arose.  That is one of the disadvantages with a horse that doesn't have gate speed.  Yes it can stay but you can't say it "likes" to lead.  Ironically it got outstayed in its last start.

Other conclusions - Mark drives more conservatively than Natalie - will try and slow a field down if in front or seek cover.  Natalie still has that Australian Gammalite aggression in her drives and will go forward without cover and in more circumstances than Mark.  Two different styles from two different drives.

Beyond Words - this horse is on the up after only 8 starts - definitely getting stronger.  Amazing Dream hasn't quite captured its previous form (26 starts).

 

If you look at  its record it has won 9 races either in front or parked over the last lap. 

Surely you recall its cup day run.

 

I don't know how you could say it was not a team drive to benefit Beyond words. I really don't.  Had he parked Beyond Words like every driver in nz would have,except an All stars team driver,,then amazing dream wins.

Its no wonder the stipes took no action and didn't nip the operation inca races in the bud,before any police investigation. They would have had to deal with many in the industry who think some high profile participants have different standards to others. This thread is an example of that. Thats my last word on this thread.

[Noodlum]

13 minutes ago, the galah said:

I don't know how you could say it was not a team drive to benefit Beyond words. I really don't.  Had he parked Beyond Words like every driver in nz would have,except an All stars team driver,,then amazing dream wins.

I doubt every driver in NZ would have not taken a trail behind an All Stars horse.  You would have criticised Natalie for not having a go for the lead!  Most drivers would have handed up to one of the best horses in the field.

Amazing Dream had every chance - it just wasn't good enough on the night.  I don't believe it is racing in its best form.  No doubt Mark and Natalie had inside information on that when they worked them earlier in the week.

Call a foul if you wish and call it "Team Driving" but how else would you give the best advantage to both of your runners which are the two best runners in the field?  FFS it was 4 lengths back to the rest of the field!

19 minutes ago, the galah said:

If you look at  its record it has won 9 races either in front or parked over the last lap. 

It has had 16 wins so the other 45% of its runs it won differently!  One of the 9 you list was a 3 horse field FFS.  

Of the 10 Group races I listed above the difference is 50/50.  As I said the way it is driven is determined by circumstance and that is dictated largely by the fact Amazing Dream isn't a good starter.

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, hunterthepunter said:

lol I don't drink idiot. typical of you being a Ozzie bogan

Very sorry Hunter !     I actually meant I Had had the 2 bottles of wine , so my comments were poor lol....

and of course the mean bugger bit was just me trying to be funny in a good way (but wasn't it seems)

yes I tried to leave all the Bogans behind in Tas but being born there probably stuck with Bogan Blood for life  !! hahahaha.......

[Gammalite]

45 minutes ago, the galah said:

participants have different standards to others. This thread is an example of that. Thats my last word on this thread.

Well before you go let's summarize for you.

1. Giving the lead to a stablemate is Not match fixing.

2. Mark drives horses very well (and knows way more than you or I about race driving to WIN)

3. Trailing the leader is a PRIME position to be in a race. (especially when leader is a STRONG horse)

4.  NZ racing is quite a HIGH standard as Brodie said. ALLstars operates at a Very high standard so always in the SPOTLIGHT. whether that be the Winners circle Spotlight. or a Grandstand 'Drivers/critics  Spotlight. 

5. Amazing Dream every chance in the world to win the Group 1. (Marks drive in the NZ FFA was worse... lol)

6. Many more winners to you !! and all the hard working industry participants Out there !! good day.

[Mikie]

3 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Well before you go let's summarize for you.

1. Giving the lead to a stablemate is Not match fixing.

2. Mark drives horses very well (and knows way more than you or I about race driving to WIN)

3. Trailing the leader is a PRIME position to be in a race. (especially when leader is a STRONG horse)

4.  NZ racing is quite a HIGH standard as Brodie said. ALLstars operates at a Very high standard so always in the SPOTLIGHT. whether that be the Winners circle Spotlight. or a Grandstand 'Drivers/critics  Spotlight. 

5. Amazing Dream every chance in the world to win the Group 1. (Marks drive in the NZ FFA was worse... lol)

6. Many more winners to you !! and all the hard working industry participants Out there !! good day.

I'll second all that

Mikie