Chief Stipe Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 22 minutes ago, Horace said: This whole episode just gets smellier and smellier. According to the j.c.a. report, the trainer of the horse ( J Richards ) contacted the r.i.u. and requested that Opie be allowed to ride the horse. The r.i.u. had earlier made a ruling that he couldn't accept rides at 57.5 without permission. So did Richards give the r.i.,u an assurance that Opie would ride at 57.5? If so, clearly it was bullshit. Secondly, according to the j.c.a. report, Opie told them ( j.c.a. ) that he tried to get off the horse twice, including on the morning of the race, and was told by a 'connection' of the horse to 'get down there and do the best you can'!! What? Guess who that would have been! If the r.i.u. aren't makiing an investigation into what looks like a conspiracy to cheat then it just confirms what certain people who post on here have been saying. There are a few weak flaws in your conspiracy argument. What weight did he Weigh Out at? From the JCA report: The Committee heard from Mr Barron, the Clerk of Scales, who said that Mr Bosson weighed out at 57.9kg and weighed in at 58.7kg, which was 0.8kg over his weigh-out weight. Mr Barron added that he checked the gear at weigh-out time and that it was all there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 I am finding all this a tad tedious. I have every sympathy for Mr Bosson, and agree that .8 kg was not going to make a difference. It seems he didn't 'cheat', and it's pretty likely that he had a sip of water after weighing out, he must have been feeling awful. It doesn't take very much fluid to make a difference in those circumstances. But there cannot be rules for some and not for others. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 17 minutes ago, Freda said: I am finding all this a tad tedious. Geez Freda you should know that we can't get in the way of a good conspiracy theory! 😉 What is the vest allowance - 1kg? Does that explain the 57.9kg Weigh Out weight? Well it doesn't really as the Weigh Out weight less 1kg is 56.9kg. Which puts Opie's Weigh Out weight at 400gms over. So subtract 1kg from his Weigh In weight (58.7kg) and you get 57.7kg. So effectively Opie only increased his weight by 400gms. A cup of water is 240mls = 250gms. So Opie had just over a Cup and a half of water. Yep crime of the century and a very expensive cup of water. Still wouldn't have changed the result of the race. Assuming the horse weighs 450kg's then he carried 0.09% of his body weight extra. The horse would have lost a few kilos more during the race probably before he even got to the barrier!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) The vest weight is not counted..i.e 1 kg over is factored in. Some do have very 'light' vests though. And the 'weight' of a sip - or a cup - of water doesn't equate to the difference registered on the scales. Edited February 9, 2021 by Freda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 11 minutes ago, Freda said: The vest weight is not counted..i.e 1 kg over is factored in. Some do have very 'light' vests though. And the 'weight' of a sip - or a cup - of water doesn't equate to the difference registered on the scales. You are missing my point Freda. The JCA report states that he Weighed Out at 57.9kg. Now the only way you can get to 56.5kg's which was the allocated weight of Quattro Quinta is to subtract the 1kg vest allowance AND allow for an amount LESS than 500gms which is allowed to be over. I assumed 400gms. Which takes it to 56.9kg's. 15 minutes ago, Freda said: And the 'weight' of a sip - or a cup - of water doesn't equate to the difference registered on the scales. So Opie weighed in 800gms over. The JCA report records the Weight as 58.7kg. Subtract 1kg vest = 57.7kg. Subtract the earlier 400gms allowed and you get 57.3kg. So we have a 400gm difference. 1ml = 1gm. 1 litre = 1 kilogram. 400gm = 400ml's. One cup of water is 250mls = 250gms. Now he may have had 3 cups of water and didn't sweat them all out! At no stage did Opie say he had "some sips of water" - what he did say is the following: Mr Bosson for his part said that he did not change any gear but that he had drunk too much water after weighing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Freda said: But there cannot be rules for some and not for others. Where in this case were there different rules that are not applied to others? The minimum recommended penalty is a $200 fine. In this case the fine was $1,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horace Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: There are a few weak flaws in your conspiracy argument. What weight did he Weigh Out at? From the JCA report: The Committee heard from Mr Barron, the Clerk of Scales, who said that Mr Bosson weighed out at 57.9kg and weighed in at 58.7kg, which was 0.8kg over his weigh-out weight. Mr Barron added that he checked the gear at weigh-out time and that it was all there. So he weighed out over the 57.5 kg which the r.i.u. stipulated he couldn't accept rides for unless given special dispensation to do so ( in this case falsely because Richards must have told the r.i.u he WOULD ride at 57.5).right there if the r.i.u. on duty ( one of whom was Matt Williamson who used to ride with Opie!) had regard for the rules they would have stood Opie down.Michael McNab, who rides for Te akau, was at the meeting. In fact McNab rode Vernanme to win carrying 55.5 so clearly could have ridden this horse at the correct weight. This is not about Opie. Surely its clear what is going on here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 23 minutes ago, Horace said: Surely its clear what is going on here. Why is it Jamie Richard's responsibility to tell the RIU? Doesn't the responsibility clearly lie with Bosson? It isn't clear "what is going on here" perhaps you should state what "it" clearly is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horace Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Why is it Jamie Richard's responsibility to tell the RIU? Doesn't the responsibility clearly lie with Bosson? It isn't clear "what is going on here" perhaps you should state what "it" clearly is. You need to re-visit the j.c.a. report. " permission was sought by the trainer of the horse for Mr Bosson to take the ride with approval being given by the Stewards'. So whatever Richards told the Stewards pursuaded them to let Opie ride the horse. When Opie turned up at the racetrack the first thing the Stewards should have done was check his weight and determine if he was going to be able to ride the horse at its carded weight as they had been told he would. Clearly he wasn't going to be able to do that, and the Stewards then should have stood him down as they must have been misled by Richards. As above, McNab was available, is a TeAkau rider,and could ride at the correct weight. He did not have a ride in the applicable race. Go figure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 41 minutes ago, Horace said: You need to re-visit the j.c.a. report. " permission was sought by the trainer of the horse for Mr Bosson to take the ride with approval being given by the Stewards'. So whatever Richards told the Stewards pursuaded them to let Opie ride the horse. When Opie turned up at the racetrack the first thing the Stewards should have done was check his weight and determine if he was going to be able to ride the horse at its carded weight as they had been told he would. Clearly he wasn't going to be able to do that, and the Stewards then should have stood him down as they must have been misled by Richards. As above, McNab was available, is a TeAkau rider,and could ride at the correct weight. He did not have a ride in the applicable race. Go figure. The permission sought was presumably as per the RIU condition NOT permission to ride overweight. Why wasn't Bosson told he couldn't ride because he was over and the trainer advised when he weighed in? Then permission would have had to be applied for to ride over weight. It appears neither happened. The fact is the JCA report is ambiguous. If you do the calculations I did then you get a clearer explanation of what happened. Briefly: Bosson weighed out less than 500gms over. That is allowed. Bosson weighed in heavier on return by 800gms. That is 300gms more than when he weighed out. That isn't allowed and he was fined. The NZTR site still says carried 56.5kg which is what he weighed out at albeit less than 500gms over. I don't see any conspiracy here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 43 minutes ago, Horace said: Clearly he wasn't going to be able to do that, and the Stewards then should have stood him down as they must have been misled by Richards. You have no evidence that the Stewards allowed Bosson to Weigh Out overweight. There would have been a declaration if they had. I say again do the sums and allow for the 1kg vest allowance AND the less than 500gm overweight tolerance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Freda said: I am finding all this a tad tedious. I have every sympathy for Mr Bosson, and agree that .8 kg was not going to make a difference. It seems he didn't 'cheat', and it's pretty likely that he had a sip of water after weighing out, he must have been feeling awful. It doesn't take very much fluid to make a difference in those circumstances. But there cannot be rules for some and not for others. Seriously Freda " a sip of water"? Youll note actual professional Jockeys refreshing mouths at the start and spitting water out. . . . This bloke is our MVP and he can't behave professionally . . . . What a sad indictment on him and the hopeless Feds allowing this b/s to happen. . . . Edited February 9, 2021 by Thomass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Yeah.point. Whatever, he needs to make a decision, taking his health seriously into account. He can't keep doing this to himself. There are many riders who are, or who have been, in his position..there comes a time to call a halt to it all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Freda said: Yeah.point. Whatever, he needs to make a decision, taking his health seriously into account. He can't keep doing this to himself. There are many riders who are, or who have been, in his position..there comes a time to call a halt to it all. Should Hazel Schofer give up now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Actually why shouldn't all these Jockey's give the game away. All have had weight related issues in the last 12 months. Opie Bosson Hazel Schofer Leith Innes Troy Harris K Chowdhoory B Lammas M Hashizume D Turner Cameron Lammas Ryan Elliot J Lowry K Asano A Calder N Downs Z Moki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Some people cannot see past Te Akau. A lot more likely Big Dave threatened to scratch the lot if Opie wasn't allowed to ride. If Johnson(CW that is) carried on like this they would throw the book at him I don't think the Jockeys now would have anywhere near the levels of deprivation that they had in the seventies/eighties/nineties and earlier with lasix and the various other weight loss techniques AND the lower weights applicable in those times. Just ask Morty what it was like But all this shows clearly why Opie(admittedly one of our greats) is not keen on the Aussie option - he would not be allowed to consistently flout the rules over there and neither would one stable be allowed to dictate the way racing is run(notwithstanding the Freedman/Makybe Diva incident) Another thing about the seventies in NZ - the stipes made calls and were respected and the cream(Show Gate Grey Way Battle Heights La Mer et al) rose to the top on merit not because their trainers arranged to have water slopped all over the show. No wonder so many people pine for the good old days in NZ racing 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 18 minutes ago, Reefton said: Some people cannot see past Te Akau. A lot more likely Big Dave threatened to scratch the lot if Opie wasn't allowed to ride. Don't let the facts get in the way of your story. The only horse they had in for the day was Quattro Quinta! 19 minutes ago, Reefton said: But all this shows clearly why Opie(admittedly one of our greats) is not keen on the Aussie option Of course nothing to do with his family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 28 minutes ago, Reefton said: he would not be allowed to consistently flout the rules over there and neither would one stable be allowed to dictate the way racing is run In the list I posted above there is more than one recidivist offender. As for Australia - I suggest you do some more fact checking. There are exceptions made every week over there in all of the States. Which is not surprising when you consider that they have a wider effective range of weights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Perhaps if we make all races minimum weight 60kg , that will solve all the probs for the jocks , tough on the horses but they're machines they will cope . Raising minimum weights has been the easy solve for a few years now so why not again . Reason , because jockey's are getting bigger . I mean we can't ask jockey's to be more professional , can we . It's only their profession . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Perhaps we could just start importing light weight South American jocks , they seem to proliferate American racing . I'm sure there would be plenty willing to come to this country for a better quality of life . Problem solved . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, nomates said: Raising minimum weights has been the easy solve for a few years now so why not again . Reason , because jockey's are getting bigger . I mean we can't ask jockey's to be more professional , can we . It's only their profession . The human race is getting bigger. I'm picking the last time you were 48kg's naked and dripping wet was your first day at kindergarten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Actually why shouldn't all these Jockey's give the game away. All have had weight related issues in the last 12 months. Opie Bosson Hazel Schofer Leith Innes Troy Harris K Chowdhoory B Lammas M Hashizume D Turner Cameron Lammas Ryan Elliot J Lowry K Asano A Calder N Downs Z Moki What a load of crap . . , . , . , Read this . , . , .but we ALLREADY knew this . , . , In the opinion of the Committee the aggravating features are many and are listed as follows: 1) Warned for being overweight on weighing in following his ride on Melody Belle at Trentham on 30 January. 2) Mr Bosson has had several weight-related breaches. Since 31 March 2018 Mr Bosson has had 13 breaches for weight-related matters, excluding warnings from Stipendiary Stewards. 3) Mr Bosson’s record is concerning and at best could be described as unenviable. 4) Punters, who are the lifeblood of racing, expect and are entitled to believe that the weight a Jockey weighs out at will be the same as when he weighs in following the race. It's a dead set Betty Crocker Lets face the inevitable . , . , .Opee will retire when the new Whip rules come in . , . , Emily said "he strongly supports the Whip" Yep . , . ,it'll all become too much for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, Thomass said: What a load of crap . . , . , . , Read this . , . , .but we ALLREADY knew this . , . , In the opinion of the Committee the aggravating features are many and are listed as follows: 1) Warned for being overweight on weighing in following his ride on Melody Belle at Trentham on 30 January. 2) Mr Bosson has had several weight-related breaches. Since 31 March 2018 Mr Bosson has had 13 breaches for weight-related matters, excluding warnings from Stipendiary Stewards. 3) Mr Bosson’s record is concerning and at best could be described as unenviable. 4) Punters, who are the lifeblood of racing, expect and are entitled to believe that the weight a Jockey weighs out at will be the same as when he weighs in following the race. Do some bloody homework for a change. In the list there is more than one recidivist offender. Hell the list would get a lot longer if you went back to March 2018. Why don't you post this crap on your Twitter account? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 27 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: The human race is getting bigger. I'm picking the last time you were 48kg's naked and dripping wet was your first day at kindergarten. Horses aren't getting bigger tho , there comes a point where the animals welfare has to be taken into account . What's my weight got to do with it , i don't want to ride racehorses . I wanted to be a professional footballer but not quick enough and injury prone , athletes have to accept their limitations and work with what they have been given . The one thing i do wonder about with OB is why everything works so well for long periods but then it all falls apart . What changes in his life to bring it on . It is summer when it is supposed to be easier to maintain weight levels . I hope for racings sake he gets it under control , but not at a risk to his health or future . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLB2.0 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 If a thoroughbred can carry 70kg over 5500m, I'm sure they can carry 60kg over 1000m. The weights need to be raised. I don't know why they are so low - does anyone have the actual answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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