Timaru Stakes

[Ludwig]

The Timaru Cup gets run...at Timaru. But the Timaru Stakes always gets run at Christchurch. Can someone please enlighten as to why?

[Freda]

1 hour ago, Ludwig said:

The Timaru Cup gets run...at Timaru. But the Timaru Stakes always gets run at Christchurch. Can someone please enlighten as to why?

Something to do with a loss of a date, methinks.

Academic,  anyway....both will end up in ChCh eventually when Timaru gets wiped out.

[Ludwig]

14 minutes ago, Freda said:

Something to do with a loss of a date, methinks.

Academic,  anyway....both will end up in ChCh eventually when Timaru gets wiped out.

Thanks. All very grim in the south. Little racing north or south of Chch, and now the gradual demise of the ones to the south. 

[mikeynz]

1 hour ago, Ludwig said:

Thanks. All very grim in the south. Little racing north or south of Chch, and now the gradual demise of the ones to the south. 

No need to be,its only mismanagement that will be the sole cause of such situations.

[Freda]

14 hours ago, Ludwig said:

Thanks. All very grim in the south. Little racing north or south of Chch, and now the gradual demise of the ones to the south. 

Yes, I know.   It saddens me greatly.

Track closures have been on the agenda for a while, but now, locally anyway,  some of those meetings must shift to the AWT to justify it.   

I have been castigated for being  negative ,   living in the past ' like all you Kiwis who won't move forward ' ;   but - sentiment aside - shifting from a low-cost model to a high-cost model doesn't seem to be the way to increase revenue.  Will punter losses increase as a result?   I don't know.  But, sure as hell,  those that sit in offices don't either.

Inconsistent track surfaces and a wide variety of geographical differences have been cited as one reason for falling turnover.    But, to many punters that is part of the challenge of sorting out a value bet.   The off course bettors will still have their regular flutter while downing a jug after work...but will they bet more because it is an AW meeting and not at Oamaru or Timaru?    And the loss of local interest and a day out at the races is not going to increase either involvement or interest.   

As a training aid, yes, a big help certainly to the likes of Cambridge with its very wet winters and springs, and large numbers of horses.

There are a number of innovations that , in other jurisdictions, have been incorporated into training facilities since the days of working around a paddock, or common ground.

Hyperbaric chambers, swimming pools, water walkers/treadmills, uphill gallops, straight gallops....all modern, have their place - and cost.   Our industry, at this stage, can't afford any of this, unless a private benefactor was to roll up with the dosh.  But, the industry is now so depressed that I don't think any business case could be made for such an investment.

Of course, the AWT's  are using taxpayer money, and it is always easier to spend someone else's money than your own.

Cost savings with the closures?    the float trip, and vehicle costs for jockey/trainers, yes, fair enough.   But those costs aren't industry-subsidised, it is a matter of personal choice whether to go or not.   The provision of TAB and broadcasting, ok.  But the  Chief has clearly demonstrated how much of that is far too expensive for what is necessary.

Over the years, market forces have reduced quite a number of tracks, with  mostly positive results for the clubs that made that choice.   But, I don't see huge benefits to the wider industry as a result.

[Huey]

44 minutes ago, Freda said:

Yes, I know.   It saddens me greatly.

Track closures have been on the agenda for a while, but now, locally anyway,  some of those meetings must shift to the AWT to justify it.   

I have been castigated for being  negative ,   living in the past ' like all you Kiwis who won't move forward ' ;   but - sentiment aside - shifting from a low-cost model to a high-cost model doesn't seem to be the way to increase revenue.  Will punter losses increase as a result?   I don't know.  But, sure as hell,  those that sit in offices don't either.

Inconsistent track surfaces and a wide variety of geographical differences have been cited as one reason for falling turnover.    But, to many punters that is part of the challenge of sorting out a value bet.   The off course bettors will still have their regular flutter while downing a jug after work...but will they bet more because it is an AW meeting and not at Oamaru or Timaru?    And the loss of local interest and a day out at the races is not going to increase either involvement or interest.   

As a training aid, yes, a big help certainly to the likes of Cambridge with its very wet winters and springs, and large numbers of horses.

There are a number of innovations that , in other jurisdictions, have been incorporated into training facilities since the days of working around a paddock, or common ground.

Hyperbaric chambers, swimming pools, water walkers/treadmills, uphill gallops, straight gallops....all modern, have their place - and cost.   Our industry, at this stage, can't afford any of this, unless a private benefactor was to roll up with the dosh.  But, the industry is now so depressed that I don't think any business case could be made for such an investment.

Of course, the AWT's  are using taxpayer money, and it is always easier to spend someone else's money than your own.

Cost savings with the closures?    the float trip, and vehicle costs for jockey/trainers, yes, fair enough.   But those costs aren't industry-subsidised, it is a matter of personal choice whether to go or not.   The provision of TAB and broadcasting, ok.  But the  Chief has clearly demonstrated how much of that is far too expensive for what is necessary.

Over the years, market forces have reduced quite a number of tracks, with  mostly positive results for the clubs that made that choice.   But, I don't see huge benefits to the wider industry as a result.

Good points, I have a feeling and its only a feeling that the AWT's will be the real nail driven into the NZ racing coffin. I'm a huge advocate for participation in any sport, the AWT will reduce participation not increase it imho.

They also to my mind offer  a very boring spectacle to watch and appear to only suit certain types of horses. They will kill the character of NZ racing and produce a one flavour fits all model to the industry . What will also potentially happen as you've pointed out is the noms for the grass tracks will be massive creating further frustrations for owners and trainers in the industry and the industry will persist with the AWT no matter the cost to the industry just to try to prove a point. 

I still do not think we need the AWT, we need better management of the industry and the current facilities available. Unfortunately we have a governing body that work against most of those fundamentals.

[nomates]

37 minutes ago, Huey said:

Good points, I have a feeling and its only a feeling that the AWT's will be the real nail driven into the NZ racing coffin. I'm a huge advocate for participation in any sport, the AWT will reduce participation not increase it imho.

They also to my mind offer  a very boring spectacle to watch and appear to only suit certain types of horses. They will kill the character of NZ racing and produce a one flavour fits all model to the industry . What will also potentially happen as you've pointed out is the noms for the grass tracks will be massive creating further frustrations for owners and trainers in the industry and the industry will persist with the AWT no matter the cost to the industry just to try to prove a point. 

I still do not think we need the AWT, we need better management of the industry and the current facilities available. Unfortunately we have a governing body that work against most of those fundamentals.

What i fear happening is a public backlash if/when the A/W's become white elephants . The long list of legitimate questions about lack of figures showing costs to benefits etc .

I fear the it could lead to huge amount of public animosity and negativity towards racing .

But it's all good , we will still have 3 very good training facilities .

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, nomates said:

But it's all good , we will still have 3 very good training facilities .

I don't believe they are "very good training facilities" for a number of reasons.  They may be useful during wet months of the year but I don't see how they will help us produce a better quality product than the one we produce now.  

[nomates]

13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I don't believe they are "very good training facilities" for a number of reasons.  They may be useful during wet months of the year but I don't see how they will help us produce a better quality product than the one we produce now.  

I'm being facetious chief . Have some breaky .

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, nomates said:

I'm being facetious chief . Have some breaky .

Apologies.  The last couple of days have been Groundhog days for more reasons than one.  Didn't help yesterday going about my business to find that everywhere I visited had suddenly put back up the perspex barriers, mandatory hand wash and being cajoled into either scanning a silly QR code or writing a name on a clipboard.  

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Apologies.  The last couple of days have been Groundhog days for more reasons than one.  Didn't help yesterday going about my business to find that everywhere I visited had suddenly put back up the perspex barriers, mandatory hand wash and being cajoled into either scanning a silly QR code or writing a name on a clipboard.  

You mean everyone up that way doesn't automatically know who the Chief Stipe is , can't believe that .

[mikeynz]

4 hours ago, Huey said:

Good points, I have a feeling and its only a feeling that the AWT's will be the real nail driven into the NZ racing coffin. I'm a huge advocate for participation in any sport, the AWT will reduce participation not increase it imho.

They also to my mind offer  a very boring spectacle to watch and appear to only suit certain types of horses. They will kill the character of NZ racing and produce a one flavour fits all model to the industry . What will also potentially happen as you've pointed out is the noms for the grass tracks will be massive creating further frustrations for owners and trainers in the industry and the industry will persist with the AWT no matter the cost to the industry just to try to prove a point. 

I still do not think we need the AWT, we need better management of the industry and the current facilities available. Unfortunately we have a governing body that work against most of those fundamentals.

Canterbury recently have had very small fields so what do you think with the AWT automatically all the southern trainers will flock to Christchurch if it's the only place to race,I seriously doubt it,I've been looking at results from 15 or 20 years ago,gee the calandar in the South has changed a fair bit but one thing that hasn't changed is the fact that Oamaru and Washdyke are key winter race venue,if that's lost then the administration that make these decisions should not be in the job.

Cambridge are racing Wednesday meetings in the coming winter,I'm sure Tauranga,Rotorua,Te Rapa,Te Aroha will still be racing despite new track, maybe just not beating the crap out of them in winter months by having a few less days.

Getting back to the southern area I see the guy in charge of Wingatui in a article in ODT recently said they would welcome the trotting club racing on its grass track, not sure if that was including weekly winter meetings, it gets a wee bit wet there in winter.