nomates Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 I see looking at the acceptances this morning that both New Plymouth and Otago meetings on Saturday both are running 9 races , and both have had a race split , NP's was a R65 1800 and Otago's a R65 2200 , numbers wise much the same for all 4 races , but where Otago has both races with a stake of $22,500 , NP has one at $22,500 and a consolation at $10,000 , WHY? . Both Otago fields are 1/2 runners less than NP , just don't get the thought process around why one set of owners gets the full stake they nominated for but another set gets told " be grateful your getting a run " . This is the crap that is pushing owners out the door . Perhaps someone can enlighten me . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 I agree. We have had this conversation before but in my opinion the real issue is the $22,500 and tiered racing. The $10,000 "consolation" just reinforces the point that both are a load of crap. If there had been less horses nominated and those that were just happened to be those now in the consolation then the stake would have been $22,500! Now absurdity is further magnified by the disparity that you have pointed out. Did NZTR grade both "extra" races and then determine the stakes? If they did what was they criteria they used? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 I did see NZTR did say after NP nom's that if sufficient numbers they would split and run a consolation but didn't look at Otago . I just don't get why one meeting gets both at $22,500 and the other doesn't , it is doing some owners a great disservice . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Yes, but for once it isn't the southern ones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 Plus i see that they are throwing more soft Black Type around at NP , a G3 2yo race with 8 runners with only 1 winner and a Listed 3yo fillies race , with slightly better form . Neither race should have Black Type , nothing of any significance has come out of either race in the past 5 years , only Saracino has won anything resembling a good race . My understanding is that these races get BT by virtue of the quality of race form and producing horses that go on to become successful race horses . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 If they held a losers convention in Petone, it would be a sellout, there's not a brain between them, the owners should be revolting, but they don't, which begs the question, are they thick? apathetic, ambivalent or all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said: If they held a losers convention in Petone, it would be a sellout, there's not a brain between them, the owners should be revolting, but they don't, which begs the question, are they thick? apathetic, ambivalent or all? Stockholm syndrome . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Those 2 races at NP are very similar,why not the best race for the best stake and the rest for the lesser stake and maybe that race be penalty free,i floated this idea before for for some of those meetings down south,sometimes numbers blow out which in some ways is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 22 hours ago, nomates said: I see looking at the acceptances this morning that both New Plymouth and Otago meetings on Saturday both are running 9 races , and both have had a race split , NP's was a R65 1800 and Otago's a R65 2200 , numbers wise much the same for all 4 races , but where Otago has both races with a stake of $22,500 , NP has one at $22,500 and a consolation at $10,000 , WHY? . Both Otago fields are 1/2 runners less than NP , just don't get the thought process around why one set of owners gets the full stake they nominated for but another set gets told " be grateful your getting a run " . This is the crap that is pushing owners out the door . Perhaps someone can enlighten me . The higher rated horses are in the first at NP.. The Club sets the agenda and possibly thinking the lesser ranked have a better chance agin lesser ability.... You could always contact Carey Hobbs...Google Naki RC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, Thomass said: You could always contact Carey Hobbs...Google Naki RC Have you contacted the BGP yet to discuss your allegations of "misogyny and sexual boasting"? However in this Topic you missed the point not surprisingly. It is the bigger issue of the futility and meaninglessness of Tiered Racing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, Thomass said: The higher rated horses are in the first at NP.. Which makes a mockery of the so called "Tiered Racing"! As I pointed out in an earlier post if the nominations had been lower and their average rating lower the stake would still have been $22,500! Surely you are not suggesting that the stake for an R65 on a Saturday should be determined by a quality assessment of who pitches up? Under the rating system R65 is an R65! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 22 hours ago, nomates said: Plus i see that they are throwing more soft Black Type around at NP , a G3 2yo race with 8 runners with only 1 winner and a Listed 3yo fillies race , with slightly better form . Neither race should have Black Type , nothing of any significance has come out of either race in the past 5 years , only Saracino has won anything resembling a good race . My understanding is that these races get BT by virtue of the quality of race form and producing horses that go on to become successful race horses . How the 2yo race has retained G3 status given the fields over the past decade is beyond me? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 39 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Have you contacted the BGP yet to discuss your allegations of "misogyny and sexual boasting"? However in this Topic you missed the point not surprisingly. It is the bigger issue of the futility and meaninglessness of Tiered Racing! Please don't use sex and Carey in the same post... Suffice to say Boyz Get pLaid know my views and are becoming increasingly embarrassed by their successful 'movement' into Frat Boys behaviour sans Females to keep them in check... Im sure these Fratters will join the misogonistic Northern Club...when they get into big boys pants and when their voices break.... Until then Women will just refuse to join in their frattiness and join a pétanque club instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 41 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Which makes a mockery of the so called "Tiered Racing"! As I pointed out in an earlier post if the nominations had been lower and their average rating lower the stake would still have been $22,500! Surely you are not suggesting that the stake for an R65 on a Saturday should be determined by a quality assessment of who pitches up? Under the rating system R65 is an R65! Tiered racing certainly works here... One only has to have a modicum of 'form analysis knowledge' to realise that higher rated horses target higher stakes... If they'd split races to an even rating width the lower raters would have more than likely been racing for a Starters fee... Here the winner of the 10k race at least has a chance for a mid week stake agin similar ability horses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Thomass said: The higher rated horses are in the first at NP.. The Club sets the agenda and possibly thinking the lesser ranked have a better chance agin lesser ability.... You could always contact Carey Hobbs...Google Naki RC You miss my point , why has one club been allowed to split and keep the higher stake for both but at the other they put a " consolation " on . At NP they split them on ratings but at Otago they just mix them up , why different methods . I'm sure CH had very little say in it . Plus i shouldn't have to ring anybody , if we were run as a professional friggin outfit we wouldn't have to be querying this kind of shit . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 57 minutes ago, Thomass said: Tiered racing certainly works here... We have barely enough horses to work on one level far less trying to tier them . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Thomass said: Tiered racing certainly works here... There is ample evidence to show the opposite. The quality of our horses are declining as is their number. So you'd be an idiot to target a midweek race when you have the same chance of winning a race double the stake (or more) on a Saturday. An R65 rating is the same whether you race on a Wednesday or a Saturday. If it isn't then the Rating system is shyte as well! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Thomass said: The higher rated horses are in the first at NP.. The Club sets the agenda and possibly thinking the lesser ranked have a better chance agin lesser ability.... You could always contact Carey Hobbs...Google Naki RC At a quick look the actual formlines are similar,that's what I noticed but hey if that's the criteria then so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 35 minutes ago, nomates said: You miss my point , why has one club been allowed to split and keep the higher stake for both but at the other they put a " consolation " on . At NP they split them on ratings but at Otago they just mix them up , why different methods . I'm sure CH had very little say in it . Plus i shouldn't have to ring anybody , if we were run as a professional friggin outfit we wouldn't have to be querying this kind of shit . Under NZTR 'Racing Policy' Clubs/NZTR can put up any stake they like.... Carey may have wanted an extra tight betting race with similar high ratings in that band rather than weakening races with out of form horses. If you're shy just email him....he's very open to explaining....failing that contact NZTR Oh actually better still...and we can't all watch Bernie Sordinary said in his last monthly Facebook LIVE... "ask me anything you want"...too true...although mostly he edits them to suit his agenda and ignores tricky annoying queries...but try anyway His girl Friday vets the questions mary.burgess@nztr.co.nz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 29 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: There is ample evidence to show the opposite. The quality of our horses are declining as is their number. So you'd be an idiot to target a midweek race when you have the same chance of winning a race double the stake (or more) on a Saturday. An R65 rating is the same whether you race on a Wednesday or a Saturday. If it isn't then the Rating system is shyte as well! Yea na....we've dealt with this...keep up Its counterintuitive to come to any other conclusion than 'mid weak races are NOT targeted by superior trainers with superior horseflesh" Imagine Jelly Williams telling his owners he's set his best R 65 horse for a mid weak and "it'll be tuned up for that day" Hence...mid weak 65's have inferior speed ratings to Premier" FFS...wake up.... I put Curious to the sword over this one and she's still licking her hurt ego... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Thomass said: Under NZTR 'Racing Policy' Clubs/NZTR can put up any stake they like.... Clubs can't just put up whatever stake they want , there have been many instances od clubs wanting to increase stakes of lower rated races to be told no . Some clubs i.e. Waverley get to put extra into their cup races . 2 minutes ago, Thomass said: Carey may have wanted an extra tight betting race with similar high ratings in that band rather than weakening races with out of form horses. So why did NZTR put on 2 races at Otago where the ratings were mixed between both . But you are missing my original point , why are Otago getting to run 2 65's with a stake of $22,500 but at NP they have to run a consolation worth $10,000 . My point being the inconsistency , why are some owners being looked after but not others . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, nomates said: Clubs can't just put up whatever stake they want , there have been many instances od clubs wanting to increase stakes of lower rated races to be told no . Some clubs i.e. Waverley get to put extra into their cup races . So why did NZTR put on 2 races at Otago where the ratings were mixed between both . But you are missing my original point , why are Otago getting to run 2 65's with a stake of $22,500 but at NP they have to run a consolation worth $10,000 . My point being the inconsistency , why are some owners being looked after but not others . No wrong...Gisbourne used to do it and just a few weeks ago I think it was Riverton who added 5K on to maidens...some club down South Look under Racing Policy in NZTR's Rules section...Its in there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Why don't we run our "Premier Meetings" on a Wednesday? We can't compete with the quality of racing from OZ on a Saturday. Perhaps we might earn more revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 30 minutes ago, Thomass said: No wrong...Gisbourne used to do it and just a few weeks ago I think it was Riverton who added 5K on to maidens...some club down South Look under Racing Policy in NZTR's Rules section...Its in there Well Gisbourne raced once a year and i don't know why Riverton did but there have been other clubs wanting to but knocked back . Again inconsistency . What about answering the other part of my post , are you telling me CH wanted to short change one set of owners by only running a consolation , he doesn't fund it so why would he care . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 I'm not surprised you've got no mates nomates....you can't be bothered doing any work! Under Racing Policy DIVISION OF RACES 5.1 The factors that will be taken into account when considering whether to divide a race include but are not limited to the following: (a) the number of horses accepted for the race; (b) the maximum starting limit for the race; (c) the number of races already programmed for that race meeting; (d) whether or not more than one race on the programme for that race meeting meets the criteria for division; (e) whether any races on the programme for that race meeting are likely to be, or have been deleted; (f) the class, distance and advertised value of the race being considered for division; (g) the upcoming racing opportunities at other race meetings in the relevant class and distance range; (h) the likely track condition; (i) the availability of a timeslot to conduct an additional race at that race meeting; (j) the number of horses accepted for the race that are also accepted in another race or races within a 48-hour period; (k) the availability of funding for an additional race; and (l) whether a jumping race or races on the same programme is/are likely to be divided. 5.2 NZTR reserve the right to run a consolation race where the horses will be split by way of ratings into a top and bottom half. If, where the division is made, there are two or more horses with the same rating, the Handicapper will determine which horses are drawn into the first division and which are drawn into the consolation division. Following the release of the two fields, those who are on the ballot in the original race (bearing a higher stake), must run in that race if presented with an opportunity through a scratching, they cannot opt to run in the consolation race. When a race is divided in consolation format, the stake will be determined by NZTR and the relevant Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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