Chief Stipe Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 14 minutes ago, JJ Flash said: No economies of scale, hopeless governance, management and declining popularity in terms of ownership., .breeding and gambling. Will end up as basically a hobby sport in the coming decades. I thought for a moment you were describing all the codes. Do you have data to back up your claims and your inference that Harness is doing worse than the other 3 codes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: @JJ Flash we have discussed this before. Compare the 2021 budget figures vs last years actual. From their website half yearly - subtract 6 from 14 and you get 8 i.e. they budgeted for 8% LESS: Total turnover was $1,589 million, which was $89 million (6 percent) above last year and $190 million above budget (14 percent). @JJ Flash no comment Flash? Or are you talking to your "sources"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 hour ago, JJ Flash said: Harness is in massive decline and basically not fixable.No economies of scale, hopeless governance, management and declining popularity in terms of ownership., .breeding and gambling. Will end up as basically a hobby sport in the coming decades. And if you understood racing as whole and galloping in particular you would realize that you were describing the whole all 3 codes . The only one of the above that will hold it's position is breeding , the rest as you say will end up a hobby sport for the rich and famous because the base of the industry will have demolished . Can you tell me where the few extra mill went , believe it was 2mill for the gallops , because i haven't seen it going anywhere , not that 2mill will achieve much . But what about the 20mill from the last 12 months cost savings ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 15 minutes ago, nomates said: Can you tell me where the few extra mill went , believe it was 2mill for the gallops , because i haven't seen it going anywhere , not that 2mill will achieve much . But what about the 20mill from the last 12 months cost savings ? You're wasting your time @nomates! @JJ Flash obviously can't read a balance sheet and relies on believing all the pimped up press releases from TAB NZ. TAB NZ have to renegotiate their loans and appease their insolvency manager (the DIA) before any more money can be distributed. That day of reckoning is 1 August however no doubt that will be deferred for some weeks as the "do the accounts"! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 12 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: You're wasting your time @nomates! @JJ Flash obviously can't read a balance sheet and relies on believing all the pimped up press releases from TAB NZ. TAB NZ have to renegotiate their loans and appease their insolvency manager (the DIA) before any more money can be distributed. That day of reckoning is 1 August however no doubt that will be deferred for some weeks as the "do the accounts"! Well they are confident they are going to at least have the same amount to distribute . Well i've been listening to him for the last 12 + months about how things were going to turn around , still waiting for anything , must be a big ship we're on . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, nomates said: Well they are confident they are going to at least have the same amount to distribute . They budgeted for less which they had to because there were no reserves left and a shyte load of debt that needed to be paid back! I guess in the end it will depend on how much is left over from the debt washup. In my opinion the industry would have been better off to bail out of TAB NZ and outsource. Then the daft contracts they signed and the debt could have been written off. Not exactly the honourable thing to do but big companies do it all the time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: TAB NZ have to renegotiate their loans and appease their insolvency manager Why would any bank not roll it over in this interest rate environment and given the improved balance sheet. Would you like to have a bet with me they wont? Go on make my day 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: They budgeted for less which they had to because there were no reserves left and a shyte load of debt that needed to be paid back! I guess in the end it will depend on how much is left over from the debt washup. In my opinion the industry would have been better off to bail out of TAB NZ and outsource. Then the daft contracts they signed and the debt could have been written off. Not exactly the honourable thing to do but big companies do it all the time. Shit I'm pleased you never ran a business that i had shares in if that's your type of solution 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 hours ago, nomates said: Well they are confident they are going to at least have the same amount to distribute . Well i've been listening to him for the last 12 + months about how things were going to turn around , still waiting for anything , must be a big ship we're on . So Bob , tell us all whether you think NZTAB is a better or worse operation now than when Allen and Hughes were sent packing. Simple question ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 On 26/05/2021 at 3:25 PM, Reefton said: I am almost getting to the stage of hoping the AWT at Riccarton is a raging success if only to shut you up. Your not alone On 26/05/2021 at 3:25 PM, Reefton said: You really are an idiot A bit harsh even though at times a few of us agree with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I thought for a moment you were describing all the codes. Do you have data to back up your claims and your inference that Harness is doing worse than the other 3 codes? Yes but wont be sharing with you- its all out there if you know the right places to look or people to talk to. Clue for you though ,GBM's are what count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 14 minutes ago, JJ Flash said: So Bob , tell us all whether you think NZTAB is a better or worse operation now than when Allen and Hughes were sent packing. Simple question ?? Got nothing solid to base it on , RITA made some cost cutting measures , 20mil worth but haven't seen where that all went . There's nothing else of substance out there , maybe when they throw a lump of money at racing that shows they are making huge increases in revenue then i will say they are doing great . But just believing blurbs that come out saying what they expect to achieve is for the naive , too many of us have been around too long and heard it all before . Produce results first , then blow your trumpet . As far as i can tell turnovers aren't going through the roof so i'm not holding my breath . As i have told you before you are entitled to believe what you want , i want solid long term changes before i make a call on whether either NZTAB or NZTR can be called succesful . I don't mind up being wrong because that means the sport i've loved for nearly 50 years is thriving again , so it's a win/win for me , although the negative is if i'm right then racing is still spiralling down , which isn't really a win . So basically i'm rooting for you . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 31 minutes ago, JJ Flash said: Yes but wont be sharing with you- its all out there if you know the right places to look or people to talk to. Clue for you though ,GBM's are what count In other words you don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 hours ago, JJ Flash said: Clue for you though ,GBM's are what count GBM? Excuse my ignorance WTF is a GBM? If you mean Gross Betting Margin then fine but what counts is Net Revenue and again they Budgeted less this year than last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 hours ago, JJ Flash said: Shit I'm pleased you never ran a business that i had shares in if that's your type of solution It's done all the time in the Corporate World. Wind up or sell a business to another party and all bets are generally off in terms of the prior vendor commitment. Ever heard of Corporate Raiders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 hours ago, JJ Flash said: Why would any bank not roll it over in this interest rate environment and given the improved balance sheet. Would you like to have a bet with me they wont? Go on make my day Because TAB NZ has no assets to secure a loan against. They were trading insolvent before the Government bailout enabled them to keep their Creditors at Bay. The only chance they have of a surety is if the Government acts as a guarantee. I wouldn't expect that to be a foregone conclusion. Don't forget the Messara report recommended outsourcing the wagering function. Instead they have doubled down on the stupid vendor contract. Outsourcing would have chopped tens of millions more out of costs than the slicing and dicing that they have done. Also don't forget they pushed costs off their balance sheet and onto the codes thereby making them look good but increasing the cost overall to the industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gospel of Judas Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 18 hours ago, Freda said: I can't understand where the supposed gains are coming from. I wouldn't have thought that the axeing of radio/printed information services, and the running-down of on-course tote options, would save as much money as touted. Equally, I can't understand why the b/s about covid causing such hardship to the TAB keeps getting trotted out. Surely, with racing in Australia available during that period, and no stakes or ancillary services to provide, the results should have been positive, not negative? Would gone on wage increases, other costs and other waste. Why think this whole act, iIs abit spin doctoring exercise and deception. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: GBM? Excuse my ignorance WTF is a GBM? If you mean Gross Betting Margin then fine but what counts is Net Revenue and again they Budgeted less this year than last. Exactly. A monocular focus on GBM like JJFlash seems to have is a recipe for disaster such as we have. All successful punters know this. If I have 100 bets at a 20% GBM, that is far worse a bottom line result for me than 200 bets at a 14% margin. It's not rocket science to anyone that understands the wagering business. Edited June 2, 2021 by curious 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, curious said: Exactly. A monocular focus on GBM like JJFlash seems to have is a recipe for disaster such as we have. All successful punters know this. If I have 100 bets at a 20% GBM, that is far worse a bottom line result for me than 200 bets at a 14% margin. It's not rocket science to anyone that understands the wagering business. I was referring to code payouts , as in who gets what. Methinks that RacingNZ board when finally established will work on GBM's which i suggest will favour TB's over other codes in terms of distributions. Harness GBM's are woeful and if you dont believe me watch how many favs win at Jewels in recent years , only 1 beaten according to Whale. No need for you to reply Chief, we all know your thoughts Edited June 2, 2021 by JJ Flash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, JJ Flash said: I was referring to code payouts , as in who gets what. Methinks that RacingNZ board when finally established will work on GBM's which i suggest will favour TB's over other codes in terms of distributions. That would just exacerbate the disaster. Can you not see that net revenue should be what the codes are rewarded for rather than GBM? Rewarding GBM will almost certainly contract the business. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, curious said: That would just exacerbate the disaster. Can you not see that net revenue should be what the codes are rewarded for rather than GBM? Rewarding GBM will almost certainly contract the business. What disaster? Whilst a i can see where you are coming from GBM's are a major part of total net revenue and are thus the best IMO metric for distribution purposes . Edited June 2, 2021 by JJ Flash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 35 minutes ago, JJ Flash said: Methinks that RacingNZ board when finally established will work on GBM's which i suggest will favour TB's over other codes in terms of distributions. Youthinks not much at all. Why would it favour TB's? The only way it could significantly favour TB's is if the Fixed Odds books were being manipulated. The Tote margins are fixed so there will be no difference in gross betting margins there. What you should be referring to is Gross Betting REVENUE not the Margin (assuming that the 'M' in 'GBM' stands for Margin). However as Curious points out the measure should be NET REVENUE if you are going to use % of revenue as the measure to distribute code funds. That is the real dollars contributed by each code. The only way gross or net revenue would favour TB's is because the imported races are skewed towards TB's. Now the RacingNZ Board (shit I thought we had got rid of this nonsense but now we have ANOTHER leech organisation) has statutory requirement to ensure that the distribution is equitable and fair. If they do their job and identify that the imported race revenue is unfairly skewed then they will adjust accordingly. Or they will base the distribution % on domestic net revenue. The latest figures I saw indicate that TB's will lose under than scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 25 minutes ago, JJ Flash said: What disaster? Whilst a i can see where you are coming from GBM's are a major part of total net revenue and are thus the best IMO metric for distribution purposes . Nope. Dead wrong. Net revenue is the appropriate metric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, JJ Flash said: What disaster? That net revenue generated by TR continues its long term decline and thereby the direct funding the industry generates for itself. Pretty hopeless situation as far as I can see and with escalatinig operating costs, particularly from the likes of the AWTs Edited June 2, 2021 by curious 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 3 hours ago, curious said: Nope. Dead wrong. Net revenue is the appropriate metric. It's a worry if the plods in charge are looking at the other way . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.