Was Vinnie Colgan hard done being given 8 days Suspension after Levin Classic 2021?

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

No doubt a bumping duel affects momentum - for both parties.   But also, give some thought to the potential damage caused to joints, tendons and muscles with sudden changes of direction and tempo - not to mention the confidence to put in, especially with a timid or delicate sort.

Come on Freda!  It wasn't too long ago on BOAY you were telling us how you and other youngsters used to push each other around in track gallops to win the icecream afterwards at the dairy!

We do tend to get a bit precious with our horses and forget that they are a herd animal.  If anyone has watched a big paddock with a dozen yearlings in it you can see much more rough and tumble than you'll ever see on a racecourse.  Or watch a Stallion being released into its "rest" paddock and seen it run full throttle round the paddock bucking and jumping.

In terms of injury during racing my guess is that more horses are injured from being "galloped on" while following or being followed in a straight line than any sideways buffering.  "Galloped on" being often an oxymoron as it infers it was by chance when it is often poor riding or lack of control by the Jockey.

Getting back to the Vinnie Colgan suspension - he spied a gap proceeded to push through it with the centrifugal force of rounding the bend and the camber helping.  Danielle and/or Brando tried hard to shut the door instead of balancing and galloping for home.

If you were worried about ligaments and tendons from sudden sideways movements then there would be a heap of horses not winning including Lonhro in the 2004 Australian Cup.

Mind you putting those damn blinkers on horses doesn't help prevent injury does it?

 

[Chief Stipe]

A few track surface issues in this one.

 

[Chief Stipe]

Sorry I'm on a roll.  Last video of soft horse porn!  But looking at this video you can see trainers don't really do that much except "redirect" a natural instinct.

 

[Huey]

12 hours ago, All The Aces said:

Danielle is riding very well but it was a below par ride on Brando. Her last two rides on the card were excellent though.

The mistake she made on Brando was not following Lisa Allpress on Bonham around when she went forward. She would have got a lovely run on Bonham's back and then slingshot her in the straight. Instead she stayed back and Lisa Allpress and Bonham established a winning break on Brando. 

 

Would he have been able to slingshot her though? the whole race turns out differently if he is placed somewhere else. That filly (Bonham) is very good and I think she deserves some credit despite the gorgeous ride Allpress gave her.

[Freda]

36 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Come on Freda!  It wasn't too long ago on BOAY you were telling us how you and other youngsters used to push each other around in track gallops to win the icecream afterwards at the dairy!

We do tend to get a bit precious with our horses and forget that they are a herd animal.  If anyone has watched a big paddock with a dozen yearlings in it you can see much more rough and tumble than you'll ever see on a racecourse.  Or watch a Stallion being released into its "rest" paddock and seen it run full throttle round the paddock bucking and jumping.

In terms of injury during racing my guess is that more horses are injured from being "galloped on" while following or being followed in a straight line than any sideways buffering.  "Galloped on" being often an oxymoron as it infers it was by chance when it is often poor riding or lack of control by the Jockey.

Getting back to the Vinnie Colgan suspension - he spied a gap proceeded to push through it with the centrifugal force of rounding the bend and the camber helping.  Danielle and/or Brando tried hard to shut the door instead of balancing and galloping for home.

If you were worried about ligaments and tendons from sudden sideways movements then there would be a heap of horses not winning including Lonhro in the 2004 Australian Cup.

Mind you putting those damn blinkers on horses doesn't help prevent injury does it?

 

Wtf do blinkers have to do with the discussion at hand?

And, wrt high-jinks when we were kids, we knew no better. Plus, we weren't galloping at speed.  Far from it, these were breakers. 

Horses at liberty can and do get hurt....to the point that one trainer i worked for wouldn't put his out for that very reason .   Too risky,he said, fit and full of feed, they'll get hurt. So can we, if skylarking and acting the goat...I still fail to see your point.

Mine was that a smooth and uninterrupted trip has to be better than one with a bit of argy- bargy.

[Chief Stipe]

18 minutes ago, Freda said:

Wtf do blinkers have to do with the discussion at hand?

It seriously impairs one of the senses horses use to protect themselves.  Just as a horse will try to avoid standing on a fallen Jockey they will try and avoid contact.  Trainers use blinkers to stop that behaviour.  Compare that to your post about how the English ride in their races.

I remember the rugby advice my father gave me - if you are in a contact position or at the bottom of a ruck keep your eyes open at all times.  I asked why and he said my body will react to look after itself even if my conscious mind is slow at processing what is happening.

[Freda]

9 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

It seriously impairs one of the senses horses use to protect themselves.  Just as a horse will try to avoid standing on a fallen Jockey they will try and avoid contact.  Trainers use blinkers to stop that behaviour.  Compare that to your post about how the English ride in their races.

Don't disagree at all with that.  Clearly, they are aware that a lot are happier with more space.

So, again, should we be trying to shove horses into tight spots when they would prefer not?

Some are tough as and love a dogfight...some don't.   I still don't see the point of an argument...and there is general agreement I think that having a bumping duel is disadvantageous to both parties.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Freda

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Freda said:

So, again, should we be trying to shove horses into tight spots when they would prefer not?

I don't believe the gap Vinnie went for was tight.  Danielle rode her horse to close it.  Without that in my opinion Brando would have spent more time staying balanced.

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, Freda said:

there is general agreement I think that having a bumping duel is disadvantageous to both parties.

Yes and it takes two to tango.  

[Chief Stipe]

Take the difference in decision making between say Danielle in the Brando race and that of Lisa Allpress recently in another race.  Off the top of my head I can't remember what the race was.  Lisa was asked after the win why she chose to come outside when there was a gap on the inside - her response was "I thought about it but then you don't want to get between the rail and Jonathan Riddell!"

Now some BOAY commentators would say that was a sign of a lack of aggression.  I would say it was experience and smart thinking.

[Freda]

31 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Take the difference in decision making between say Danielle in the Brando race and that of Lisa Allpress recently in another race.  Off the top of my head I can't remember what the race was.  Lisa was asked after the win why she chose to come outside when there was a gap on the inside - her response was "I thought about it but then you don't want to get between the rail and Jonathan Riddell!"

Now some BOAY commentators would say that was a sign of a lack of aggression.  I would say it was experience and smart thinking.

Yes, exactly.  Which, again, sorta bears out my point !

[Nerina 2]

Have really enjoyed hearing the debate about the fine art of riding racehorses.My interest in racing started way back in time when my stepfather took me to watch Mainbrace win the Waikato Guineas.He took us round to the start where Grenville Hughes had one hell of a job getting him into the rudimentary stalls.I remember the starter yelling to Grenville “you’ve had your time ,take him to the outside”. They started outside the stalls,but went on to win one of his 17 on end.My interest was started that day and along with rugby my main sporting interest.When we were playing rugby my mates and I went to the races in the morning,until we had to leave to play our game. Not so much the Champagne Lawn,but trying to back a winner!! The jockeys I think are part of the great tapestry of the sport,and does sadden me at times when they are suspended.
 

[Gammalite]

Quite a challenge is controlling these beasts through the run of a race . Jockeys asked to do their very best and Win.

I find it amusing when the best (danielle Johnson) win 4 races on the day, and run 2nd in the feature. Levin Classic, to another TOP rider and well credentialled horse. 

Then cops criticism . That's after copping the 'Bump' that the suspended jockey gave Brando as well. So all the issues that Freda and Chief mentioned all come into the Picture. 

Result is therefore affected. Very hard to win after that. Horse did very well with solid closing second placing.

Stewards need to take action. (By demand of everybody) suspension given.

[Nerina 2]

My last word on the Colgan suspension.Have heard from a close source that Danielle apologised to Vinnie while pulling their horses up.For what reason who would know.!Losing the ride on Concert Hall in the Taranaki Cup further punishment.

[Gammalite]

10 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Now some BOAY commentators would say that was a sign of a lack of aggression. 

Well whether Danielle and/or Colgan were 'punished' for Trying too hard is proving debateable.

It was a Group 1 so give it all you've got is the right idea there.

Bloody Ryan Maloney , punished the nation at the Gold Coast, stupidly getting onto heels like a learner with the Hot favourite ISOTOPE in a Million dollar to the winner Group1 on Sat.  Should have the book thrown at him IMO.

cost himself, owners , punters probably 100's of thousands of dollars? around the country (countries). 

Ironically he won that same race (Magic millions guineas ) last year with ALLIGATOR BLOOD. Since it was disqualified some time after, wonder if he has to give back the approx $100,000 riding Fee ???  lol. Double loser ?? 

[SLB2.0]

I got my money back (via a bonus bet) from Sportsbet. No chance the TAB would offer the same if a hot favourite went down in our top races.

[All The Aces]

On 1/18/2021 at 10:07 AM, Chief Stipe said:

Take the difference in decision making between say Danielle in the Brando race and that of Lisa Allpress recently in another race.  Off the top of my head I can't remember what the race was.  Lisa was asked after the win why she chose to come outside when there was a gap on the inside - her response was "I thought about it but then you don't want to get between the rail and Jonathan Riddell!"

Now some BOAY commentators would say that was a sign of a lack of aggression.  I would say it was experience and smart thinking.

Unlike when Lisa stuck to the fence and got the run through inside of Danielle at Awapuni last week (again beating Danielle on the favourite) on Bonham again. I went over to Awapuni to have two bets Bonham and Wononeohwon both trained by Johnno and Holly. Pretty nervous at the 250m when Lisa was looking for the run but it came and she squeezed through on the fence to win nicely.

Unfortunately Wononeohwon was late scratched at the barrier in the last so had to wait seven days until Trentham on Saturday to get the desired result. Only bet for the day.

Rapt for Johno and Holly that Bonham was able to back up and win the G1.