curious Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 What kind of conversation do you have to have with the stipes to cop a $1200 fine? I heard she might have told them to go forth and multiply themselves but even so, $1200? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Not her first offence though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 13, 2021 Author Share Posted February 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Not her first offence though. Trainer H Wynyard admitted a charge of misconduct in that she spoke to a Stipendiary Steward in an inappropriate manner with the Judicial Committee imposing a fine in the amount of $1,200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, curious said: Trainer H Wynyard admitted a charge of misconduct in that she spoke to a Stipendiary Steward in an inappropriate manner with the Judicial Committee imposing a fine in the amount of $1,200. Yes but as I said it isn't her first offence in terms of misconduct is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 Still I've always felt that they've treated "bad" language far harsher than other offences. Or maybe it is just that they've got it in for some people and that's all they can get them for? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 22 minutes ago, Mark D said: Still I've always felt that they've treated "bad" language far harsher than other offences. Or maybe it is just that they've got it in for some people and that's all they can get them for? and others they just don't get ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Mark D said: Still I've always felt that they've treated "bad" language far harsher than other offences. Or maybe it is just that they've got it in for some people and that's all they can get them for? Seems to be who you direct the language at. Better to say to a Stipe "Yes Sir, but I don't agree Sir" dripping with sarcasm than to say "F#@K Off you silly old C#@T!" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 57 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Seems to be who you direct the language at. Better to say to a Stipe "Yes Sir, but I don't agree Sir" dripping with sarcasm than to say "F#@K Off you silly old C#@T!" Not the point I was making CS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) So this is what you get when the Racing Industry has a Rolls Royce type JCA... Just like a High Court...only no Black Cloths on the noggin when dishing out Justice... ...ffs, just find them GUILTY az and move on with a simple fine...rather than a MASSIVE overkill investigation containing 'natural justice and free speech' No such thing as free speech when dealing with Stipes... Ms Wynyard was present at the hearing. She indicated on the Information that she admitted the breach and confirmed her admission to the Committee. However, when asked by the Committee Chair if she understood the nature of the charge, she advised that although she admits the breach, she disputes the words that were allegedly directed at the Stipendiary Steward. On that basis the Committee accepted Ms Wynyard’s guilty plea but sought formal proof from two witnesses who Stewards advised would prove the particulars of the charge. Accordingly, evidence was heard from the Clerk of the Course Mr T Wenn and Stipendiary Steward Ms V Algar. Evidence of Mr Wenn Mr Wenn advised the Committee that whilst in his role as Clerk of the Course he was in the area where horses were being marshalled to bring them in to the parade ring then on to the birdcage. He said that he overheard Stipendiary Steward Ms Algar instructing Ms Wynyard to “get this horse into the birdcage”. He said that as a result Hollie (Ms Wynyard) got fired up and said, “you can go and get F…ked”. Mr Wenn said that in response Ms Algar questioned Ms Wynyard asking did you just tell me “to go and get f…ked”. Mr Wenn reiterated that, that Ms Wynyard was fired up. In response to a question from the Committee Mr Wenn confirmed the words used by Ms Wynyard. Under cross examination from Ms Wynyard, she put it to Mr Wenn that the words she used were “F off”.She further stated that she directed worse words at Ms Algar; namely that “she was a little Hitler”. In reply Mr Wenn confirmed his earlier evidence in terms of what he believed was said. Evidence of Ms Algar Trainee Stipendiary Steward Ms Algar advised that part of her race day duties included checking horse in the parade ring and ensuring they moved into the birdcage. She said that in this regard she had just finished the plate inspection of horses in the parade and Ms Wynyard, was the last the bring her horse (KEY) into the ring. Ms Algar said she told Ms Wynyard to take her horse through into the birdcage. Ms Wynyard told her she was waiting for her jockey and would not go through into the birdcage. In doing so, it was Ms Algar’s evidence that Ms Wynyard directed the following comments at her; “F…. you and you are like Hitler”. Evidence of Ms Wynyard Ms Wynyard disputed the actual words used. She said that she did not recall using the words “F…. you”, but rather she said that her actual words were “F…. off …..you are a little Hitler”. Ms Wynyard further stated that she believed an arrangement had been made with Stewards (by her co-trainer Mr Benner) concerning her horse. She said that she has previously had a ‘run in’ with Ms Algar, who she said is very vigilant and does not understand that it is not always “clear cut with horses”. Ms Wynyard concluded her evidence by stating that never used the words “F…k you” but conceded that she said “F…. Off”. Decision: As Ms Wynyard admitted the charge it was deemed to be proved. Additionally, the Committee is satisfied after hearing evidence from Mr Wenn, Ms Algar and Ms Wynyard that the language used, in the circumstances, does constitute misconduct. Mr Wenn is independent, and he was quite clear about what he heard and the fact that Ms Wynyard in his words was “fired up”. Ms Wynyard is a Licensed Trainer and as such is bound by the Rules of Racing. Furthermore, it is a play on words whether she said F you or F off, as we believe that the language which was directed at Ms Algar is well beyond what an Official should reasonably be expected to bear and therefore amounts to misconduct. Submission For Penalty: Mr Oatham submitted that contrary to Ms Wynyard’s evidence no special arrangements had been made for her horse in relation to the parade ring. He said that the only accommodation made by Stewards was for KEY to wear a blindfold when being placed into the barrier stalls. He said that Ms Algar’s actions were quite reasonable, and she was only doing her job. He said that in terms of the charge it does not matter what the exact words used were, whether they be F you or get F’ed. Mr Oatham submitted that Ms Wynyard had breached the Misconduct Rule once previously, namely last June 2020 in relation to a trackwork incident. The matter was dealt with by way of NRI and Ms Wynyard was fined $1000 and ordered to participate in anger management counselling. Mr Wynyard submitted that she completed the course but has yet to pay the fine (as she has not received an account). She said that it was a big race day, with high pressure. She said her filly had previously experienced problems at the barrier, and everything she said to Ms Algar was in the heat of the moment. She said she was now sorry about the way she spoke to Ms Algar. Reasons For Penalty: The JCA Penalty Guide does not specify a starting point for misconduct as a breach of this nature can cover a multitude of situations and penalties. Specific facts as well as factors concerning culpability and the personal circumstances of the Respondent need to be considered. The Committee is appreciative of the fact that the words used by Ms Wynyard must be considered in light of the time, place, and context. Whilst the use of an occasional or one-off expletive may be acceptable in some settings and, in the heat of the moment; it can never be acceptable for a License Holder to direct such language at an Official (i.e., Stipendiary Steward) in the execution of their duty, in response to a directive, in a very public setting. Further, we understand that the language was overheard by at least two other persons who were in the vicinity. There may well have been others who overheard the language, and, in our view, this does not reflect well on both Ms Wynyard and on such a big occasion, notably Waikato RC’s premier meeting for the year. There are several precedent cases of misconduct, but very few where language or behaviour has been directed at a Stipendiary Steward in the execution of their duty. We have taken cognisance of two most recent (Harness Racing) cases where abuse has been directed at Stewards; namely: RIU v Habraken (2020) – Misconducted himself by repeated use of obscene language directed at a Stipendiary Steward. Fined $1250. RIU v B Orange (2020) – Misconducted himself by repeatedly telling RIU staff to f… off when lawfully investigating a racing matter. Total fine imposed of $1000. A distinguishing and aggravating factor when comparing this case to the above cases is that this is Ms Wynyard’s second breach of the Rule within the past 12 months. On this and the previous occasion she has directed unnecessary, inappropriate, and unacceptable language at Industry participants. Ms Wynyard advised the Committee that following the previous breach she has sought professional help. We encourage her to continue with this programme. In the final analysis the penalty we impose must be proportionate and balanced to denounce misconduct of this nature and act as a deterrent. Therefore, we determine that a fine of $1200 is appropriate in the circumstances of this case. .. Edited February 22, 2021 by Thomass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, Thomass said: So this is what you get when the Racing Industry has a Rolls Royce type JCA... Just like a High Court...only no Black Cloths on the noggin when dishing out Justice... ...ffs, just find them GUILTY az and move on with a simple fine...rather than a MASSIVE overkill investigation containing 'natural justice and free speech' No such thing as free speech when dealing with Stipes... The alternative will be much more expensive and because of that likely to lead to injustice as only the wealthy will be able to appeal through the normal court system aka Opie Bosson. There is such a thing as "free speech" when you consider the outcome of the Morton vs Purcell case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Pffffft.." This is how the Oz system works.... Stipe Algar and COC Wenn hear Hols inform an official to sex and travel... Auto fine for 'bringing racing into disrepute' Now...a High Court type 'inquiry' with a Girl Friday getting paid big bucks to type a whole load of b/s out to 'Supreme Court' expense.. ...which we can't afford Good old Morts 'free speech' cost him and the Industry big bucks.... Now he's broke...like his mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Unfortunately the young lady in question has a long history of volitile behavior , i was told from a couple of trainers that no longer train there that apparently most mornings she could be heard giving someone or something a good bellowing out , she could be heard from a couple of hundred mtrs away , she is not scared to voice her opinion if things aren't going well . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Thomass said: Good old Morts 'free speech' cost him and the Industry big bucks.... Now he's broke...like his mate Liberty costs. I'm not sure who "his mate" is. Can you enlighten us? So you want to legislate manners now? As for free speech you have said it yourself you can't write what you write on BOAY on Twitter. Go figure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Yep the NON Rolls Royce system works really well - NOT! Trainer Robert Heathcote. Pic: AAP. STEWARDS Group 1 trainer to fight misconduct charge over verbal spray at jockey Article Author Ben Dorries 2:46PM23 February 2021 Multiple Group 1 winning trainer Rob Heathcote will engage a high-powered legal firm to launch an appeal after being found guilty of a misconduct charge which he insists arose out of a private post-race conversation with a jockey. Heathcote does not deny saying “f... you’ to Mark Du Plessis in a heated debrief at Eagle Farm when the trainer claimed Du Plessis did not follow instructions to lead when Stuttering finished third as the $3.40 second favourite in a race on February 6. But Heathcote is adamant no-one else on course heard his remarks which the trainer taped on his phone and sent to Stuttering’s owners. Brisbane stewards only became aware of the matter when the 49-second audio clip of the exchange was circulated on social media. Stewards last Saturday convened an inquiry and found Heathcote guilty of a misconduct charge stating he “did misconduct himself after the running of Race 9 by way of inappropriate language directed to jockey M Du Plessis.” Heathcote was fined $500, half of which was suspended, after being found guilty of the charge which falls under the category of conduct detrimental to the interests of racing. It could become an interesting test case for the racing industry with Heathcote to lodge an appeal. He is determined to fight the matter on principal. “I said ‘f you Mark.” Never at any other time did I swear,” Heathcote told Racenet. “No-one was around me and I only recorded it for my owners. “No-one except me and the jockey heard what I said at the time. “It was just me and the jockey, the jockey hasn’t made a complaint. “I said what I said on the day for the benefit of my owners so they could hear my response to the jockey and the jockey’s response to me. “It was a private thing between me and the jockey. “One of the owners posted it on social media and the stewards came up to me two weeks later.” Mark Du Plessis. Pic: AAP. Heathcote, who has won 11 Group 1s including seven with the champion Queensland sprinter Buffering, is engaging legal eagles to fight the matter. He says he couldn’t care about being $250 out of pocket but wants to clear his name and says he should never have been charged over what he says was a private communication. “An appeal is going to be lodged and I’m going to be represented by a law firm because there is no way I should have been charged,” Heathcote said. “It was a private thing between myself and the jockey. “Jockeys make mistakes – am I not entitled to point that mistake out to him? “I’m taking this on – it’s not the money, I couldn’t care about the $250, it’s the principle.” The vast majority of Australian trainers send post-race audio or video reports to owners, usually featuring an interview with the jockey, and the point Heathcote case could raise the spectre about whether some trainers may ask owners to sign nondisclosure agreements to receive post-race information. The stewards’ report regarding the Heathcote inquiry initially indicated Heathcote had pleaded guilty to the charge - but Heathcote insists he didn’t. He contacted stewards and the wording of the stewards’ report has now been changed. Brisbane stewards are also understood to be investigating another local trainer after his remarks about a jockey on a post-race audio were sent to owners and circulated on social media.K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) Actually the dickhead owner who posted it on social media should have been charged as well.... Maybe Heathcote was trying to be the BIGSHOT to show his owners he was THE man and not to be messed with? Whatever, it's bringing racing into disrepute airing this smack talk... 2+ 3 should give Heathcote the sex in travel option... But why would you want the Supreme Court of JCA ruling on such a cut n dry case.... ...at a cost of millions? When Heathcote owners are to blame? Edited February 23, 2021 by Thomass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, Thomass said: Whatever, it's bringing racing into disrepute airing this smack talk... 2+ 3 should give Heathcote the sex in travel option... Who cares? So Heathcote swore at the Jockey? I've known a trainer tear a Jockey a new arsehole in the birdcage after he didn't follow instructions and did the complete opposite. Probably costing a Grp win, a lower residual value and a shyte load of winnings for the owners on the punt. Geez racing isn't tiddly winks! Given your obvious aversion to anything racing you should go and waste you time pontificating about something other than racing. Seems you are a bit soft and precious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy connolly Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Who cares? So Heathcote swore at the Jockey? I've known a trainer tear a Jockey a new arsehole in the birdcage after he didn't follow instructions and did the complete opposite. Probably costing a Grp win, a lower residual value and a shyte load of winnings for the owners on the punt. Geez racing isn't tiddly winks! Given your obvious aversion to anything racing you should go and waste you time pontificating about something other than racing. Seems you are a bit soft and precious. Again...you miss the point Its the publication of a private convo between 2 parties... Only Heefo decided to tape it so he looks the BIG guy to his owners.... Heefs problem.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Thomass said: Again...you miss the point Its the publication of a private convo between 2 parties... Only Heefo decided to tape it so he looks the BIG guy to his owners.... Heefs problem.... Again you don't understand the law. Recording a conversation in a public place is not illegal nor is publishing it. Even less so if 123 knew that the conversation was being recorded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 What's the law got to do with bringing Racing into disrepute? Stipes can do whatever they like if they think offensive language has been published... ...and Heefo is the instigator...get a grip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Just now, Thomass said: What's the law got to do with bringing Racing into disrepute? Stipes can do whatever they like if they think offensive language has been published... ...and Heefo is the instigator...get a grip! What because he said to a Jockey "why the fuck did you not follow instructions..." Home goal by the stipes if you ask me. For a start it has idiots like you ranting about nothing. Mummy should let you out more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 It's offensive language in anyone's book...l Heef better have notified Stipes if there's was a change of tactics as well.... Something our weak Stipes should bring in here too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Thomass said: It's offensive language in anyone's book...l Really? Go play Tiddly Winks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Don't blame the trainers in the least . Some of the on-board fraudsters could be told a lot worse . Previously have had " said jockey " ride a last start winner and notable backrunning stayer ridden as a front runner at a cut throat pace until the horse compounded and when jockey was confronted about the ride said jock whe returning the colours in a bag explained that there was a small rip in the colours . In reality the colours had been purposefully ripped up both side seams to the armpits . Rob Heathcoate should be congradualted for expressing his displeasure and the powers that be should pull there heads in and focus their priorities elsewhere . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 On 23/02/2021 at 11:19 AM, nomates said: Unfortunately the young lady in question has a long history of volitile behavior , i was told from a couple of trainers that no longer train there that apparently most mornings she could be heard giving someone or something a good bellowing out , she could be heard from a couple of hundred mtrs away , she is not scared to voice her opinion if things aren't going well . also related to that , I've heard a few murmurs about the stipe in question also and her lack of empathy for those dealing with the horse, so in this instance perhaps its not as clear cut as its made out to be. Not sure if she hasn't had any experience with horses particularly before races or not , but maybe she could take the opportunity to lead a big strong 3yo Exceed and Excel filly around the bird cage before its asked to do its thing on the race track. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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