JCA Hearing - Allford. Substance caught injecting was formalin.

[Gospel of Judas]

On 13/05/2021 at 4:15 PM, Brodie said:

Basil would even be better than what we have as Prime Minister at the moment.

None of the current lot have any business acumen at all and yet they are making these absolutely stupid decisions!

They are gone next time even with Collins as National leader

Could be even worse if Collins gets the knife. That is completely possible. Don't see her as Leader by Election time.

[Yankiwi]

MPI launches investigations into drugging of horses and greyhound | Stuff.co.nz

[Chief Stipe]

MPI launches investigations into drugging of horses and greyhound

Sam Sherwood and Martin Van Beynen12:32, May 14 2021

SUPPLIED

Horse Jimmy Cannon had eight podium finishes in 36 starts. The horse has since been put down.

Separate Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) investigations have been launched into a trainer who injected two horses with a banned substance, as well as a greyhound that won a premier race on methamphetamine.

On Friday an MPI spokeswoman confirmed to Stuff investigations were under way into two high-profile drugging cases.

One is in relation to disgraced harness racing trainer Jesse Alford, recently banned for seven years after he was caught in a covert sting operation injecting two horses with a prohibited substance on race day.

The other involves Foxton greyhound trainer Angela Turnwald, who was fined $3500 and disqualified for four months after her dog Zipping Sarah tested positive for methamphetamine after a race on November 12 in Christchurch. It was the third doping case in the greyhound racing industry in six months.

 

Alford’s charges come after animal rights advocacy group SAFE called for MPI to pursue criminal charges under the Animal Welfare Act.

 

CHRIS SKELTON/STUFF

Jesse Alford injected horses he trained with formalin, a banned substance.

“MPI should not be leaving the racing industry to police themselves. The mistreatment of animals is a serious offence under the Animal Welfare Act, and MPI should be pursuing criminal charges in cases like this,” a SAFE spokesman said.

Alford was caught red-handed on February 25 as he injected two horses, Johnny Nevits and Jimmy Cannon, with a substance and tried to tube one of them – two hours before they were due to race at the NZ Metropolitan Trotting Club meet at Addington Raceway.

Tubing is an illegal process that allows a chemical solution to be administered to a horse to improve its stamina.

123RF

Animal welfare in greyhound racing is under review in New Zealand. (Stock image)

MPI compliance director Gary Orr earlier said because the case was not reported to the ministry at the time of the incident, it was appropriate for it to be dealt with by the Judicial Control Authority – the primary body for investigating substance misuse.

“MPI is engaging an independent expert to provide additional advice regarding the application of methamphetamine to a greyhound as well as formalin/formaldehyde and bicarbonate of soda to a horse.”

In its decision on the Zipping Sarah case, the JCA said it could not establish who administered the drug or how it was administered, but it had to impose a sentence to ensure trainers were vigilant and took precautions to ensure their greyhounds did not consume prohibited substances before a race.

 

The authority heard Zipping Sarah was driven to Christchurch by Turnwald’s partner, a licensed kennel hand, who stopped for a few hours at a friend’s house in Kaiapoi where the dog got some exercise.

Turnwald initially claimed the meth could have come from syndicate members who patted the dog after the race, but abandoned the defence after the Racing Integrity Unit (RIU) brought scientific evidence to show Zipping Sarah must have ingested the meth before the race.

Racing Minister Grant Robertson has launched a review into greyhound racing, warning he was not satisfied with the industry's work on animal welfare.

 

[Chief Stipe]

Just now, Chief Stipe said:

Tubing is an illegal process that allows a chemical solution to be administered to a horse to improve its stamina.

 

Tubing is NOT an illegal process!!!!   It is a common veterinary technique to administer therapeutic substances to a horse.  

FFS if it isn't obvious to you all now what the true agenda of these two journalists is then you deserve what you get.

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

“MPI is engaging an independent expert to provide additional advice regarding the application of methamphetamine to a greyhound as well as formalin/formaldehyde and bicarbonate of soda to a horse.”

 

Good luck with filing criminal charges against Turnwald for the Greyhound positive.  They would have to identify who administered the methamphetamine to lay a charge against someone and there is no evidence that Turnwald did it.

The Alford case is different but I doubt that you could lay a criminal charge for the administration of bicarbonate of soda as it is commonly used as a therapeutic treatment.

The formalin administration may be a possibility for a criminal charge but I doubt if it would stick (excuse the pun).  The investigation would have to prove that the administration of the formalin in the concentration it was administered was harmful to the horse's welfare.  Now that would hinge on what the concentration of formalin was.  Formaldehyde is a naturally occurring chemical in all mammals performing and important biochemical function.  If I recall correctly it is produced naturally by the liver.

[Basil]

On 7/05/2021 at 7:38 PM, Davis said:

He has shown no remorse, he maintains his innocence. I am surprised that you find doping a horse worse than a male attacking a woman kicking her in the head and attempting to strangle her but that's just my contrary opinion. Working is fine. Under NZHC rules, Anderson is unable to work in any trotting stable for two years due to his offending. All Anderson had to do was behave for two years and he could have resumed his harness career. That is unlikely now.

Well, the horse is dead and the woman, although undoubtedly traumatised, is alive and well. Personally, if it came down to a choice between the firing squad and a bit of a kicking, I'd opt for the latter. Still, this could reflect my white male privilege, so I asked the uber-feminist Lady Basil for her view and, bugger me, she agreed.

The problem with your 'contrary opinion' is that, while reasonable in itself, it just confirms to outsiders their view that horse and dog racing insiders view their animals as disposable commodities.

[wally]

On 7/05/2021 at 2:37 PM, Chief Stipe said:

You are speculating as we don't know what the circumstances were.  It should also be noted that Anderson's 3 month home detention sentence ended in March this year.  He had done the hard part of his Court sentence which no doubt was part of the reason his supporters sought to get an exemption to get him reintegrated back into society.  

As for sneaking around that is a bit emotive.  Were the RIU hiding in bushes again?  Or did the 0800 RIU SNITCH line buzz?

I imagine Anderson has a considerable legal bill plus the $5,000 reparation payment and the JCA fines to pay.  Why shouldn't he be able to work behind the scenes of Harness Racing out of the public eye?

just starting reading this chief my thoughts anderson should be banned for life gees hitting and choking a woman how low can you go

[Chief Stipe]

21 minutes ago, wally said:

just starting reading this chief my thoughts anderson should be banned for life gees hitting and choking a woman how low can you go

He won't be banned from society for life nor any other job except probably being a Policeman.  What is so special about being a Harness Trainer or Driver?

[Richie]

On 15/05/2021 at 10:10 AM, Chief Stipe said:

Tubing is NOT an illegal process!!!!   It is a common veterinary technique to administer therapeutic substances to a horse.  

FFS if it isn't obvious to you all now what the true agenda of these two journalists is then you deserve what you get.

Pretty sure it's illegal on raceday

[Chief Stipe]

Just now, Richie said:

Pretty sure it's illegal on raceday

Only under the rules of racing and if the horse in question is racing that day.  It is still a legitimate veterinary technique for administering medication to horses, cattle, dogs and cats.  It is not illegal from an Animal Welfare Act perspective which was the topic of the article.  The journalists have deliberately misled.

I've been thinking about making a complaint on the basis it what they wrote is misleading and borders on misinformation.  At the very least it is sloppy journalism.

[Richie]

2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Only under the rules of racing and if the horse in question is racing that day.  It is still a legitimate veterinary technique for administering medication to horses, cattle, dogs and cats.  It is not illegal from an Animal Welfare Act perspective which was the topic of the article.  The journalists have deliberately misled.

I've been thinking about making a complaint on the basis it what they wrote is misleading and borders on misinformation.  At the very least it is sloppy journalism.

Yeah when I was in stable we found tubing supplements etc as being very beneficial to the horses after a hard race

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, Richie said:

Yeah when I was in stable we found tubing supplements etc as being very beneficial to the horses after a hard race

Especially if they tie up.  The bicarb neutralises the lactic acid which causes the tieing up problem.  Some horses are in considerable discomfort after a race because of it.  When I was younger and medium to long distance runner the lactic acid build up after a run could be right painful. 

Which is part of reason why I'm so concerned about this type of reporting.  I remember after running in the Canterbury under 18 New Brighton Steeplechase, which was one of the first races that my mother had attended, where she thought I was going to die and didn't want me to run another race again.  A couple of hours later I was demolishing a large steak and chips dinner and pleading for a beer!

The point is horses are athletes and some push themselves more than others which involves considerable discomfort/distress which would be upsetting to a naive outsider.  Their argument would be that the horse doesn't have a choice when in fact it does - the good athletes put in and go past the pain barrier to win.

A good trainer will identify the symptoms of a hard run and treat their horses accordingly.  A couple of weeks or even a few days later the horse is as keen as ever to get out and compete.

Is tubing a horse with Bicarb before a race more harmful than doing it after a race?  The answer is no.  Prior to a race it supposedly offers an advantage.  I say supposedly because the research is not clear.  We all know that horses bleed (EIPH) when racing - would it be better for animal welfare to allow the administration of Lasix before a race? 

[Gammalite]

19 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

He won't be banned from society for life nor any other job except probably being a Policeman.  What is so special about being a Harness Trainer or Driver?

A very special honour it is Chief !! lol... you're not just doing your sport for a living (or the love of it) but supplying entertainment, employment and even 'sometimes' money (lol), to staff, owners and punters.😄

you are right about young Anderson, that he still has to exist in Society, so employment important, and rehabilitation important too. like any offenders against the Laws of the Land, what choice is there? 

We had a dad bashed at a junior League footy match (again) last weekend at Wynnum, sadly, and 4 people arrested (guy now needing surgery),, and also in Brisbane, 2 blokes convicted this week, over smashing a guy with a metal pipe on side of highway (brain damaged for life now) got cut off on the road a while back!!! craziness. very sad. 

football and road rage?, why so angry ??? bash strangers near to death. Cannot believe it !!!

you are right that the incidents occurred 'outside the workplaces' . BUT all contained violence. a very serious and unnecessary offence. just not acceptable. Anderson included. so sentencing from the court (some even got jail) and their workplace (e.g some with a lost license for road offence may lose employment too?), And so even if a double Whammy like the 2 year NZHR ruling against Anderson. ALL Just part of the Penalty. Just has to do it .   

 

[Chief Stipe]

5 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

so even if a double Whammy like the 2 year NZHR ruling against Anderson. ALL Just part of the Penalty. Just has to do it .   

But why the double jeopardy?  As I have said many many times before the rules of racing were onced based on a puritanical holier than thou foundation.  That is racing had to be beyond repute because the perception was it was a dodgy pursuit that was open to manipulation because it involved gambling.  One of the scourges of society!

Really?

Racing because of anachronisms sets us up for constant falls.  It is just plain daft!

I know of a story of where someone was questioned in the family court because he had taken his daughter to a race meeting.  When asked why he replied - "she wanted to pat a horse, eat a hot dog and be with her dad - your honour"!  BTW the Judge was a known pisshead who liked a punt!

[Gammalite]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

But why the double jeopardy?

I think it is because harness racing is really in the public (society) Eye. 

just have a look at the general feeling on the Anderson Case on BOAY , I have seen from the 'general public' of BOAY. many are 'horrified' by the offence and are calling for the 'life' ban. 

I am happy with the 'Rules of Racing Ban' for serious offenders convicted in court . Two years seems light really. could very well of been jail.

Probably a good idea to give offenders with a 'serious crime conviction' a period of suspension out of harness racing,  to show the general public (society) that HRNZ Doesn't Condone that sort of behaviour. and gives them 'time that they should use to rehabilitate', and get off the drugs or alcohol or domestic violence attacks, whatever is going on in their lives that caused those issues in the first place.  

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Gammalite
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[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

think it is because harness racing is really in the public (society) Eye. 

Really?  Don't see that many on course or that many who mention it unless the journos mention it.

[Chief Stipe]

10 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

I am happy with the 'Rules of Racing Ban' for serious offenders convicted in court . Two years seems light really. could very well of been jail.

Why?  Does Harness Racing run a different court system from society?  

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Probably a good idea to give offenders with a 'serious crime conviction' a period of suspension out of harness racing,  to show the general public (society) that HRNZ Doesn't Condone that sort of behaviour. and gives them 'time that they should use to rehabilitate', and get off the drugs or alcohol or domestic violence attacks, whatever is going on in their lives that caused those issues in the first place.  

Perhaps but why longer than what the Court system does?  Is it because Harness Racing is so low that anyone associated with it should be the epitome of society?

Give me a break.  Why set standards that no other section in society can meet?

[Gammalite]

11 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Really?  Don't see that many on course or that many who mention it unless the journos mention it.

True, there are a lot of folk with 'Hidden' secrets under the bed (like Darren Weir lol......) that the public might not know about. But when they come out from under the bed , They COME OUT from under the bed like a big jigger.

Who wants people looking at harness racing and saying ,'Hey look !! there's the bloke who bashes his missus LAST WEEK and got convicted, winning that race! harness racing really is CRIMS on RIMS !!"

In 2 years time, the crime 'may' be forgotten, and if it is brought up by the  media, society, general public, BOAY whoever, we can all say..................

"Well that bloke who bashed his missus is back and doing well,!! served his time out and would probably think twice or three times about doing anything like that again !!!"   

Edited May 17, 2021 by Gammalite
add in

[Gammalite]

23 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why?  Does Harness Racing run a different court system from society?  

Yep, of course. the whip penalties, interference, swabs etc all 'local' on-course court with charges , submissions heard and penalties given. stewards are a mini court of their own. !!lol......

NOW 'race fixing' is different. These days, Now called match fixing . People are Arrested by the Police!!  . normal civil court rules and convictions. Pitt, and Nathan Jack in Vic (amanda Turnbull got off) Shane Graham and Vicki Rasmussen in QLD , all having regular court cases heard for 'Match fixing'.    Not taken lightly in Australia.

[Chief Stipe]

17 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Who wants people looking at harness racing and saying ,'Hey look !! there's the bloke who bashes his missus LAST WEEK and got convicted, winning that race! harness racing really is CRIMS on RIMS !!"

Only because people like you point it out.  Society sets the standard - Anderson got his punishment why does Harness Racing need to have a higher punishment or double down?

 

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Gammalite said:

Yep, of course. the whip penalties, interference, swabs etc all 'local' on-course court with charges , submissions heard and penalties given. stewards are a mini court of their own. !!lol......

That's WITHIN the sport of racing.  Why have dumb rules that penalise someone for having a blood alcohol level less than what they are allowed to drive a truck?

It is plain stupid.  

[Gammalite]

6 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's WITHIN the sport of racing.  Why have dumb rules that penalise someone for having a blood alcohol level less than what they are allowed to drive a truck?

It is plain stupid.  

Chief , a Lot of penalties (Court or Harness) are designed to be a Deterrent from re-offending ?????  yes?

e.g   6 months DQ and blemished record, for presenting horse with prohibited substance , etc. (way tougher than the Anderson penalty I might add) 

If Anderson could go on working horses at home as you would like , not enough changed??. Yeah he's not at races, sure! , but several staff at several stables Never attend the races. It Is very common. 

so he could possibly just continue on without any 'deterrent' punishment. not good enough .

So why let drivers drive at the 0.05 rate blood alcohol ???  Is that the road level?  plain stupid as you said.

Imagine a race driver (like the many on the road that are driving at 0.1 at any given time)  presenting that like , and saying yeah "I'm all good, only had 2" hahahahah  then a big stack in the race. You actually race centimetres from others wheels you know !!!!  and as you leave the track on a stretcher you could look across at the other driver GETTING A BREATH TEST !! hahah and he'd be like Brodie saying . "GEE I thought I was ALL good, Would of been under 0.05 by the first race I thought !!! "   ZERO is the best level for a race driver. 

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Perhaps but why longer than what the Court system does?  Is it because Harness Racing is so low that anyone associated with it should be the epitome of society?

Give me a break.  Why set standards that no other section in society can meet?

Yes , I think everyone can see what you mean. It is indeed a tricky affair.

When you get a License they have some rules that state you have to 'uphold' good character , and keep within the boundaries of the Law , or face loss of said license for 'x' period of time. which seems to be two years.

you want shorter term, many want life Ban term, I'll just go with the set rules term. even then he (Anderson) wanted to break it , so mighten be the best character around?.  

[paleface adios]

On 5/17/2021 at 12:10 PM, Chief Stipe said:

 

I've been thinking about making a complaint on the basis it what they wrote is misleading and borders on misinformation.  At the very least it is sloppy journalism.

hi chief just wondering did you make a complaint about sloppy journalism