Thomass Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 So once again the pathetic Health & Safety protocols on NZ courses has been EXPOSED...badly As per the norm...CONCERT HALL was led into her stall...then released before she fully entered..hit her flank...then took off sans Jockey Full tit into the outside corner bend fence, somersaulting over...gathered herself....down the hill...over the road and into the children's playground with COC Linda Wheeler in hot pursuit.. Just a few MAJOR issues here...if she'd turned left...would have ended up going into the Main Street and on coming traffic...children in the playground with a panicked horse? Both don't bare contemplating...sheer luck neither eventuated This exact incident occurred a few months back when a horse of Pomare's jumped the outside fence at Rotorua and actually headed down Fenton St and into on coming traffic... Clearly ONE chest high human fence between a panicked horse and exposed human traffic is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE How can the Race Clubs/NZTR H&S plan believe this to be a 'no worries' scenario? CONCERT HALL was extremely lucky to escape major injury and so to were the exposed humans who were minding their own business yet unaware a runaway panicked horse could have ended it all... ...due to a non horse proof low hung fence... NZTR need to audit Clubs ASAP 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 Here's the Rotorua incident Rotorua horse makes run for it down main street 27 Nov, 2019 07:02 PM2 minutes to read A horse and rider chasing after the runaway horse on Fenton St. Photo / Supplied Rotorua Daily Post A runaway racehorse caused a stir this afternoon after it was spotted hoofing it down Fenton St without a rider, closely followed by a horse and jockey chasing it. Thomas Sears was just minding his business standing outside the bank on Fenton St, when he heard something unusual. "I heard a galloping noise, so I turned around and had a look and I saw this completely jet-black horse come flying down the road in the oncoming lane towards traffic," Sears said. "In the other lane was a cop car with his lights on coming after him." ADVERTISEMENT Sears went back to getting money out of the ATM when he heard a second galloping noise behind him. "I looked up and there was a second horse, with a rider on it, chasing after the first one." The horse was running north from the Fenton St and Hinemoa St intersection, towards the Government Gardens, he said. Sears said he believed that due to the second rider chasing after it, the runaway horse must have come from the racecourse not too far away. Races were being held at the racecourse this evening. A police spokeswoman confirmed police had been called to reports of a horse on the loose at 3.26pm. "Animal control was advised and the horse was located and the horse is now safe." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 On 19/02/2021 at 9:10 AM, Thomass said: This exact incident occurred a few months back when a horse of Pomare's jumped the outside fence at Rotorua 16 months to be more accurate. In either case what is your point? Given the number of horses that race, trial and train on racetracks each year I'm surprised that there hasn't been more cases of "escapees". What do you propose? Deer fencing around the whole perimeter with double security gates on each entrance like a wildlife park? The outside running rail changed to a grilled deer fence? Any consideration of risk vs cost? Yeah na. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Theres far to much of this HEALTH and SAFETY bullshit. Dismantle the whole friggen thing and begin with high viz vests. Its just another invasion on our personal liberties, and relegates common sense out the back door. As if its not bad enough with this covid hoax and the ability to manipulate entire populations with fear and control. As the great Donald Trump said, fight like hell, and don't give in to the fu#kers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: 16 months to be more accurate. In either case what is your point? Given the number of horses that race, trial and train on racetracks each year I'm surprised that there hasn't been more cases of "escapees". What do you propose? Deer fencing around the whole perimeter with double security gates on each entrance like a wildlife park? The outside running rail changed to a grilled deer fence? Any consideration of risk vs cost? Yeah na. Did I see you just opine the AW track caused the Death of a Jockey? If H & S find out there's a chest high fence between a panicked horse and a vulnerable public watch the f out if someone gets killed... Its like Earthquake proofing Wellington buildings...Humans have the ABSOLUTE right to be protected from incompetently built buildings et el Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 39 minutes ago, aquaman said: Theres far to much of this HEALTH and SAFETY bullshit. Dismantle the whole friggen thing and begin with high viz vests. Its just another invasion on our personal liberties, and relegates common sense out the back door. As if its not bad enough with this covid hoax and the ability to manipulate entire populations with fear and control. As the great Donald Trump said, fight like hell, and don't give in to the fu#kers. Oh Lordy... And they live amongst us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 46 minutes ago, aquaman said: Theres far to much of this HEALTH and SAFETY bullshit. I totally agree , but as for loose horses getting onto roads i doubt very much the family of the man killed by a loose horse colliding with his car outside Awapuni a few years ago would agree , the fencing went up on Te Wanaka Rd after that , but too late for that gentleman . And they had plenty of scares prior that should have alerted them to the dangers . I'm sure there are other instances . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Thomass said: Did I see you just opine the AW track caused the Death of a Jockey? If H & S find out there's a chest high fence between a panicked horse and a vulnerable public watch the f out if someone gets killed... Its like Earthquake proofing Wellington buildings...Humans have the ABSOLUTE right to be protected from incompetently built buildings et el I'm now convinced Thomarse that you want to see racing closed down. There is a considerable difference between sending out a 50kg Jockey on a 500kg animal in the dark on a poorly maintained track. Versus the likelihood of a horse being loose and deciding to jump a fence into the crowd at a race meeting. In all the years of racing that you have watched have you seen one instance of that happening? There have been more going in the opposite direction - i.e. drunken idiot running onto the track. You take the piss and raise all these H & S issues but NEVER provide any solutions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 2 hours ago, nomates said: I totally agree , but as for loose horses getting onto roads i doubt very much the family of the man killed by a loose horse colliding with his car outside Awapuni a few years ago would agree , the fencing went up on Te Wanaka Rd after that , but too late for that gentleman . And they had plenty of scares prior that should have alerted them to the dangers . I'm sure there are other instances . Happens on our roads every day. It comes down to risk vs cost. Sure the people who are directly impacted feel aggrieved but how far do you go? Let's look at a specific example. Riccarton Racecourse - situated in a highly populated area. Do you put a deer fence around the whole area? I've owned two horses that have "escaped". One at Waterlea and the other at Woodville. One a Standardbred the other a Thoroughbred. The harness horse was a houdini. He would undo latches with his tongue, lift gates off their hinges with his arse - do anything to go for a wander. We had to make up special locks which we carried with us wherever he went to stop the gate lifting and latch undoing. Escaped one night at Waterlea wandered the whole course looking for female company. Found eating grass and tied to a fence. Next day bolted in. The Thoroughbred was a mare. Won at Woodville, put in her stall, somehow pushed the door open and decided to go for a wander out of the stables and down the main road. Someone saw it and returned her. BUT as my old man told me a horse is more likely to hurt itself avoiding hurting you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 43 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Happens on our roads every day. It comes down to risk vs cost. Sure the people who are directly impacted feel aggrieved but how far do you go? Let's look at a specific example. Riccarton Racecourse - situated in a highly populated area. Do you put a deer fence around the whole area? I've owned two horses that have "escaped". One at Waterlea and the other at Woodville. One a Standardbred the other a Thoroughbred. The harness horse was a houdini. He would undo latches with his tongue, lift gates off their hinges with his arse - do anything to go for a wander. We had to make up special locks which we carried with us wherever he went to stop the gate lifting and latch undoing. Escaped one night at Waterlea wandered the whole course looking for female company. Found eating grass and tied to a fence. Next day bolted in. The Thoroughbred was a mare. Won at Woodville, put in her stall, somehow pushed the door open and decided to go for a wander out of the stables and down the main road. Someone saw it and returned her. BUT as my old man told me a horse is more likely to hurt itself avoiding hurting you. Yea i get all that , the Awapuni incident was if i remember correctly a young horse dumping it's rider and galloping , not going for a wander or jaunt , down Te Wanaka Rd onto the main road . Any of number of stables exit onto Te Wanaka Rd so they put a fence up one side of Te Wanaka so any incidents were kept in an enclosed area , i think at the same time all rcecourses had to put gates , electronic in most cases , at all course entries . You can't mitigate for all situations but certain safety precautions can be put in place where practicable . No further incidents since at Awapuni , unfortunately too late for one family . And the risk v cost argument , well it works until it is you or one of yours that it costs . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 32 minutes ago, nomates said: Yea i get all that , the Awapuni incident was if i remember correctly a young horse dumping it's rider and galloping , not going for a wander or jaunt , down Te Wanaka Rd onto the main road . Any of number of stables exit onto Te Wanaka Rd so they put a fence up one side of Te Wanaka so any incidents were kept in an enclosed area , i think at the same time all rcecourses had to put gates , electronic in most cases , at all course entries . You can't mitigate for all situations but certain safety precautions can be put in place where practicable . No further incidents since at Awapuni , unfortunately too late for one family . And the risk v cost argument , well it works until it is you or one of yours that it costs . Yes is best when safe as possible. In early years I lived Takanini where 'hundreds' of horses walked down to the training track everyday , once i came across a accident and a car had hit a horse very badly, the trainer had rushed to the scene and was trying to punch the car driver out. Was very dramatic. Thankfully the horse was rushed to Takanini vet just around the corner, and emergency surgery, the huge abdomen gash stitched up , and the horse actually did race again. Amazing effort by vets. wonder if they are still training at Takanini ?(and old mate Bob Vance) he went off to Aus with Mr McGinty and won a big one at the time , so we were in total awe at that effort. Well done Bobby.!. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 38 minutes ago, nomates said: No further incidents since at Awapuni , unfortunately too late for one family Obviously it didn't happen before either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Obviously it didn't happen before either. Plenty of instances from memory but fortunately no deaths or serious accident , so the general public doesn't hear about , but the warnings were there . I've seen horses make the Levin township , fortunatley nothing serious coming from them . As i said , you can't mitigate every situation but you can the obvious ones i.e. where horses are useing public roads , as MRC have done . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Happens on our roads every day. It comes down to risk vs cost. Sure the people who are directly impacted feel aggrieved but how far do you go? Let's look at a specific example. Riccarton Racecourse - situated in a highly populated area. Do you put a deer fence around the whole area? Not exactly a deer fence - but very well enclosed nevertheless. You wouldn't find a horse on the road unless someone left an external gate open. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 44 minutes ago, Freda said: You wouldn't find a horse on the road unless someone left an external gate open. You've never trained jumpers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Yes. Your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 35 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: You've never trained jumpers? I've seen way more horses go thru a gate than over , in fact i've never seen a horse that for whatever reason is on a wild gallop clear a gate or wire fence cleanly , uaually clean it out . I was standing at the Levin tie ups one morning and watched a horse appear through a 2 mtr high corregated fence attached to 3 4x2 railings and gallop up Mako Mako Rd to State Highway 1 , smashed straight thru , never seen anything like it , never found out the reason why , all ended well . But as i said earlier you can't mitigate for every possible scenario . There are some obvious precautions that can be taken around race tracks and in the main they have been implimented . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 51 minutes ago, Freda said: Yes. Your point? Well you don't need to leave a gate open do you? I've seen a horse stick his arse into the hinge end of a gate and lift it off. Fixed that then he opened the latch with his mouth. Jumped clean over a fence to get into a paddock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 7 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I'm now convinced Thomarse that you want to see racing closed down. There is a considerable difference between sending out a 50kg Jockey on a 500kg animal in the dark on a poorly maintained track. Versus the likelihood of a horse being loose and deciding to jump a fence into the crowd at a race meeting. In all the years of racing that you have watched have you seen one instance of that happening? There have been more going in the opposite direction - i.e. drunken idiot running onto the track. You take the piss and raise all these H & S issues but NEVER provide any solutions. Banna Strand at the Bool 10 years ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 23, 2021 Author Share Posted February 23, 2021 19 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I'm now convinced Thomarse that you want to see racing closed down. There is a considerable difference between sending out a 50kg Jockey on a 500kg animal in the dark on a poorly maintained track. Versus the likelihood of a horse being loose and deciding to jump a fence into the crowd at a race meeting. In all the years of racing that you have watched have you seen one instance of that happening? There have been more going in the opposite direction - i.e. drunken idiot running onto the track. You take the piss and raise all these H & S issues but NEVER provide any solutions. Yea, you put up a SAFE fence.... A chest high horse fence between an unaware vulnerable public going about their non horse business is totes UNACCEPTABLE Cost v human life doesn't come into it when assessing H&S You could arrange front door signage for each Earthquake prone building in Wellington...ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK... ...or you could spend 1.5B proofing them to save human lives...which they're doing You could put a sign up outside NP Race Course... 'Unsafe chest high fence between you and a panicked horse' Or the Club could do the right thing and erect a suitably safe fence The problem with NP course is they're reluctant because it's a public park... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Thomass said: Yea, you put up a SAFE fence.... A chest high horse fence between an unaware vulnerable public going about their non horse business is totes UNACCEPTABLE Cost v human life doesn't come into it when assessing H&S You could arrange front door signage for each Earthquake prone building in Wellington...ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK... ...or you could spend 1.5B proofing them to save human lives...which they're doing You could put a sign up outside NP Race Course... 'Unsafe chest high fence between you and a panicked horse' Or the Club could do the right thing and erect a suitably safe fence The problem with NP course is they're reluctant because it's a public park... You are so full of shyte and obviously have only one objective and that is to end racing fullstop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, Thomass said: Yea, you put up a SAFE fence.... A chest high horse fence between an unaware vulnerable public going about their non horse business is totes UNACCEPTABLE Cost v human life doesn't come into it when assessing H&S Cost vs risk vs human life. Ban driving. How many times has a horse jumped the fence into the public viewing area in decades of horse racing let alone seriously injured someone? 11 minutes ago, Thomass said: You could arrange front door signage for each Earthquake prone building in Wellington...ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK... ...or you could spend 1.5B proofing them to save human lives...which they're doing But they are not going to save 100% of lives during a major earthquake only minimise casualties relative to the risk assessment and probability of a certain level of earthquake. FFS if they were serious about saving lives they'd move Wellington somewhere else and off a fault line. 13 minutes ago, Thomass said: You could put a sign up outside NP Race Course... 'Unsafe chest high fence between you and a panicked horse' More bullshit. Plus a complete lack of awareness about what a panicked horse will do. The horse is displaying a flight response - their natural instinct, especially after training, is to avoid humans not target them! 15 minutes ago, Thomass said: The problem with NP course is they're reluctant because it's a public park... Bollocks again. Yes it is a leased property but that doesn't excuse either the owner nor the lessee from fulfilling H & S or any other statutory obligation. With regard to having a "horse proof fence" - what the hell is one? You're an absolute idiot Thomas. Twitter deserves you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, Thomass said: Yea, you put up a SAFE fence.... A chest high horse fence between an unaware vulnerable public going about their non horse business is totes UNACCEPTABLE Cost v human life doesn't come into it when assessing H&S I'm afraid that's completely wrong (although it does seem to be a very common error these days, so you're not alone). The cost of any expenditure always has to be weighed against its expected benefits, which in this case is the infinitesimal risk of a horse doing what you suggest multiplied by the value of a statistical life. I'd be very surprised if this were anywhere close to the fence cost, but perhaps you have some data that suggest differently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Basil said: I'm afraid that's completely wrong (although it does seem to be a very common error these days, so you're not alone). The cost of any expenditure always has to be weighed against its expected benefits, which in this case is the infinitesimal risk of a horse doing what you suggest multiplied by the value of a statistical life. I'd be very surprised if this were anywhere close to the fence cost, but perhaps you have some data that suggest differently. I do wonder if you would roll this line out if your child lost it's life in a cost v risk situation , Oh it's ok my boy died , because i understand the cost outwieghed the value of his life . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, nomates said: I do wonder if you would roll this line out if your child lost it's life in a cost v risk situation , Oh it's ok my boy died , because i understand the cost outwieghed the value of his life . As opposed to your approach where you want to blame someone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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