the galah Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Davis said: You may be right mate. But, back in the day only the first four horses home got stake money. Today, the whole field gets something. A slow horse like Pocket Rocknroll finishes last 16 lengths behind the winner at Rangiora in the Super Sprint, yet still earns $160 in stake money. That was probably enough to pay his way for the day? Part of the reason for the payouts to all runners is to maintain participation at the grass roots level. So while most stakes may not have dropped off in real terms compared with 25 years ago,the % of each stake paid to the top 4 has been reduced.Thats one of the compromises thats been accepted as being necessary to help maintain participation levels. Brodie refers to stake levels,but of course 30 years ago owners were still paying acceptance fees if you wanted to start a horse.Now they don't. Also gone are the unrealistic huge stakes for the big races,because theres a realisation that the money is better distributed to more owners than just a handful. The problem nz racing has is in attracting new,and retaining existing customers. Its not as if people don't gamble anymore. Just look at the growth of some types of on line gambling.Part of the problem is in previous years our TAB has made some moronic decisions which has hurt their own customer participation levels. e.g. The new tab website from a couple of years ago that reduced turnovers and alienated and pissed off so many of their customers. There needs to be some thinking outside the square that generates turnover. Why aren't punters clubs run at every harness meeting. Why aren't tickets in them actively promoted with access to a website updated pre every race as to what the investments are.And i'm not talking about those that get to spend big amounts on fixed odds,they need someone running them who takes multiple type bets on the tote and knows their form. Why not have a system whereby if you don't cash out,your stake in the punters club is rolled over to the next meeting.Like having shares in the stockmarket,the current value of the share in the punters club would fluctuate depending on success levels at each meeting.But if run by someone with knowledge,would return a profit. Edited April 28, 2021 by the galah 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 2 hours ago, the galah said: The problem nz racing has is in attracting new,and retaining existing customers. Its not as if people don't gamble anymore. Just look at the growth of some types of on line gambling Well the gambling dollar is what is needed to keep the harness racing afloat . 'Customers' can be the 2 types . Ones that love horses and want to be part of the fun (race a horse, etc like Karrots) or in it for the money. the Punters. your Punters club is a great idea, but you need 'regular participation' (on but mainly off course due to distances) and a product you can actually win off. The huge problem is , the enjoyment can diminish rather quickly , once the bets stop coming in. Blame for bad drives, bad horses galloping out the back and just Plain Old BAD SELECTIONS. Is often the case some of the 'Investors' get very agitated because the thing that galloped out the back , they wouldn't of backed themselves in a fit. So they Go Away and do their own thing next time, which is actually more sensible. The gamblers would rather jam $100 in a pokie and get 'some' results even though likely to put it all back in , even if a win comes up. Pubs and clubs do fine, but without the 'Knowledge of Brodie lol....' not many gunna jam $100 on trotters. (and get any thrill out of it, unless they jag the winner. therefore unlikely to try again next race. They just become more critical of the sport if anything. A huge chunk of the active supporters/competitors with the horses are from family involvement . generational. even myself when think about it. But someone mentioned how the new 'tech generation' have so much more on , and variety. like the farmers who have had a farm for generations with stock or agriculture, the young ones all off to the city , etc, so as the last of the late 90's persons retire and expire the land sold off and end of a hundred+ year era in a lot of cases. very common Nz and Aus. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Well the gambling dollar is what is needed to keep the harness racing afloat . 'Customers' can be the 2 types . Ones that love horses and want to be part of the fun (race a horse, etc like Karrots) or in it for the money. the Punters. your Punters club is a great idea, but you need 'regular participation' (on but mainly off course due to distances) and a product you can actually win off. The huge problem is , the enjoyment can diminish rather quickly , once the bets stop coming in. Blame for bad drives, bad horses galloping out the back and just Plain Old BAD SELECTIONS. Is often the case some of the 'Investors' get very agitated because the thing that galloped out the back , they wouldn't of backed themselves in a fit. So they Go Away and do their own thing next time, which is actually more sensible. The gamblers would rather jam $100 in a pokie and get 'some' results even though likely to put it all back in , even if a win comes up. Pubs and clubs do fine, but without the 'Knowledge of Brodie lol....' not many gunna jam $100 on trotters. (and get any thrill out of it, unless they jag the winner. therefore unlikely to try again next race. They just become more critical of the sport if anything. A huge chunk of the active supporters/competitors with the horses are from family involvement . generational. even myself when think about it. But someone mentioned how the new 'tech generation' have so much more on , and variety. like the farmers who have had a farm for generations with stock or agriculture, the young ones all off to the city , etc, so as the last of the late 90's persons retire and expire the land sold off and end of a hundred+ year era in a lot of cases. very common Nz and Aus. Sounds like your not a fan of punters clubs and don't believe people can actually make any money from them,nor get much enjoyment from having someone else with greater knowledge do the selections. Punters clubs shouldn't target,or expect participation from people who believe they have greater knowledge than the people making punters clubs selections. Thats why its important any punters clubs uses a consistently knowledgeable/successful punter for the selections. Your saying people would rather "jam $100 in a pokie". It appears your also saying people would get more annoyed if they lost money if a reputable person controlled the racing selections,and would be happier if similar or greater losses occurred when a machine is responsible for making the losing selections. Maybe many people are that stupid,don't think so though. Edited April 29, 2021 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 14 minutes ago, the galah said: Sounds like your not a fan of punters clubs and don't believe people can actually make any money from them,nor get much enjoyment from having someone else with greater knowledge do the selections. Punters clubs shouldn't target,or expect participation from people who believe they have greater knowledge than the people making punters clubs selections. Thats why its important any punters clubs uses a consistently knowledgeable/successful punter for the selections. Your saying people would rather "jam $100 in a pokie". It appears your also saying people would get more annoyed if they lost money if a reputable person controlled the racing selections,and would be happier if similar or greater losses occurred when a machine is responsible for making the losing selections. Maybe many people are that stupid,don't think so though. The problem with machines is invariably they are programmed to make losing selections. People are spinning wheels with NO CHANCE of a victory on most spins. What an utter waste of dollars and total stupidity. I expect every dollar I put on a Horse to have show of victory. Punter's clubs are indeed for people who are 'after a dollar' with minimum effort as well. (like you said relying on an expert to bring home the bacon) Most Punters club's I have been in people have 'Turns' at applying the bets. So that you are part of the action and the fun of it all. Your method suggests giving your money to the 'reputable person' and hope for the best. Where's the fun in that???. I might as well give my $500 to Galah and Brodie , and send them away to TAB and hope they come back with something ? lol.... I did go in a $500 per week Syndicate once. Where 50 persons put in 500 each every week for 6 months. Every Thursday you would receive a e-mail Portfolio of bets for the weekend. (gallops) with how much placed on what runners. Great for TAB and Bookies, heaps of bets going on, and the suggestion you would be in 'front' and have some horses to follow. The problem was it was No Fun. was like they were guessing half the time . Things you wouldn't think were a chance with $4k on them and all this sort of stuff. Hard to enjoy the racing like that. So once the 6 month sign -up period was up , didn't do that again. pretty much finished financially not far off where started. (and the challenge of selecting winner yourself is Way Better and fun ) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 45 minutes ago, Gammalite said: The problem with machines is invariably they are programmed to make losing selections. People are spinning wheels with NO CHANCE of a victory on most spins. What an utter waste of dollars and total stupidity. I expect every dollar I put on a Horse to have show of victory. Punter's clubs are indeed for people who are 'after a dollar' with minimum effort as well. (like you said relying on an expert to bring home the bacon) Most Punters club's I have been in people have 'Turns' at applying the bets. So that you are part of the action and the fun of it all. Your method suggests giving your money to the 'reputable person' and hope for the best. Where's the fun in that???. I might as well give my $500 to Galah and Brodie , and send them away to TAB and hope they come back with something ? lol.... I did go in a $500 per week Syndicate once. Where 50 persons put in 500 each every week for 6 months. Every Thursday you would receive a e-mail Portfolio of bets for the weekend. (gallops) with how much placed on what runners. Great for TAB and Bookies, heaps of bets going on, and the suggestion you would be in 'front' and have some horses to follow. The problem was it was No Fun. was like they were guessing half the time . Things you wouldn't think were a chance with $4k on them and all this sort of stuff. Hard to enjoy the racing like that. So once the 6 month sign -up period was up , didn't do that again. pretty much finished financially not far off where started. (and the challenge of selecting winner yourself is Way Better and fun ) I guess punters clubs come in all shapes and forms. I'm not thinking along the lines of the ones you have referred to. I'm thinking an example would be running one at all the canterbury grass track meetings. Those grass tracks with the big fields are the ideal place to make money where you have a big enough starting pool to go wide when making your selections. They have the guaranteed first 4 $10,000 on every race,large on course crowds of people who are there as much for a fun day out as those who go there for a serious punt. Off course participation should also be accessible.You obviously would have to keep participants informed as to what horses the betting has been based around. Obtaining email addresses,or contact ph numbers from those who attend and participate could assist in contacting for future participation and club promotion. O.k there may be a bit of organising it all initially, but long term it would be a boost for turnover and fun punting participation.You could sell tickets to work groups at the xmas at the races functions. As long as you had someone doing the selections who knew what they were doing. Just a thought i've always had. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 Yeah stakes and turnover is increasing!!!! Cambridge highest assessed horses racing for $8k!!!! Turnover on win and place only $3500k each! Pathetic and harness can not continue to be paying the paltry $8k with such small turnover! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiplash smile Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 Is that the tote pools brodie? We both know that its mostly F.O, Would be good to know the combined figures stacked up, Your friend Cindy asks for transparency . e-mail her with your concerns or Tubby lol! Your business is going well under tubby could slim shady brownlee promised the same? Just trying to be balanced my friend. no animosity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiplash smile Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 5 hours ago, Gammalite said: The problem with machines is invariably they are programmed to make losing selections. People are spinning wheels with NO CHANCE of a victory on most spins. What an utter waste of dollars and total stupidity. I expect every dollar I put on a Horse to have show of victory. Punter's clubs are indeed for people who are 'after a dollar' with minimum effort as well. (like you said relying on an expert to bring home the bacon) Most Punters club's I have been in people have 'Turns' at applying the bets. So that you are part of the action and the fun of it all. Your method suggests giving your money to the 'reputable person' and hope for the best. Where's the fun in that???. I might as well give my $500 to Galah and Brodie , and send them away to TAB and hope they come back with something ? lol.... I did go in a $500 per week Syndicate once. Where 50 persons put in 500 each every week for 6 months. Every Thursday you would receive a e-mail Portfolio of bets for the weekend. (gallops) with how much placed on what runners. Great for TAB and Bookies, heaps of bets going on, and the suggestion you would be in 'front' and have some horses to follow. The problem was it was No Fun. was like they were guessing half the time . Things you wouldn't think were a chance with $4k on them and all this sort of stuff. Hard to enjoy the racing like that. So once the 6 month sign -up period was up , didn't do that again. pretty much finished financially not far off where started. (and the challenge of selecting winner yourself is Way Better and fun ) I wish I could find it Gamma , but Pokies are designed with 17 points by psychologists ADAPTED to MANIPULATE, A simple flash demo I will try and find it and post it You the galah and davis are posting some real gems here, Really excellent stuff!, please keep going, thanks! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 1 hour ago, whiplash smile said: I wish I could find it Gamma , but Pokies are designed with 17 points by psychologists ADAPTED to MANIPULATE, A simple flash demo I will try and find it and post it You the galah and davis are posting some real gems here, Really excellent stuff!, please keep going, thanks! That's great Whippy, yeah the Galah and Karrots have put forward excellent ideas to 'raise revenue' and /or for 'people to have fun' and enjoy the harness racing still in comps or live or on the punt. Brodster even says if they let people on with their bets , they could attract more punters and raise revenue. spose that's true lol...... Pokies are truly designed to HYPNOTIZE as one of the 17 manipulation points , I would suggest. The people playing look like zombies lol. I prefer horses as more traditional and are majestic creatures, and the horsepeople very skilled. Not saying the Computer programmer that 'sets' the Pokies to take peoples money are not skilled, very subtle skill they have lol... , but at Least the horsepeople are Trying to win you, or their owners and themselves, and show their Skill off with some great drives and impressive training feats. And then there's the Horsepower too !! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiplash smile Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 8 minutes ago, Gammalite said: That's great Whippy, yeah the Galah and Karrots have put forward excellent ideas to 'raise revenue' and /or for 'people to have fun' and enjoy the harness racing still in comps or live or on the punt. Brodster even says if they let people on with their bets , they could attract more punters and raise revenue. spose that's true lol...... Pokies are truly designed to HYPNOTIZE as one of the 17 manipulation points , I would suggest. The people playing look like zombies lol. I prefer horses as more traditional and are majestic creatures, and the horsepeople very skilled. Not saying the Computer programmer that 'sets' the Pokies to take peoples money are not skilled, very subtle skill they have lol... , but at Least the horsepeople are Trying to win you, or their owners and themselves, and show their Skill off with some great drives and impressive training feats. And then there's the Horsepower too !! It was put out by some gambling foundation for anybody to see, everything from mood lighting the sounds the jackpot, Its heartbreaking to see the impact , its no better than p or cocaine, Thanks for the good work guys! and p.s Davis missed the $100 for $50 bonus last week, (Didnt check my shill e-mail account) and nout this week lol! Stiff upper lip! keep mad and carry on anyway! (DAMN!!) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 3 hours ago, whiplash smile said: Is that the tote pools brodie? We both know that its mostly F.O, Would be good to know the combined figures stacked up, Your friend Cindy asks for transparency . e-mail her with your concerns or Tubby lol! Your business is going well under tubby could slim shady brownlee promised the same? Just trying to be balanced my friend. no animosity! Whiplash, yes tote pools! We never get told what the fixed odds wagering is! Transparency is the last thing this lot does. Lol yes they certainly have been very good for business. They think they are hindering us but reality is they have made some people plenty! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiplash smile Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 14 hours ago, whiplash smile said: Thanks for the good work guys! and p.s Davis missed the $100 for $50 bonus last week, (Didnt check my shill e-mail account) and nout this week lol! Stiff upper lip! keep mad and carry on anyway! (DAMN!!) lol Davis and now just missed 50 for 25 bonus! at 10:23 am cause I deposited yesterday and I waited till lunchtime and thought no cigar? I think the bonus must be based on what youve deposited and lost over the preceding weeks, Ive lost about $300 over the last month on my quaddies but deposited a lot more So its halved, I t will be back to 20/10 next week cause Im licking my wounds and not going to oblige. Brodie is right they do love their losers dont they! C`mon Brodster give us one at Addington today please Bruv!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrots Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 48 minutes ago, whiplash smile said: lol Davis and now just missed 50 for 25 bonus! at 10:23 am cause I deposited yesterday and I waited till lunchtime and thought no cigar? I think the bonus must be based on what youve deposited and lost over the preceding weeks, Ive lost about $300 over the last month on my quaddies but deposited a lot more So its halved, I t will be back to 20/10 next week cause Im licking my wounds and not going to oblige. Brodie is right they do love their losers dont they! C`mon Brodster give us one at Addington today please Bruv!! Oh no Whippy, I hope you get some luck tonight if you bet 👍 Think with Brods a lot of time went in, like a lot, kind of like a full time job, lots & lots of video watching, not just ok pick one. But yeah anyone got any good tips. Jonny Long shot. Roman had a good place Value tip at Alex BUT see its come in now so not so much the value place tip, Steel the Show. Also note they are now taking top 4 too at Alex which helps increase the odds of running in the pay out money, but obviously paying less. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 14 hours ago, Brodie said: Whiplash, yes tote pools! We never get told what the fixed odds wagering is! Transparency is the last thing this lot does. Lol yes they certainly have been very good for business. They think they are hindering us but reality is they have made some people plenty! Motel owners raking it in mate...🙄🙃 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiplash smile Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 50 minutes ago, Karrots said: Oh no Whippy, I hope you get some luck tonight if you bet 👍 Think with Brods a lot of time went in, like a lot, kind of like a full time job, lots & lots of video watching, not just ok pick one. But yeah anyone got any good tips. Jonny Long shot. Roman had a good place Value tip at Alex BUT see its come in now so not so much the value place tip, Steel the Show. Also note they are now taking top 4 too at Alex which helps increase the odds of running in the pay out money, but obviously paying less. I think I still own the crown of king of longshots. benny hill runner, 56 (check out history) sadly spanner only won next up! Brodie will be upset! Lets make it right with some selections karrots!!! Ive got 2 legs left with a $7.oo Quaddie and It might just get me fiver P6! last weeks was 100$ so would have been +$0.60 cents Chuck us some of those karrots knowledge? do we dare that copy that could be beaten not by a better horse but a bad Maurice drive(ouch!!) Zac anyday , he will win today , watch out for ruby mach in the next karrots brodies place special!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiplash smile Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, whiplash smile said: I think I still own the crown of king of longshots. benny hill runner, 56 (check out history) sadly spanner only won next up! Brodie will be upset! Lets make it right with some selections karrots!!! Ive got 2 legs left with a $7.oo Quaddie and It might just get me fiver P6! last weeks was 100$ so would have been +$0.60 cents Chuck us some of those karrots knowledge? do we dare that copy that could be beaten not by a better horse but a bad Maurice drive(ouch!!) Zac anyday , he will win today , watch out for ruby mach in the next karrots brodies place special!!!! or maybe not!!!😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrots Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, whiplash smile said: I think I still own the crown of king of longshots. benny hill runner, 56 (check out history) sadly spanner only won next up! Brodie will be upset! Lets make it right with some selections karrots!!! Ive got 2 legs left with a $7.oo Quaddie and It might just get me fiver P6! last weeks was 100$ so would have been +$0.60 cents Chuck us some of those karrots knowledge? do we dare that copy that could be beaten not by a better horse but a bad Maurice drive(ouch!!) Zac anyday , he will win today , watch out for ruby mach in the next karrots brodies place special!!!! What is there racing action on right now ... ? Oh dear, missing out. Gee that is early start, didn't catch that. Im really hit & miss. End up overall prob breaking even. Def no pro-punter unfortunately Whippy. Hence practice is good with fun comps 😄 Can only watch tonight really & time for me to get off here lol. I better go. Good luck for rest of day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) On 28/04/2021 at 3:17 PM, the galah said: One of the biggest issues facing harness racing today is the value of land. Dairying has pushed land values so high that investing in alternative use for things like training racehorses ,given the returns,is no longer affordable or attractive.Thank the national government for that. Harness racing strongholds in canterbury and southland have seen irrigated land use double in the last 20 years. So many of the old school dairy farmers have been replaced by corporates,or individuals with a never ending quest to apparently build their own dairy farm empire with multiple dairy farms. Its not just other land users like harness trainers that have been shut out,the next generation of old school farmers either have to take on huge debt,and often walk away,taking their families knowledge with it. One thing that i have noted,the farmers i meet don't seem as happy as they used to be. Having major assets,but with big debt doesn't seem to help their happiness levels. So the cost of farmland in areas where harness racing is dominant is being impacted by forces outside their control. Industry leaders need to come up with a solution as far as having training centres go,otherwise it will impact future participation even more. Talking about the cost of land in areas where harness racing is dominant. I was interested to read that a company called"n.z. rural land and co" has been listed on the stock exchange with the intention of buying up rural properties big time. Their first purchase announced last month was for a 456 hectare dairy farm in southland which they then lease to a farmer for $515,667 a year. Then just this week they bought 14 farms in canterbury off a family group who had gone into liquidation for $114 million and lease them back to farmers for $5.8 million a year. They expect a return of just under 5%,and must also be banking on farms going up in value. The point is,if your a harness trainer,your just like a first home buyer,you would have to pay truly ridiculous and unjustifiable amounts for a piece of land,and what banks going to lend to a harness trainer trying to establish him/herself who can not produce evidence of income. And your not going to be able to lease land either when you see what others will pay for the lease. Edited April 30, 2021 by the galah 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.