How can NZ compete with this?

[Chief Stipe]

 

[Freda]

Pardon the cynicism...but can NZ compete with anything on that scale?

Apart from population/ funding, which obviously is out of our collective control, there is a vibrancy and vision that we just don't seem to have any more.

Yes, we have some wonderful , individual talents in artistic and sporting fields,  but look at the mouldering, decrepit facilities in so many areas, a health system chronically underfunded ;  a lack of vision and energy seems to pervade us.

[Freda]

44 minutes ago, Freda said:

Pardon the cynicism...but can NZ compete with anything on that scale?

Apart from population/ funding, which obviously is out of our collective control, there is a vibrancy and vision that we just don't seem to have any more.

Yes, we have some wonderful , individual talents in artistic and sporting fields,  but look at the mouldering, decrepit facilities in so many areas, a health system chronically underfunded ;  a lack of vision and energy seems to pervade us.

And, from a racing/training perspective, Caulfield-based trainers have access to an alternative facility at least as good, if not better - as well as incentives to facilitate the move.

They haven't been told to eff off, bad luck, this is the future.

[Chief Stipe]

One of the key aspects of the proposal for me was the commitment to providing facilities and enabling engagement with other sports and community activities.

In New Zealand we are pulling away from other sports and community engagement.  Essentially moving towards high cost centralised facilities focused on one activity.  Also selling up the land assets for one off gains in capital which is then invested in monolithic single use grandstands or squandered on stakes.

Another key aspect in the Caulfield proposal is the acknowledgement of environmental issues and accommodating them.  Whereas in New Zealand we are turning away from clean and green environmentally friendly turf and sand tracks to artificial synthetic surfaces on top of asphalt roads.  I'm convinced the Greens are just waiting to test the groundwater and runoff from the AWT's for microplastics.

[Chief Stipe]

Caulfield Racecourse

The vision for Caulfield Racecourse includes:

• A revitalised entry experience for guests including streamlined access from Caulfield Station and private vehicles
• New stands with a modern offer and improved track viewing
• The latest technology to improve the raceday and event experience
• Improved access to amenities
• Increased trackside lawn areas
• New centralised horse stalls and mounting yard offering greater patron access and viewing
• A second racetrack with opportunities for twilight and night racing
• World class facilities for industry participants
• Multi-purpose spaces for better utilisation of the site by members and the public
• A resilient and sustainable facility which minimises its impact on the environment to ensure it can be enjoyed for the next 150 years

Planning for the implementation of the masterplan has now commenced and more information will be made available soon!

 

[Chief Stipe]

Caulfield Racecourse Reserve

The Caulfield Racecourse Reserve Trust is an independent body appointed by the State Government to manage the 54-hectare Caulfield Racecourse Reserve. The Trust have commenced preparation of a comprehensive Land Management Plan for the site which will set out a vision for the reserve to guide use for the next phase of its existence.

We look forward to working co-operatively with and complementing the work of the CRRT for the broader vision of the entire precinct.

For further information on the Land Management Plan, please visit the Caulfield Racecourse Reserve Trust’s website www.crrt.org.au.

 

[Chief Stipe]

I initially thought that the first criticism that would be thrown back was that the Caulfield Racecourse Reserve at 54 hectares was a lot bigger than say for example Riccarton. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but Riccarton is 100 hectares i.e. twice the size of Caulfield.

[Chief Stipe]

Land Management Plan

 

The Caulfield Racecourse Reserve Land Management Plan is shaped around aspirations to create vibrant, inclusive and accessible public spaces for diverse communities.

 

We are at a pivotal moment to begin realising the full potential of the Reserve, consistent with its three purposes – racing, recreation and a public park.

The Reserve of the future will be a place for everyone, and the Land Management Plan reflects what we have heard from our community and stakeholders, capturing their diverse needs and uses.

More than $500 million in projects and initiatives are highlighted, including brand new facilities for organised sports and recreation, spaces to connect with nature, attend community and cultural events as well as continuing to preserve the racing experience.

The plan will be used to provide guidance and direction to meet the needs of the community now, and into the future.

Land Management Plan-Summary

Land Management Plan

The high-level projects and initiatives for each area are summarised below

Access and Movement through the Reserve

• Easier access to the Reserve’s vast open space with two new tunnels and improved access points for vehicle, pedestrians, and cyclists to enter.
• Parking for 1,200 cars – below or partially underground
• Improved amenities
• Improved fencing

Open Space and Recreation

• A new sports hub featuring turf and synthetic sports fields, an indoor stadium, club room, change facilities and café
• A walking / running / cycling trail around the perimeter of the Reserve.
• Depot below ground
• Car parking below synthetic pitch
• Separation of pedestrian and cars

Landscape, Environment and Resilience

• Protect areas for social recreational uses
• Upgrades to lake / wetland
• Create an indigenous heath
• Climate resilience and improved biodiversity
• Efficient energy use and systems

Culture, Community and Events

• Spaces for events of different scales, including a stage pavilion for concerts
• Community garden
• Community park
• Indoor community areas and nature-based play to engage children
• Nature based play element

The Digital Experience

• Wi-Fi connectivity throughout
• Digital signage
• Digital platform to communicate events and access times, as well as sharing experiences.

The Racing Experience

• Preservation and enhancement of the racing experience
• Upgrades to existing amenities and build new facilities and landscapes for use during events.
• Adequate parking to support race attendance.

 

20011_CCR-LMP_Summary_20200622_LR.pdf

[Freda]

Don't depress me any further,  please.

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, Freda said:

Don't depress me any further,  please.

Caulfield is not going to have training facilities but then they have half as much land to use.

One of the few things Reefton and I agreed on was they should have shown some vision - sold Riccarton and bought 200 hectares out West on shyte land and started again.  

[Freda]

Yes, agree.

However - is the 100 hectares the land area now with the housing development? 

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, Freda said:

Yes, agree.

However - is the 100 hectares the land area now with the housing development? 

Without.  However I miscalculated as I included the Golfing Range but I see that that is owned by Ngai Tahu.  I also included the Retirement Village parcel - LOL that will provide some entertainment to the oldies as it is alongside ALL of the 1200m chute from the start to about the 500m mark.  That was also bought of Nghai Tahu by Ryman.  When did Ngai Tahu get their hands on those parcels?

That aside it still leaves 85 hectares in the Riccarton Trust.

[Freda]

36 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Without.  However I miscalculated as I included the Golfing Range but I see that that is owned by Ngai Tahu.  I also included the Retirement Village parcel - LOL that will provide some entertainment to the oldies as it is alongside ALL of the 1200m chute from the start to about the 500m mark.  That was also bought of Nghai Tahu by Ryman.  When did Ngai Tahu get their hands on those parcels?

That aside it still leaves 85 hectares in the Riccarton Trust.

 Ngai Tahu was the initial purchaser of the lot.     The idea was that it couldn't be sold for 'commercial'  purposes.   I had a chat with the Chairman at the time of sale, wondering why the Racecourse Trust couldn't develop the excess land in it's own right, but was told that that was not allowed under the original Deed of Gift conditions. How that resonates with the 'commercial' reality of flogging off a parcel of land for money I'm not sure.

[Pitman]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

One of the few things Reefton and I agreed on was they should have shown some vision - sold Riccarton and bought 200 hectares out West on shyte land and started again.  

Perhaps the AWT racing, training and trial facility would have been better built out West Melton way, just past Paparua Prison and Riccarton could have been developed as Ellerslie has, selling/renting various areas for future income streams and having no horses trained there. Bit late now.

[Freda]

12 minutes ago, Pitman said:

Perhaps the AWT racing, training and trial facility would have been better built out West Melton way, just past Paparua Prison and Riccarton could have been developed as Ellerslie has, selling/renting various areas for future income streams and having no horses trained there. Bit late now.

As a matter of interest, one of John Austin's better ideas [ when he was Chairman of the CJC ]  was to do just that.

[Reefton]

6 hours ago, Pitman said:

Perhaps the AWT racing, training and trial facility would have been better built out West Melton way, just past Paparua Prison and Riccarton could have been developed as Ellerslie has, selling/renting various areas for future income streams and having no horses trained there. Bit late now.

Has to be beside the Railway Line Pitty so you can get the punters there and back without drink driving issues but that is what I have been on about for years.  Despite the fact that Riccarton is racecourse reserve I am sure they could have negotiated a fat price for vacating the place(not to mention the grandstand payout) and if they got Addington in on the deal they would have potentially had more money that they knew what to deal with.  My vision was a triangular building - the turf track on one side, all weather trotting on another and the all weather galloping on the third(might have taken some design but they would do it).  Admin, raceday stabling and jockeys on the bottom floors then two or three levels above with views all ways depending which meeting was running).  Night racing for all three types and Friday nights a specialty.  Train them(the punters) out from town and send them home pissed.  Could have brought a couple of hundred hectares and added the necessary training facilities and permanent stabling as well with horses able to be kept secure instead of the current float them from the stable to the stalls at Riccarton requirement.

They would probably have a couple of hundred mill in the bank and be able to run three four or five $1million dollar races a year and the effect would soon begin to snowball.  And the David Ellis's of this world would be begging to come to your joint not threatening not to if they didn't get their own way.  Plus cash up time for any Riccarton trainers who own their own ground(just like it was for Takanini a few years back).  Not sure if there are any who still own their ground but I know you(MRP) do.

 

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

My vision was a triangular building - the turf track on one side, all weather trotting on another and the all weather galloping on the third(might have taken some design but they would do it).  

This is the sort of out of the square vision that is lacking in NZ administration , i love it , the 3 sets of lights would be a huge expense but if it was financially viable go for it . This is the sort of project that would future proof SI racing for the next 50/100 years .
I have been advocating the same for the lower NI , sell Palmy and Trentham and set up north of Foxton , huge swaths of flat sand based land to do this and future proof racing in the district .

The same up north , lay a course where the horse population base is , somewhere in the Waikato , sell Ellerslie and Te Rapa , Aucklanders can't complain , they don't go to Ellerslie in the numbers that the largest city suggest they should .

Doing something like this sets NZ racing up into the next century . But the biggest single ingredient required is vision , massively lacking in at present .

These track in the middle of cities were once the requirement , when populations utilized them to the max , no more . More and more they look like they have been shoe horned into there surroundings , no more the vast open expanses .

We all know centralization is coming , so do it properly .

[Gospel of Judas]

Come on you lot! got centralize everything up Walkato so big boys like Vela, Hogan, Ellis and big breeders can have it all! . Considering just about flogged all good stuff out NZ racing for themselves! . Just got there good corrupt mate Winny to speeded it up! and Molloy to run all PR lines! .Defeat is coming! 

[nomates]

51 minutes ago, Gospel of Judas said:

Come on you lot! got centralize everything up Walkato so big boys like Vela, Hogan, Ellis and big breeders can have it all! . Considering just about flogged all good stuff out NZ racing for themselves! . Just got there good corrupt mate Winny to speeded it up! and Molloy to run all PR lines! .Defeat is coming! 

Give it time , could well end up that all we have left is in the Waikato but they will be racing against themselves for frozen chickens.

[Reefton]

3 hours ago, nomates said:

This is the sort of out of the square vision that is lacking in NZ administration , i love it , the 3 sets of lights would be a huge expense but if it was financially viable go for it . This is the sort of project that would future proof SI racing for the next 50/100 years .
I have been advocating the same for the lower NI , sell Palmy and Trentham and set up north of Foxton , huge swaths of flat sand based land to do this and future proof racing in the district .

The same up north , lay a course where the horse population base is , somewhere in the Waikato , sell Ellerslie and Te Rapa , Aucklanders can't complain , they don't go to Ellerslie in the numbers that the largest city suggest they should .

Doing something like this sets NZ racing up into the next century . But the biggest single ingredient required is vision , massively lacking in at present .

These track in the middle of cities were once the requirement , when populations utilized them to the max , no more . More and more they look like they have been shoe horned into there surroundings , no more the vast open expanses .

We all know centralization is coming , so do it properly .

I guess you could have lights that are portable so you don't have shadows across daytime racing tracks but as I have said time and time and time again - racing is the richest sport in NZ by a street but those assets(mainly in the major cities) are massively under-performing in terms of rate of return.  Turn Ellerslie into a commercial hub owned (at least significantly) by the industry(the ARC actually) so the dividends keep coming and move out of the city(Pukekohe has a railway line right there - is it linked to the city?)

Transport is a major key - these days they want to get carried there and dropped back (and I don't blame them)

The beauty of the Riccarton thing is that they have the huge payout due for that stand as well - why not strike now while the opportunity is there?(bearing in mind of course that they may have just pissed multi millions up against the wall on the all weather - I hope it works out because if it doesn't........)

You try to tell the like of Bernard this but they seem to struggle to grasp the concept of rate of return.

 

[Gospel of Judas]

Problem is when comes to anything New Zealand and Racing. No one got balls to do it. Why Riccarton idea is in too hard basket.

[Freda]

Reefton's idea is a wonderful concept, but sadly, won't happen in my lifetime...if ever.  I fear that by the time anyone with sufficient vision bothers to take a look at options,  racing will be such a shadow of its current self [ which isn't very substantial ]  that there will be zero public interest to get the thing off the ground and becoming a paying option. 

The Caulfield development is different in that its success depends on the very fact that it is in the city...the fabulous options shown above for other recreations, sport, entertainment, and all sustainable,  need the buy-in of a large and vibrant city to make it work in the way it is depicted.

But, with the post-earthquake redevelopment of Lancaster Park in the pipeline, and swimming/sports areas needed,  what a potential game-changer a multi-sport/entertainment complex might have been.

 

[Horace]

2 hours ago, Freda said:

Reefton's idea is a wonderful concept, but sadly, won't happen in my lifetime...if ever.  I fear that by the time anyone with sufficient vision bothers to take a look at options,  racing will be such a shadow of its current self [ which isn't very substantial ]  that there will be zero public interest to get the thing off the ground and becoming a paying option. 

The Caulfield development is different in that its success depends on the very fact that it is in the city...the fabulous options shown above for other recreations, sport, entertainment, and all sustainable,  need the buy-in of a large and vibrant city to make it work in the way it is depicted.

But, with the post-earthquake redevelopment of Lancaster Park in the pipeline, and swimming/sports areas needed,  what a potential game-changer a multi-sport/entertainment complex might have been.

 

Harness racing in the North Island is in its death throes already. Pretty much 3 tracks raced on ( Auckland, Cambridge, P North )..this should be a warning to NZTR, especially since it looks like greyhound racing might get the chop! ( Do nztr think the people who bet on the hounds will suddenly start betting on TB'S?) Unfortunately jumping races are on the way out also. If its true that the ARC are going to flick off 'the Hill' then thats the end of jumps at Ellerslie-only leaves Te Rapa as an option in the North of the country.

Clearly NZTR see these synthetic tracks as their 'saviour'. Wait for an announcement when races start being held on them...' No. 1 horse will carry red colours...No.2 horse will carry blue colours...' just like the doggies. And the racing will be just as interesting too. So yes Freda, us old fogies just have to accept the new regime, and the future looks grim indeed!

[Chief Stipe]

20 minutes ago, Horace said:

Harness racing in the North Island is in its death throes already. Pretty much 3 tracks raced on ( Auckland, Cambridge, P North )..this should be a warning to NZTR, especially since it looks like greyhound racing might get the chop! ( Do nztr think the people who bet on the hounds will suddenly start betting on TB'S?)

Yes they do think that as do many of those amongst the elite of NZ Thoroughbred Racing.  They believe that Thoroughbreds and Thoroughbreds only created the NZ TAB and infrastructure (which there are no facts to back that belief up) and that leads to believing that they don't need the other codes.  They even believe that any revenue gained from betting should all go t them.

What they forget and forget at their peril is that Dogs and Harness are low cost delivery options that pay a substantial portion of the fixed and operation costs of the TAB operation.  If Harness and Dogs go from NZ then there will be no option but to outsource the NZ TAB to an Ozzier provider.

[Freda]

57 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

  If Harness and Dogs go from NZ then there will be no option but to outsource the NZ TAB to an Ozzier provider.

Should have been actioned already.