Weasel Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Reported by NZ Racing Desk this morning Subject: Andrew Campbell, trainer, winning yesterday with Padraig, ending a "horror run" over the last year. "The Cambridge trainer has endured a frustrating year with a virus affecting the majority of his runners." Q: Did punters have this information at any time before yesterday? Q: Are there any rules requiring trainers to report such circumstances, as and when they occur, to NZTR? Q: If there are rules, where is such information accessible to followers of the industry, including (but not only) punters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Like Thomass, what difference would it have made to you?. Padraig spanked them in a trial by 5 lengths, a sure sign it was fit and ready to put in a big one yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 15 minutes ago, barryb said: Like Thomass, what difference would it have made to you?. Padraig spanked them in a trial by 5 lengths, a sure sign it was fit and ready to put in a big one yesterday. Thought Weasel has valid point. Everyone has different ways on how they select horses to bet on. Surely this info is just as important as gear changes, which we are informed of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 The question though Newmarket is what difference would it have made? Would you have not bet any of his runners in the last 12 months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 31 minutes ago, barryb said: The question though Newmarket is what difference would it have made? Would you have not bet any of his runners in the last 12 months? Ive not looked at trainers record last 12 months, but trainer stated he had a horror year, so I assume he battled a bit? Would it alter my betting if I knew virus in stable, most likely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakama Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 You would be mad if you didn't take a virus into consideration when betting......unless of course you didn't know. Why were horses allowed to compete, did virus get spread? Everyone in the game can tell you what effect a virus can have in a stable.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Thought it would be more important to know if the trainer has been starting horses that are known to have a virus - if that was the case. Are you suggesting the trainer actually started horses known to have a virus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 'Viruses' are a good excuse to make for poor performance....sometimes valid, often not. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 14 minutes ago, Freda said: 'Viruses' are a good excuse to make for poor performance....sometimes valid, often not. Ive been telling the Mrs that for years, doesn’t believe me. 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Quite often in the stipes report you see "the trainer will be monitoring the horse and report back to the stipes" That covers several situations including coughing, mucus, heart vilberations, lameness etc ?? On occasions the horses is ordered back to the trials but races next without the trial. Seemingly the stipes have been given an exhibition gallop. Yet hardly ever does this information get relayed by the stipes even in this age where the stipes actually try to be open. So lets start with the stipes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 So....if a stipe shows a heart vilberation whie giving an exhibition gallop, then he won't be officiating at the races? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Long time since I've been to the races in NZ, but if a couple of stipes were rocking up to give an exhibition gallop, that might get me there! Btw, what the hell is a heart vilberation? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 On 24/06/2018 at 8:59 AM, Weasel said: Reported by NZ Racing Desk this morning Subject: Andrew Campbell, trainer, winning yesterday with Padraig, ending a "horror run" over the last year. "The Cambridge trainer has endured a frustrating year with a virus affecting the majority of his runners." Q: Did punters have this information at any time before yesterday? Q: Are there any rules requiring trainers to report such circumstances, as and when they occur, to NZTR? Q: If there are rules, where is such information accessible to followers of the industry, including (but not only) punters? Campbell reported this fact in a Popps interview a few months back... There is a rule though "report ANYTHING that may affect the performance of a neddy" Now that doesnt mean b/s like getting a fright from a stable rat who ran out and went boo It means set backs, like missing work through injuries... Austrwlian Stipes are very pro active in tweeting info like this ...ours don't give a sheet... More operations such as wind surgeries are now showing up in PDF form guides...from the TAB for free..which are dealt with via a brief Stipe report in a form line ...they should be tweeted as well though...the young punter hasn't got time to read extensive form guides... But our Stipes are very ignorant when it comes to the modern day young punter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 23 hours ago, mardigras said: Thought it would be more important to know if the trainer has been starting horses that are known to have a virus - if that was the case. Are you suggesting the trainer actually started horses known to have a virus? Seriously...you have no idea Only dickheads would do or suggest that...actually not even dickhead Trainers would start a sick horse Its about horses having got over an illness...supposedly...but it's form still being affected by a virus having PASSED through a stable.. It could be Campbell, having shifted to a new area in Cambridge...had his horse's exposed to new viruses that his stock had little immunity to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 18 minutes ago, Thomass said: Campbell reported this fact in a Popps interview a few months back... There is a rule though "report ANYTHING that may affect the performance of a neddy" Now that doesnt mean b/s like getting a fright from a stable rat who ran out and went boo It means set backs, like missing work through injuries... Austrwlian Stipes are very pro active in tweeting info like this ...ours don't give a sheet... More operations such as wind surgeries are now showing up in PDF form guides...from the TAB for free..which are dealt with via a brief Stipe report in a form line ...they should be tweeted as well though...the young punter hasn't got time to read extensive form guides... But our Stipes are very ignorant when it comes to the modern day young punter... I think it was NZTR, did some consumer research a few years ago, probably what's called a Usage and Attitude survey, about why people did or did not bet on horses. One of the things that came through, was that people did not bet on horses, because they felt they were at a disadvantage compared with people in the industry, in terms of availability of information. How often do we read after a horse has won at longer odds usually, the full story of why. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, hesi said: I think it was NZTR, did some consumer research a few years ago, probably what's called a Usage and Attitude survey, about why people did or did not bet on horses. One of the things that came through, was that people did not bet on horses, because they felt they were at a disadvantage compared with people in the industry, in terms of availability of information. How often do we read after a horse has won at longer odds usually, the full story of why. That makes a whole lotta sense... Trainers telling us post race "we rode it upside down to make it settle" ...Oz Punters get this info...and WALLER is big on reporting this...and really early He knows punting information is critical...or he'd be racing for ribbons We're getting better but the suits are oh so SLOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 This wasn't the research I was referring to, but I'll post it anyway out of interest 2014-18 NZTR Strategic Plan NZTR market RESEARCH HAS IDENTIFIED THOROUGHBRED RACING’S SIGNIFICANT CHALLENGES INCLUDing: ‘New Zealand’s lack of scale limits financial resources necessitating tough choices’ ‘ 94% of New Zealanders do not see Thoroughbred racing as ‘relevant’’ ‘ Fragmentation of the industry has resulted in a lack of direction’ ‘ The industry has been resistant to change and now there is a generation gap in engagement’ ‘ There is a lack of focus on the customer’ ‘ Infrastructure is run down and requires investment’ ‘ There is a lack of marketing direction and inconsistency in quality and messaging’ ‘ The on-course experience lacks innovation’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Thomass said: Seriously...you have no idea Only dickheads would do or suggest that...actually not even dickhead Trainers would start a sick horse Its about horses having got over an illness...supposedly...but it's form still being affected by a virus having PASSED through a stable.. It could be Campbell, having shifted to a new area in Cambridge...had his horse's exposed to new viruses that his stock had little immunity to... Funny, I thought you trusted the trainer and they wouldn't start a horse that was still affected by the virus. I certainly couldn't care whether a horse had had a virus. If it's starting, that suggests it is ready to race and is no longer unwell nor its form affected by the virus. Seems you don't trust the trainer after all. Edited June 25, 2018 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, mardigras said: Funny, I thought you trusted the trainer and they wouldn't start a horse that was still affected by the virus. I certainly couldn't care whether a horse had had a virus. If it's starting, that suggests it is ready to race and is no longer unwell nor its form affected by the virus. Seems you don't trust the trainer after all. But you're not a horseman's ass... Sometimes a 'horseman' just can't tell if a neddy's totally recovered either... ...only a decent spell can correct natures cruel dealt hand... Sometimes you just can't trust a trainer... ...like deciding to turn tactics upside down...and not informing Punters Only naive Punters trust Trainers 24/7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Thomass said: But you're not a horseman's ass... Sometimes a 'horseman' just can't tell if a neddy's totally recovered either... ...only a decent spell can correct natures cruel dealt hand... Sometimes you just can Only naive Punters trust Trainers 24/7 I trust they don't bring an unfit, unwell horse to the races. If the stable had had a virus, I'd still trust that to be the case. When they win, you'll miss out cos you think the horse isn't ready - like the recent winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 As I said you're not a horseman's ass Sometimes bloods, training knowledge etc. won't tell a serious'horseman' anything ultimately.. ...it's when the pressure comes on in an actual race the passing virus shows the effect it's had on the horse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 One of the most useful tools a trainer has is blood counts meaning a poor reading can mean virus i.e. white cells versus red cells. Therefore blood tests are something definitive not speculation and could be reported. It would mean the club subsidizing the costs of authentic blood tests so trainers would be more willing to cooperate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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