Chief Stipe Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Ray Green, pictured with Copy That, has plenty of concerns over the future with a dwindling horse population. Back to reality for Ray and Copy That - a dire situation where the mane drain is critical By Barry Lichter • 27 July 2021 Earnings on the trip Copy That A$130,455 American Dealer $A98,458 Tommy Lincoln A$24,223 The spectacular success enjoyed by Lincoln Farms’ trainer Ray Green at Queensland’s winter carnival has only served to highlight that urgent changes are needed back home. Green rounded out a lucrative month in Brisbane at Albion Park on Saturday night when American Dealer won the A$102,000 Queensland Derby, Tommy Lincoln won a A$20,000 support race and Copy That finished fourth in the A$250,000 Blacks A Fake Queensland Championship. With eight wins, the trio took their combined bankroll to A$253,256 in just a month in the state. But Green now faces the difficult task of trying to prepare Copy That for Grand Circuit racing in an environment where poor handicapping is fuelling the drain of horses overseas, reducing the number of horses progressing to the higher grades to an alarming extent. So few cup class horses are now trained in the North Island that Green fears it will be difficult to get enough racing for Copy That. Few rating 80 and higher horses left in the country Add Copy That and Krug to the list above and that’s all the horses here rated at 80 or higher. Chase Auckland is now retired.Harness Racing New Zealand figures show only 25 horses are left in the country rated at 80 and above, 23 in the country and Copy That and Krug soon to return from Brisbane campaigns. Just nine of these are trained in the north, and only five are rating 90 and higher. Exports are exploding again, 536 and still counting this season.And the issue is getting worse with bloodstock agents reporting a big upswing in sales in the last two months, June exports reaching 63, the highest for 12 months. This season, with July to come, we’ve seen the biggest exodus of harness horses to Australia and North America in the last five years, already 536 gone. And while that number includes a few racehorses who have returned, as well as some shuttle stallions, the comparative totals are still indicative of a major problem that Green says is not being addressed. The number of foals branded has dropped alarmingly since 2010.The number of branded foals recorded by HRNZ has nearly halved from 2800 in 2010 to just 1522 in 2020, and that’s not the racing population but the total pool, many of which won’t even see a training barn. “New Zealand racing is in a dire situation and can’t sustain this,” says Green. “So many horses are being sold it’s leaving a huge hole in our population. We can’t continue like this or we’ll end up with four horse fields and then it’s game over. “I can understand why people sell their horses - because our handicapping system doesn’t allow them to win enough money and the imbeciles here won’t look at handicapping options.” The horses Lincoln Farms have sent to Queensland in recent years have taken advantage of a far superior system that doesn’t penalise horses so quickly, says Green, keeping them competitive for much longer. Lincoln Farms plans to leave Tommy Lincoln and Captain Nemo in Queensland to continue to reap those benefits. Tommy Lincoln, who was having to race the best in New Zealand despite being only a rating 79 horse, has had four starts in Queensland for three wins and still does not have to compete against the free-for-allers. “On this trip we’ve earned more than a quarter of a million dollars and that’s pretty good,” says Green. “How long would it take to win that money in Auckland? “If Copy That had stayed home he would have been lucky to have got one start in a month in some manufactured race, probably off a long mark. “I can see there being no open class racing in the North Island before Christmas. “There’s some serious stuff to be sorted out and, while I know there’s a meeting of minds going on at the moment, it could be too little, too late - the damage is done. Where are we going to get all the broodmares we need to bring up the racing population?” Green says the days of people sending their horses from Southland or Auckland to race in Canterbury are numbered - “why would they go there when they can fly to Australia and get so much more opportunity?” Green says there are a raft of Grand Circuit races on the agenda for Copy That but he hasn’t been able to make any plans yet as no dates have been finalised in a rescheduling of the New Zealand calendar. “Hopefully by the time we need to get going again with Copy That they’ll have made some decisions.” The horse is due to fly home on August 8 for a short break. Is your favourite among those lost? Haven’t seen your favourite racing for a while? Chances are it’s among the many hundreds who have been sold overseas this season. Horses exported between August 1, 2020 and July 23, 2021 (including some stallions and a few horses on short campaigns) were: Australia Abundance, Accelere, Admirable, Adverse Reaction, Akarana Prince, Aladdin, Aladdin Sane, Alexia Rose, Allonblack, All The Rage, Alluring Tyron, Alpine Retreat, Alta Cassino, Alta Hurrah, Alta Madeira, Alta Sensation, Altimeter, Amarillo Slim, Amazing Dream, American Dealer, American Flyer, American Made, American Shuffle, Anam Nunu, Annerie, Another Masterpiece, Aorangi, Apieceoflou, Aqua Sancta, Arco, Arden Messi, Arden Roanoke, Arden’s Ace, Arocknatthepark, Art Lover, Art’s Bettor Secret, Ascalabus, Avana. Bad To The Bone, Baileys Knight, Baker Creek, Ball Of Art, Bankers Gold, Barika, Barkley, Barnaby, Bart Maguire, Been To Jenny’s, Belmont Diva, Belmont Royale, Bertie Jones, Bettathanfast, Bettor Blast, Bettor Call Me, Bettor Get It On, Bettor Have Faith, Bionic Stride, B K Swy, Black Edition, Blazing Banner, Blitzembye, Blue Chip Delight, Bondi Shake, Boomchuckalucka, Booraa, Born To Boogie, Bosch, Brantley, Brian Christopher, Brydon Earl, Budvar Eyre, Bull Speed Ahead, Bumpy J, Bundoran, Burnham Boy. Call Me Keith, Canstar, Captain Dan, Captain Max, Captain Nemo, Captain Pins, Carlos Bromac, Carrera Serena, Cassius, Cassius Bromac, Celebration Stride, Charm Offensive, Chase The Gold, Chase The Hat Trick, Chasing Great, Check In, Cheddar Made Beta, Cheddar Valley, Cherokee Jack, Chevron Art, Chevron Flies, Chiller Bay, Chinski, Christmas Babe, Chubby Checker, Colin Bromac, Colorado Banner, Conspirator, Constitution, Coolhand Easton, Copy That, Corbell, Corker Moment, Cowboys N Bandits, Crackabrie, Croesus, Cuchulainn, Cyclone S Adams. Dadndave, Davey Mac, Dawson Shard, Deal With Me, Delightful Dude, Delightful GNP, Delightful Major, Demand Respect, Deneuve, Deus Ex, Diego, Distinguished Taste, Don Coyote, Dont Lie To Me, Don’t Tell Tom, Dornoch, Double Up, Doubtless Bay, Dreamers Delight, Duastar, Duke Of Dundee. Eagle Watch, Easy Pickings, Enhance Your Calm, Euro Beat, Ezana. Father Brian, Flame Lady, Flash Party, Fleetmaster, Flight Crew, Foregone Conclusion, Forever Bettor, Forget The Price Tag, Forsure, Fortunia, Franco Nandor, Franco Nathan, Franco Riot, Freddiesam, Funky Monkey, Fynn Frost. Gambit, Gattling, Gayle Force, General Montana, Gil Favor, Give Me A Minute, Glenis’s Mama, Glenledi Chief, Globe Trekker, Going For Gold, Gold Chain, Gold Medley, Goodealehmaddie, Go One Bettor, Gopati, Great Fantasy, Great Presence, Guido Da Siena. Handsome Harry, Hattie, Havehorsewilltravel, Hawthornden Hunk, Hayden Bromac, Held To Ransom, Hello Gorgeous, Hello It’s Me, Helluva, Hemsworth, He’s A Ladies Man, Hesallmuscle, Hey Sam, Hezacrocwatcher, Hidden Delight, Hittheroadjack, Home And Dry, Honour Stride, Horse Of Course, Hot N Gold, How Doo You Doo, Hugo George, Humble Ladd. Ideal Draw, Ideal Sports Girl, Ideologist, I’m Jimmy James, In Chevron We Trust, In Flanders Fields, Inherent Royal, In The Spotlight, Ira Poole, Isaac H, Isitwrongtobexcited, Isla’s Joy, Italian Lad, Itsmeantobe, Itz Flash Harriet, I Want It All. Jacks N Jazz, Jaffa Josh, Jawbreaker, Jay Tee Tyron, Jazzy Star, Jemma, Jimmy The Irishman, Jodi, Johnson Step, Jolene Jolene, Joshua Dylan, Jumpingjackmac, Justamollyarcher, Just As Well. Kase, Keegan Banner, Kensington Bill, Khaki Nui, King City, Kingmaker, King Of Trumps, Kiwi Jewel, Kiwis Are Flying, Krug, Kusadasi, Kuyomi La Bella Vita, Lady Ida, Lady Jayne, Lady Loins, Lagertha, La La Land, Lalibela, Lapize, Larry Lincoln, Last Place Lucy, Latina Hall, Lavazza, Lawrence, Leaf Stride, Leer, Leithen Burn, Lennox Bromac, Letherhairdown, Lets Hustle, Lightning Lana, Lillie May, Lils Nightmare, Linebacker, Lislady, L L Cool J, Loch Ness Franco, Longueval, Lotamuscle, Lottie Moon, Louie The Horse, Louis Litt, Louthario, Love A Dance, Luke John. Mach Little Soaky, Mach Shard, Machs Mareta, Madeakillin, Maestoso, Maggie, Magic Mike, Magicol Ideal, Majestic Hurricane, Majestic Man, Majorca, Major Meister, Major Watson, Man Of Action, Marianna Bromac, Marie Long, Master Stride, Matau Jess, Mazikeen, Melton Beach, Memphis In May, Mexicana, Mia Ragazza, Midnight Assassin, Mighty Flying Art, Mighty Looee, Military Man, Millie Francis, Millwood Jesse, Millwood Manhattan, Mini Me, Minstrel, Miss Mucho, Miss Serenade, Miss Taken, Missucci, Money Honey, Mongolian Cavalry, Mongolian Conqueror, Montana Glory, Montana Jet, Montana Storm, Montefiore, Morningstar Gold, Mr Bohannon, Mr Clooney, Mr Fantastic, Mufasa. Natty Pagger, Nearis Green, Needamargarita, Nerano, Nikita, Nina Simone, Noble Lavros, No Nukes Skipper, Noosa Beach, Nota Bene Denario. Oaxacan Dream, Ohoka Chopper, Old Luke, Olivia Rachel, Once Bitten, Onedin Punter, One Majic Kenny, One Over Da Son, Onesmartfella, On The Buzzer, Ontherocks, Our Spitfire. Paramount Princess, Patriot Stride, Pats Dragon, Payment Plan, Pembrook Charlie, Perfect Cut, Petrea Bromac, Plutonium, Pocket Book, Pocket The Change, Polka Dot Dance, Posh Fella, Potro, Prairie, Pretty Majestic, Prince Of Pleasure, Princess Tiffany, Prodigal Guinness, Punt Away Queen Elida, Queenofdance, Queen Of Strathfield, Quick As Fire, Quick Step. Racketeers Boy, Ragazzo Mach, Rakasharp, Reachforthetill, Reckon Im Smart, Red Castleton, Red Envy, Red Reactor, Regal Aspirant, Revitalise, Richard The Third, Richmond Tiger, Riley Moment, Ringo’s A Star, Riteur, Rocket Boy, Rocknroll King, Rocknroll Max, Rock N Roll Waltz, Roll The Dice, Roll With Eunice, Roma Rosa, Royal Essence, Ruby Baby, Russley Rush. Sagano, Saint Tropez, Sandy’s Ideal, Scott Real Speed, Seamark, See Ya Write, Sekkie Monkey, Sense Of Occasion, Set Me Free, Shadow Minister, Shanhill, Shanlou, Sheffield Sparky, Silent Rapture, Silver Surfer, Simply Shaz, Sir Lincoln, Skippys Delight, Skye Mary Mac, Skyzrclearnsunny, Smoken Shazza, Smooth Deal, Social Media, Souffle, Soundslikeart, Southern Belle, Spankem, Spellbound, Spikey Boy, Spirited Belle, Spirit Of Anzac, Spirit Of St Louis, Sportingjoy, Sport Mental, Square Dealer, Stamford, Star Galleria, Starlight Stride, Starlito, Star Of Timpany, Star Ruler, Stars N Bars, Starvin Marvin, Star Watch, Stavros The Terror, Stealth Bomba, Stick Man, Stinger Lindenny, Stratofortress, Stun Gun, Stylish Memphis, Styx Kiwi, Sugarinspice, Summer Pants, Sunny Petite, Surfers Delight, Sweet American, Sweet Chariot, Sweet Heaven, Sweet Jesse, Sweet On You, Swiss Miss. Tact Fergie, Tailored Elegance, Takemetothebeach, Take My Wallet, Tango Tara, Targaryen, Tartan Robyn, Tears Of Joy, Tell Me This, Tenzing Bromac, Terror The Christian, Terrortorial, Texas Red, Texas Tara, Texas Tiger, The Banker, The Batmobile, The Croupier, The General, The Hustler, The Kapiti Express, The Kingsman, The Paua Diver, The Vicars Daughter, The Whizard, The Whiz Kid, This Is Bettor, Three Rivers, Thug Rose, Thumbs Up, Ticktockpocketwatch, Toby O’Gara, Tommy Lincoln, Toro Stride, Touche, Tough Monarch, Town Echo, Treasure Me, Tricky Ric, Triple Eight, Triple VC, Trix Of Time, Tuxedo Bromac. Ultimate Machete, Ultimate Rocker, Ultimate Sniper, Ultimate Stride, Ultimate Temptation, Under Wraps, Unfinished Business, Urus. Valley Star, Verstappen, Vespa, Vincent Van Gone, Vindicate, Virginia Cool, Vulcan Star. Wainui Creek, Wat A Feeling, Wattlebank Lass, What’s Your Secret, Whatwillbeewillbee, Whisky Neat, White Lightning, Whole Lotta Rosie, Who’s My Mother, Wildestdreams, Windsor, With Revenge, Woodlands Rose, Would You Mind, Write About Angus. Xebec. Yahoo, Yellowstone, Yorkshire, Young Conqueror, You Really Got Me, You’re So Fine. Zaccy Mac, Zambia, Zeus Dan. Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed. Canada Bettor’s Delight, The Bandit Queen United States A Delightful Act, Ashley Locaz, Belmont Major, Bettor’s Heart, Beyond Words, Burlington, Captain Crunch, Delightful Catherine, Downbytheseaside, He’s Gratis, Im A Gigolo, Itz Alldown To Luck, J Bee, Kickupyaheels, Let’s Fly Together, Mossdale Lottee, Nandolo, Nevada, Nui Ba Den, On The Cards, Rydgemont Son, Sheriff, Sweet Lou, Tyron’s Bit Of Lemon, Underthesouthernsun, Watch Me Now, What The Hill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Green, pictured with Copy That, has plenty of concerns over the future with a dwindling horse population. Back to reality for Ray and Copy That - a dire situation where the mane drain is critical By Barry Lichter • 27 July 2021 Earnings on the trip Copy That A$130,455 American Dealer $A98,458 Tommy Lincoln A$24,223 The spectacular success enjoyed by Lincoln Farms’ trainer Ray Green at Queensland’s winter carnival has only served to highlight that urgent changes are needed back home. Green rounded out a lucrative month in Brisbane at Albion Park on Saturday night when American Dealer won the A$102,000 Queensland Derby, Tommy Lincoln won a A$20,000 support race and Copy That finished fourth in the A$250,000 Blacks A Fake Queensland Championship. With eight wins, the trio took their combined bankroll to A$253,256 in just a month in the state. But Green now faces the difficult task of trying to prepare Copy That for Grand Circuit racing in an environment where poor handicapping is fuelling the drain of horses overseas, reducing the number of horses progressing to the higher grades to an alarming extent. So few cup class horses are now trained in the North Island that Green fears it will be difficult to get enough racing for Copy That. Few rating 80 and higher horses left in the country Add Copy That and Krug to the list above and that’s all the horses here rated at 80 or higher. Chase Auckland is now retired.Harness Racing New Zealand figures show only 25 horses are left in the country rated at 80 and above, 23 in the country and Copy That and Krug soon to return from Brisbane campaigns. Just nine of these are trained in the north, and only five are rating 90 and higher. Exports are exploding again, 536 and still counting this season.And the issue is getting worse with bloodstock agents reporting a big upswing in sales in the last two months, June exports reaching 63, the highest for 12 months. This season, with July to come, we’ve seen the biggest exodus of harness horses to Australia and North America in the last five years, already 536 gone. And while that number includes a few racehorses who have returned, as well as some shuttle stallions, the comparative totals are still indicative of a major problem that Green says is not being addressed. The number of foals branded has dropped alarmingly since 2010.The number of branded foals recorded by HRNZ has nearly halved from 2800 in 2010 to just 1522 in 2020, and that’s not the racing population but the total pool, many of which won’t even see a training barn. “New Zealand racing is in a dire situation and can’t sustain this,” says Green. “So many horses are being sold it’s leaving a huge hole in our population. We can’t continue like this or we’ll end up with four horse fields and then it’s game over. “I can understand why people sell their horses - because our handicapping system doesn’t allow them to win enough money and the imbeciles here won’t look at handicapping options.” The horses Lincoln Farms have sent to Queensland in recent years have taken advantage of a far superior system that doesn’t penalise horses so quickly, says Green, keeping them competitive for much longer. Lincoln Farms plans to leave Tommy Lincoln and Captain Nemo in Queensland to continue to reap those benefits. Tommy Lincoln, who was having to race the best in New Zealand despite being only a rating 79 horse, has had four starts in Queensland for three wins and still does not have to compete against the free-for-allers. “On this trip we’ve earned more than a quarter of a million dollars and that’s pretty good,” says Green. “How long would it take to win that money in Auckland? “If Copy That had stayed home he would have been lucky to have got one start in a month in some manufactured race, probably off a long mark. “I can see there being no open class racing in the North Island before Christmas. “There’s some serious stuff to be sorted out and, while I know there’s a meeting of minds going on at the moment, it could be too little, too late - the damage is done. Where are we going to get all the broodmares we need to bring up the racing population?” Green says the days of people sending their horses from Southland or Auckland to race in Canterbury are numbered - “why would they go there when they can fly to Australia and get so much more opportunity?” Green says there are a raft of Grand Circuit races on the agenda for Copy That but he hasn’t been able to make any plans yet as no dates have been finalised in a rescheduling of the New Zealand calendar. “Hopefully by the time we need to get going again with Copy That they’ll have made some decisions.” The horse is due to fly home on August 8 for a short break. Is your favourite among those lost? Haven’t seen your favourite racing for a while? Chances are it’s among the many hundreds who have been sold overseas this season. Horses exported between August 1, 2020 and July 23, 2021 (including some stallions and a few horses on short campaigns) were: Australia Abundance, Accelere, Admirable, Adverse Reaction, Akarana Prince, Aladdin, Aladdin Sane, Alexia Rose, Allonblack, All The Rage, Alluring Tyron, Alpine Retreat, Alta Cassino, Alta Hurrah, Alta Madeira, Alta Sensation, Altimeter, Amarillo Slim, Amazing Dream, American Dealer, American Flyer, American Made, American Shuffle, Anam Nunu, Annerie, Another Masterpiece, Aorangi, Apieceoflou, Aqua Sancta, Arco, Arden Messi, Arden Roanoke, Arden’s Ace, Arocknatthepark, Art Lover, Art’s Bettor Secret, Ascalabus, Avana. Bad To The Bone, Baileys Knight, Baker Creek, Ball Of Art, Bankers Gold, Barika, Barkley, Barnaby, Bart Maguire, Been To Jenny’s, Belmont Diva, Belmont Royale, Bertie Jones, Bettathanfast, Bettor Blast, Bettor Call Me, Bettor Get It On, Bettor Have Faith, Bionic Stride, B K Swy, Black Edition, Blazing Banner, Blitzembye, Blue Chip Delight, Bondi Shake, Boomchuckalucka, Booraa, Born To Boogie, Bosch, Brantley, Brian Christopher, Brydon Earl, Budvar Eyre, Bull Speed Ahead, Bumpy J, Bundoran, Burnham Boy. Call Me Keith, Canstar, Captain Dan, Captain Max, Captain Nemo, Captain Pins, Carlos Bromac, Carrera Serena, Cassius, Cassius Bromac, Celebration Stride, Charm Offensive, Chase The Gold, Chase The Hat Trick, Chasing Great, Check In, Cheddar Made Beta, Cheddar Valley, Cherokee Jack, Chevron Art, Chevron Flies, Chiller Bay, Chinski, Christmas Babe, Chubby Checker, Colin Bromac, Colorado Banner, Conspirator, Constitution, Coolhand Easton, Copy That, Corbell, Corker Moment, Cowboys N Bandits, Crackabrie, Croesus, Cuchulainn, Cyclone S Adams. Dadndave, Davey Mac, Dawson Shard, Deal With Me, Delightful Dude, Delightful GNP, Delightful Major, Demand Respect, Deneuve, Deus Ex, Diego, Distinguished Taste, Don Coyote, Dont Lie To Me, Don’t Tell Tom, Dornoch, Double Up, Doubtless Bay, Dreamers Delight, Duastar, Duke Of Dundee. Eagle Watch, Easy Pickings, Enhance Your Calm, Euro Beat, Ezana. Father Brian, Flame Lady, Flash Party, Fleetmaster, Flight Crew, Foregone Conclusion, Forever Bettor, Forget The Price Tag, Forsure, Fortunia, Franco Nandor, Franco Nathan, Franco Riot, Freddiesam, Funky Monkey, Fynn Frost. Gambit, Gattling, Gayle Force, General Montana, Gil Favor, Give Me A Minute, Glenis’s Mama, Glenledi Chief, Globe Trekker, Going For Gold, Gold Chain, Gold Medley, Goodealehmaddie, Go One Bettor, Gopati, Great Fantasy, Great Presence, Guido Da Siena. Handsome Harry, Hattie, Havehorsewilltravel, Hawthornden Hunk, Hayden Bromac, Held To Ransom, Hello Gorgeous, Hello It’s Me, Helluva, Hemsworth, He’s A Ladies Man, Hesallmuscle, Hey Sam, Hezacrocwatcher, Hidden Delight, Hittheroadjack, Home And Dry, Honour Stride, Horse Of Course, Hot N Gold, How Doo You Doo, Hugo George, Humble Ladd. Ideal Draw, Ideal Sports Girl, Ideologist, I’m Jimmy James, In Chevron We Trust, In Flanders Fields, Inherent Royal, In The Spotlight, Ira Poole, Isaac H, Isitwrongtobexcited, Isla’s Joy, Italian Lad, Itsmeantobe, Itz Flash Harriet, I Want It All. Jacks N Jazz, Jaffa Josh, Jawbreaker, Jay Tee Tyron, Jazzy Star, Jemma, Jimmy The Irishman, Jodi, Johnson Step, Jolene Jolene, Joshua Dylan, Jumpingjackmac, Justamollyarcher, Just As Well. Kase, Keegan Banner, Kensington Bill, Khaki Nui, King City, Kingmaker, King Of Trumps, Kiwi Jewel, Kiwis Are Flying, Krug, Kusadasi, Kuyomi La Bella Vita, Lady Ida, Lady Jayne, Lady Loins, Lagertha, La La Land, Lalibela, Lapize, Larry Lincoln, Last Place Lucy, Latina Hall, Lavazza, Lawrence, Leaf Stride, Leer, Leithen Burn, Lennox Bromac, Letherhairdown, Lets Hustle, Lightning Lana, Lillie May, Lils Nightmare, Linebacker, Lislady, L L Cool J, Loch Ness Franco, Longueval, Lotamuscle, Lottie Moon, Louie The Horse, Louis Litt, Louthario, Love A Dance, Luke John. Mach Little Soaky, Mach Shard, Machs Mareta, Madeakillin, Maestoso, Maggie, Magic Mike, Magicol Ideal, Majestic Hurricane, Majestic Man, Majorca, Major Meister, Major Watson, Man Of Action, Marianna Bromac, Marie Long, Master Stride, Matau Jess, Mazikeen, Melton Beach, Memphis In May, Mexicana, Mia Ragazza, Midnight Assassin, Mighty Flying Art, Mighty Looee, Military Man, Millie Francis, Millwood Jesse, Millwood Manhattan, Mini Me, Minstrel, Miss Mucho, Miss Serenade, Miss Taken, Missucci, Money Honey, Mongolian Cavalry, Mongolian Conqueror, Montana Glory, Montana Jet, Montana Storm, Montefiore, Morningstar Gold, Mr Bohannon, Mr Clooney, Mr Fantastic, Mufasa. Natty Pagger, Nearis Green, Needamargarita, Nerano, Nikita, Nina Simone, Noble Lavros, No Nukes Skipper, Noosa Beach, Nota Bene Denario. Oaxacan Dream, Ohoka Chopper, Old Luke, Olivia Rachel, Once Bitten, Onedin Punter, One Majic Kenny, One Over Da Son, Onesmartfella, On The Buzzer, Ontherocks, Our Spitfire. Paramount Princess, Patriot Stride, Pats Dragon, Payment Plan, Pembrook Charlie, Perfect Cut, Petrea Bromac, Plutonium, Pocket Book, Pocket The Change, Polka Dot Dance, Posh Fella, Potro, Prairie, Pretty Majestic, Prince Of Pleasure, Princess Tiffany, Prodigal Guinness, Punt Away Queen Elida, Queenofdance, Queen Of Strathfield, Quick As Fire, Quick Step. Racketeers Boy, Ragazzo Mach, Rakasharp, Reachforthetill, Reckon Im Smart, Red Castleton, Red Envy, Red Reactor, Regal Aspirant, Revitalise, Richard The Third, Richmond Tiger, Riley Moment, Ringo’s A Star, Riteur, Rocket Boy, Rocknroll King, Rocknroll Max, Rock N Roll Waltz, Roll The Dice, Roll With Eunice, Roma Rosa, Royal Essence, Ruby Baby, Russley Rush. Sagano, Saint Tropez, Sandy’s Ideal, Scott Real Speed, Seamark, See Ya Write, Sekkie Monkey, Sense Of Occasion, Set Me Free, Shadow Minister, Shanhill, Shanlou, Sheffield Sparky, Silent Rapture, Silver Surfer, Simply Shaz, Sir Lincoln, Skippys Delight, Skye Mary Mac, Skyzrclearnsunny, Smoken Shazza, Smooth Deal, Social Media, Souffle, Soundslikeart, Southern Belle, Spankem, Spellbound, Spikey Boy, Spirited Belle, Spirit Of Anzac, Spirit Of St Louis, Sportingjoy, Sport Mental, Square Dealer, Stamford, Star Galleria, Starlight Stride, Starlito, Star Of Timpany, Star Ruler, Stars N Bars, Starvin Marvin, Star Watch, Stavros The Terror, Stealth Bomba, Stick Man, Stinger Lindenny, Stratofortress, Stun Gun, Stylish Memphis, Styx Kiwi, Sugarinspice, Summer Pants, Sunny Petite, Surfers Delight, Sweet American, Sweet Chariot, Sweet Heaven, Sweet Jesse, Sweet On You, Swiss Miss. Tact Fergie, Tailored Elegance, Takemetothebeach, Take My Wallet, Tango Tara, Targaryen, Tartan Robyn, Tears Of Joy, Tell Me This, Tenzing Bromac, Terror The Christian, Terrortorial, Texas Red, Texas Tara, Texas Tiger, The Banker, The Batmobile, The Croupier, The General, The Hustler, The Kapiti Express, The Kingsman, The Paua Diver, The Vicars Daughter, The Whizard, The Whiz Kid, This Is Bettor, Three Rivers, Thug Rose, Thumbs Up, Ticktockpocketwatch, Toby O’Gara, Tommy Lincoln, Toro Stride, Touche, Tough Monarch, Town Echo, Treasure Me, Tricky Ric, Triple Eight, Triple VC, Trix Of Time, Tuxedo Bromac. Ultimate Machete, Ultimate Rocker, Ultimate Sniper, Ultimate Stride, Ultimate Temptation, Under Wraps, Unfinished Business, Urus. Valley Star, Verstappen, Vespa, Vincent Van Gone, Vindicate, Virginia Cool, Vulcan Star. Wainui Creek, Wat A Feeling, Wattlebank Lass, What’s Your Secret, Whatwillbeewillbee, Whisky Neat, White Lightning, Whole Lotta Rosie, Who’s My Mother, Wildestdreams, Windsor, With Revenge, Woodlands Rose, Would You Mind, Write About Angus. Xebec. Yahoo, Yellowstone, Yorkshire, Young Conqueror, You Really Got Me, You’re So Fine. Zaccy Mac, Zambia, Zeus Dan. Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed. Canada Bettor’s Delight, The Bandit Queen United States A Delightful Act, Ashley Locaz, Belmont Major, Bettor’s Heart, Beyond Words, Burlington, Captain Crunch, Delightful Catherine, Downbytheseaside, He’s Gratis, Im A Gigolo, Itz Alldown To Luck, J Bee, Kickupyaheels, Let’s Fly Together, Mossdale Lottee, Nandolo, Nevada, Nui Ba Den, On The Cards, Rydgemont Son, Sheriff, Sweet Lou, Tyron’s Bit Of Lemon, Underthesouthernsun, Watch Me Now, What The Hill.
Gammalite Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 Well that article does show a dire situation. Not enough horses left for racing = No racing in the future , at that rate of decline. Today 60% of Australia's population (Mel,Syd,Bris,Newcastle) is in lockdown as covid cases excellerate , getting out of control. Amazingly the harness racing and horse racing continues in those areas unabated ? (Not sure how it is an essential service) so many folk told to 'Stay at home' and their businesses struggle to stop the spread. Where as the harness folk , are travelling all over the place? some things don't make sense. Like hotel quarantine being conducted in Major cities .... lol. with 3 planes from India every week still coming in lol... Did they think it could be contained ? lol. I could of told them straight up THATs NOT POSSIBLE. And now, An estimated 10,000 people a day lose their jobs in Australia this week from it. protestors arrested in Melbourne. all getting a bit stressing/depressing. They will be trouble next week, once the 'Olympics Distraction ' feel-good moments dry up , that's for sure. Anyway , we were lucky enough to have that July window between lockdowns , and see the great kiwi representation at Brisbane last month racing at Albion Park, and the great efforts by Ray Green's horses in the article above. Great stuff by Ray there!!!. AND At least Super Horses Copy That and Krug went back home again !! thank goodness , so you can still get to see them race in NZ later in year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 6, 2021 Author Share Posted August 6, 2021 39 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Well that article does show a dire situation. Not enough horses left for racing = No racing in the future , at that rate of decline. Some simple solutions. CHANGE THE HANDICAPPING SYSTEM! Keep good sound geldings in racing! The same issue and same solution applies in Thoroughbred Racing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Ray Green, pictured with Copy That, has plenty of concerns over the future with a dwindling horse population. Back to reality for Ray and Copy That - a dire situation where the mane drain is critical By Barry Lichter • 27 July 2021 Earnings on the trip Copy That A$130,455 American Dealer $A98,458 Tommy Lincoln A$24,223 The spectacular success enjoyed by Lincoln Farms’ trainer Ray Green at Queensland’s winter carnival has only served to highlight that urgent changes are needed back home. Green rounded out a lucrative month in Brisbane at Albion Park on Saturday night when American Dealer won the A$102,000 Queensland Derby, Tommy Lincoln won a A$20,000 support race and Copy That finished fourth in the A$250,000 Blacks A Fake Queensland Championship. With eight wins, the trio took their combined bankroll to A$253,256 in just a month in the state. But Green now faces the difficult task of trying to prepare Copy That for Grand Circuit racing in an environment where poor handicapping is fuelling the drain of horses overseas, reducing the number of horses progressing to the higher grades to an alarming extent. So few cup class horses are now trained in the North Island that Green fears it will be difficult to get enough racing for Copy That. Few rating 80 and higher horses left in the country Add Copy That and Krug to the list above and that’s all the horses here rated at 80 or higher. Chase Auckland is now retired.Harness Racing New Zealand figures show only 25 horses are left in the country rated at 80 and above, 23 in the country and Copy That and Krug soon to return from Brisbane campaigns. Just nine of these are trained in the north, and only five are rating 90 and higher. Exports are exploding again, 536 and still counting this season.And the issue is getting worse with bloodstock agents reporting a big upswing in sales in the last two months, June exports reaching 63, the highest for 12 months. This season, with July to come, we’ve seen the biggest exodus of harness horses to Australia and North America in the last five years, already 536 gone. And while that number includes a few racehorses who have returned, as well as some shuttle stallions, the comparative totals are still indicative of a major problem that Green says is not being addressed. The number of foals branded has dropped alarmingly since 2010.The number of branded foals recorded by HRNZ has nearly halved from 2800 in 2010 to just 1522 in 2020, and that’s not the racing population but the total pool, many of which won’t even see a training barn. “New Zealand racing is in a dire situation and can’t sustain this,” says Green. “So many horses are being sold it’s leaving a huge hole in our population. We can’t continue like this or we’ll end up with four horse fields and then it’s game over. “I can understand why people sell their horses - because our handicapping system doesn’t allow them to win enough money and the imbeciles here won’t look at handicapping options.” The horses Lincoln Farms have sent to Queensland in recent years have taken advantage of a far superior system that doesn’t penalise horses so quickly, says Green, keeping them competitive for much longer. Lincoln Farms plans to leave Tommy Lincoln and Captain Nemo in Queensland to continue to reap those benefits. Tommy Lincoln, who was having to race the best in New Zealand despite being only a rating 79 horse, has had four starts in Queensland for three wins and still does not have to compete against the free-for-allers. “On this trip we’ve earned more than a quarter of a million dollars and that’s pretty good,” says Green. “How long would it take to win that money in Auckland? “If Copy That had stayed home he would have been lucky to have got one start in a month in some manufactured race, probably off a long mark. “I can see there being no open class racing in the North Island before Christmas. “There’s some serious stuff to be sorted out and, while I know there’s a meeting of minds going on at the moment, it could be too little, too late - the damage is done. Where are we going to get all the broodmares we need to bring up the racing population?” Green says the days of people sending their horses from Southland or Auckland to race in Canterbury are numbered - “why would they go there when they can fly to Australia and get so much more opportunity?” Green says there are a raft of Grand Circuit races on the agenda for Copy That but he hasn’t been able to make any plans yet as no dates have been finalised in a rescheduling of the New Zealand calendar. “Hopefully by the time we need to get going again with Copy That they’ll have made some decisions.” The horse is due to fly home on August 8 for a short break. Is your favourite among those lost? Haven’t seen your favourite racing for a while? Chances are it’s among the many hundreds who have been sold overseas this season. Horses exported between August 1, 2020 and July 23, 2021 (including some stallions and a few horses on short campaigns) were: Australia Abundance, Accelere, Admirable, Adverse Reaction, Akarana Prince, Aladdin, Aladdin Sane, Alexia Rose, Allonblack, All The Rage, Alluring Tyron, Alpine Retreat, Alta Cassino, Alta Hurrah, Alta Madeira, Alta Sensation, Altimeter, Amarillo Slim, Amazing Dream, American Dealer, American Flyer, American Made, American Shuffle, Anam Nunu, Annerie, Another Masterpiece, Aorangi, Apieceoflou, Aqua Sancta, Arco, Arden Messi, Arden Roanoke, Arden’s Ace, Arocknatthepark, Art Lover, Art’s Bettor Secret, Ascalabus, Avana. Bad To The Bone, Baileys Knight, Baker Creek, Ball Of Art, Bankers Gold, Barika, Barkley, Barnaby, Bart Maguire, Been To Jenny’s, Belmont Diva, Belmont Royale, Bertie Jones, Bettathanfast, Bettor Blast, Bettor Call Me, Bettor Get It On, Bettor Have Faith, Bionic Stride, B K Swy, Black Edition, Blazing Banner, Blitzembye, Blue Chip Delight, Bondi Shake, Boomchuckalucka, Booraa, Born To Boogie, Bosch, Brantley, Brian Christopher, Brydon Earl, Budvar Eyre, Bull Speed Ahead, Bumpy J, Bundoran, Burnham Boy. Call Me Keith, Canstar, Captain Dan, Captain Max, Captain Nemo, Captain Pins, Carlos Bromac, Carrera Serena, Cassius, Cassius Bromac, Celebration Stride, Charm Offensive, Chase The Gold, Chase The Hat Trick, Chasing Great, Check In, Cheddar Made Beta, Cheddar Valley, Cherokee Jack, Chevron Art, Chevron Flies, Chiller Bay, Chinski, Christmas Babe, Chubby Checker, Colin Bromac, Colorado Banner, Conspirator, Constitution, Coolhand Easton, Copy That, Corbell, Corker Moment, Cowboys N Bandits, Crackabrie, Croesus, Cuchulainn, Cyclone S Adams. Dadndave, Davey Mac, Dawson Shard, Deal With Me, Delightful Dude, Delightful GNP, Delightful Major, Demand Respect, Deneuve, Deus Ex, Diego, Distinguished Taste, Don Coyote, Dont Lie To Me, Don’t Tell Tom, Dornoch, Double Up, Doubtless Bay, Dreamers Delight, Duastar, Duke Of Dundee. Eagle Watch, Easy Pickings, Enhance Your Calm, Euro Beat, Ezana. Father Brian, Flame Lady, Flash Party, Fleetmaster, Flight Crew, Foregone Conclusion, Forever Bettor, Forget The Price Tag, Forsure, Fortunia, Franco Nandor, Franco Nathan, Franco Riot, Freddiesam, Funky Monkey, Fynn Frost. Gambit, Gattling, Gayle Force, General Montana, Gil Favor, Give Me A Minute, Glenis’s Mama, Glenledi Chief, Globe Trekker, Going For Gold, Gold Chain, Gold Medley, Goodealehmaddie, Go One Bettor, Gopati, Great Fantasy, Great Presence, Guido Da Siena. Handsome Harry, Hattie, Havehorsewilltravel, Hawthornden Hunk, Hayden Bromac, Held To Ransom, Hello Gorgeous, Hello It’s Me, Helluva, Hemsworth, He’s A Ladies Man, Hesallmuscle, Hey Sam, Hezacrocwatcher, Hidden Delight, Hittheroadjack, Home And Dry, Honour Stride, Horse Of Course, Hot N Gold, How Doo You Doo, Hugo George, Humble Ladd. Ideal Draw, Ideal Sports Girl, Ideologist, I’m Jimmy James, In Chevron We Trust, In Flanders Fields, Inherent Royal, In The Spotlight, Ira Poole, Isaac H, Isitwrongtobexcited, Isla’s Joy, Italian Lad, Itsmeantobe, Itz Flash Harriet, I Want It All. Jacks N Jazz, Jaffa Josh, Jawbreaker, Jay Tee Tyron, Jazzy Star, Jemma, Jimmy The Irishman, Jodi, Johnson Step, Jolene Jolene, Joshua Dylan, Jumpingjackmac, Justamollyarcher, Just As Well. Kase, Keegan Banner, Kensington Bill, Khaki Nui, King City, Kingmaker, King Of Trumps, Kiwi Jewel, Kiwis Are Flying, Krug, Kusadasi, Kuyomi La Bella Vita, Lady Ida, Lady Jayne, Lady Loins, Lagertha, La La Land, Lalibela, Lapize, Larry Lincoln, Last Place Lucy, Latina Hall, Lavazza, Lawrence, Leaf Stride, Leer, Leithen Burn, Lennox Bromac, Letherhairdown, Lets Hustle, Lightning Lana, Lillie May, Lils Nightmare, Linebacker, Lislady, L L Cool J, Loch Ness Franco, Longueval, Lotamuscle, Lottie Moon, Louie The Horse, Louis Litt, Louthario, Love A Dance, Luke John. Mach Little Soaky, Mach Shard, Machs Mareta, Madeakillin, Maestoso, Maggie, Magic Mike, Magicol Ideal, Majestic Hurricane, Majestic Man, Majorca, Major Meister, Major Watson, Man Of Action, Marianna Bromac, Marie Long, Master Stride, Matau Jess, Mazikeen, Melton Beach, Memphis In May, Mexicana, Mia Ragazza, Midnight Assassin, Mighty Flying Art, Mighty Looee, Military Man, Millie Francis, Millwood Jesse, Millwood Manhattan, Mini Me, Minstrel, Miss Mucho, Miss Serenade, Miss Taken, Missucci, Money Honey, Mongolian Cavalry, Mongolian Conqueror, Montana Glory, Montana Jet, Montana Storm, Montefiore, Morningstar Gold, Mr Bohannon, Mr Clooney, Mr Fantastic, Mufasa. Natty Pagger, Nearis Green, Needamargarita, Nerano, Nikita, Nina Simone, Noble Lavros, No Nukes Skipper, Noosa Beach, Nota Bene Denario. Oaxacan Dream, Ohoka Chopper, Old Luke, Olivia Rachel, Once Bitten, Onedin Punter, One Majic Kenny, One Over Da Son, Onesmartfella, On The Buzzer, Ontherocks, Our Spitfire. Paramount Princess, Patriot Stride, Pats Dragon, Payment Plan, Pembrook Charlie, Perfect Cut, Petrea Bromac, Plutonium, Pocket Book, Pocket The Change, Polka Dot Dance, Posh Fella, Potro, Prairie, Pretty Majestic, Prince Of Pleasure, Princess Tiffany, Prodigal Guinness, Punt Away Queen Elida, Queenofdance, Queen Of Strathfield, Quick As Fire, Quick Step. Racketeers Boy, Ragazzo Mach, Rakasharp, Reachforthetill, Reckon Im Smart, Red Castleton, Red Envy, Red Reactor, Regal Aspirant, Revitalise, Richard The Third, Richmond Tiger, Riley Moment, Ringo’s A Star, Riteur, Rocket Boy, Rocknroll King, Rocknroll Max, Rock N Roll Waltz, Roll The Dice, Roll With Eunice, Roma Rosa, Royal Essence, Ruby Baby, Russley Rush. Sagano, Saint Tropez, Sandy’s Ideal, Scott Real Speed, Seamark, See Ya Write, Sekkie Monkey, Sense Of Occasion, Set Me Free, Shadow Minister, Shanhill, Shanlou, Sheffield Sparky, Silent Rapture, Silver Surfer, Simply Shaz, Sir Lincoln, Skippys Delight, Skye Mary Mac, Skyzrclearnsunny, Smoken Shazza, Smooth Deal, Social Media, Souffle, Soundslikeart, Southern Belle, Spankem, Spellbound, Spikey Boy, Spirited Belle, Spirit Of Anzac, Spirit Of St Louis, Sportingjoy, Sport Mental, Square Dealer, Stamford, Star Galleria, Starlight Stride, Starlito, Star Of Timpany, Star Ruler, Stars N Bars, Starvin Marvin, Star Watch, Stavros The Terror, Stealth Bomba, Stick Man, Stinger Lindenny, Stratofortress, Stun Gun, Stylish Memphis, Styx Kiwi, Sugarinspice, Summer Pants, Sunny Petite, Surfers Delight, Sweet American, Sweet Chariot, Sweet Heaven, Sweet Jesse, Sweet On You, Swiss Miss. Tact Fergie, Tailored Elegance, Takemetothebeach, Take My Wallet, Tango Tara, Targaryen, Tartan Robyn, Tears Of Joy, Tell Me This, Tenzing Bromac, Terror The Christian, Terrortorial, Texas Red, Texas Tara, Texas Tiger, The Banker, The Batmobile, The Croupier, The General, The Hustler, The Kapiti Express, The Kingsman, The Paua Diver, The Vicars Daughter, The Whizard, The Whiz Kid, This Is Bettor, Three Rivers, Thug Rose, Thumbs Up, Ticktockpocketwatch, Toby O’Gara, Tommy Lincoln, Toro Stride, Touche, Tough Monarch, Town Echo, Treasure Me, Tricky Ric, Triple Eight, Triple VC, Trix Of Time, Tuxedo Bromac. Ultimate Machete, Ultimate Rocker, Ultimate Sniper, Ultimate Stride, Ultimate Temptation, Under Wraps, Unfinished Business, Urus. Valley Star, Verstappen, Vespa, Vincent Van Gone, Vindicate, Virginia Cool, Vulcan Star. Wainui Creek, Wat A Feeling, Wattlebank Lass, What’s Your Secret, Whatwillbeewillbee, Whisky Neat, White Lightning, Whole Lotta Rosie, Who’s My Mother, Wildestdreams, Windsor, With Revenge, Woodlands Rose, Would You Mind, Write About Angus. Xebec. Yahoo, Yellowstone, Yorkshire, Young Conqueror, You Really Got Me, You’re So Fine. Zaccy Mac, Zambia, Zeus Dan. Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed. Canada Bettor’s Delight, The Bandit Queen United States A Delightful Act, Ashley Locaz, Belmont Major, Bettor’s Heart, Beyond Words, Burlington, Captain Crunch, Delightful Catherine, Downbytheseaside, He’s Gratis, Im A Gigolo, Itz Alldown To Luck, J Bee, Kickupyaheels, Let’s Fly Together, Mossdale Lottee, Nandolo, Nevada, Nui Ba Den, On The Cards, Rydgemont Son, Sheriff, Sweet Lou, Tyron’s Bit Of Lemon, Underthesouthernsun, Watch Me Now, What The Hill. Top effort Brodster. 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Brodie Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 2 hours ago, Rangatira said: Top effort Brodster. Ranga, as you are well aware, “The Brodster” is always on the money and now Chief has posted an article that is on the money. Ray Green has stated previously that the state of harness racing is in the shite! We get this stuff from a few that says that harness is in a good position with TAB turnover and stake money lol. It is BS and things need to be turned around quickly or it ks a downward spiral! With the cost of living increasing for many they just aint going to be racing horses with the cost and poor returns. The NZ TAB turn away many punters by not accepting what the punter wants and that is extremely detrimental to turnover!! Even tonight Matt Peden the Bookmaker that is on Trackside reckons bets of $100 on a horse as being worth mentioning!!!! Seriously, they need to look at their business model as it is only being held together by Sports Betting! Who knows the Greyhound Racing may well be on its last legs if the lovely Chloe Swarbrick and her looney Greenies have their way! Hopefully The Tubster puts her in her place, but wouldnt take evens on that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrotsisback Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 On 8/6/2021 at 11:08 AM, Chief Stipe said: Ray Green, pictured with Copy That, has plenty of concerns over the future with a dwindling horse population. Back to reality for Ray and Copy That - a dire situation where the mane drain is critical By Barry Lichter • 27 July 2021 Earnings on the trip Copy That A$130,455 American Dealer $A98,458 Tommy Lincoln A$24,223 The spectacular success enjoyed by Lincoln Farms’ trainer Ray Green at Queensland’s winter carnival has only served to highlight that urgent changes are needed back home. Green rounded out a lucrative month in Brisbane at Albion Park on Saturday night when American Dealer won the A$102,000 Queensland Derby, Tommy Lincoln won a A$20,000 support race and Copy That finished fourth in the A$250,000 Blacks A Fake Queensland Championship. With eight wins, the trio took their combined bankroll to A$253,256 in just a month in the state. But Green now faces the difficult task of trying to prepare Copy That for Grand Circuit racing in an environment where poor handicapping is fuelling the drain of horses overseas, reducing the number of horses progressing to the higher grades to an alarming extent. So few cup class horses are now trained in the North Island that Green fears it will be difficult to get enough racing for Copy That. Few rating 80 and higher horses left in the country Add Copy That and Krug to the list above and that’s all the horses here rated at 80 or higher. Chase Auckland is now retired.Harness Racing New Zealand figures show only 25 horses are left in the country rated at 80 and above, 23 in the country and Copy That and Krug soon to return from Brisbane campaigns. Just nine of these are trained in the north, and only five are rating 90 and higher. Exports are exploding again, 536 and still counting this season.And the issue is getting worse with bloodstock agents reporting a big upswing in sales in the last two months, June exports reaching 63, the highest for 12 months. This season, with July to come, we’ve seen the biggest exodus of harness horses to Australia and North America in the last five years, already 536 gone. And while that number includes a few racehorses who have returned, as well as some shuttle stallions, the comparative totals are still indicative of a major problem that Green says is not being addressed. The number of foals branded has dropped alarmingly since 2010.The number of branded foals recorded by HRNZ has nearly halved from 2800 in 2010 to just 1522 in 2020, and that’s not the racing population but the total pool, many of which won’t even see a training barn. “New Zealand racing is in a dire situation and can’t sustain this,” says Green. “So many horses are being sold it’s leaving a huge hole in our population. We can’t continue like this or we’ll end up with four horse fields and then it’s game over. “I can understand why people sell their horses - because our handicapping system doesn’t allow them to win enough money and the imbeciles here won’t look at handicapping options.” The horses Lincoln Farms have sent to Queensland in recent years have taken advantage of a far superior system that doesn’t penalise horses so quickly, says Green, keeping them competitive for much longer. Lincoln Farms plans to leave Tommy Lincoln and Captain Nemo in Queensland to continue to reap those benefits. Tommy Lincoln, who was having to race the best in New Zealand despite being only a rating 79 horse, has had four starts in Queensland for three wins and still does not have to compete against the free-for-allers. “On this trip we’ve earned more than a quarter of a million dollars and that’s pretty good,” says Green. “How long would it take to win that money in Auckland? “If Copy That had stayed home he would have been lucky to have got one start in a month in some manufactured race, probably off a long mark. “I can see there being no open class racing in the North Island before Christmas. “There’s some serious stuff to be sorted out and, while I know there’s a meeting of minds going on at the moment, it could be too little, too late - the damage is done. Where are we going to get all the broodmares we need to bring up the racing population?” Green says the days of people sending their horses from Southland or Auckland to race in Canterbury are numbered - “why would they go there when they can fly to Australia and get so much more opportunity?” Green says there are a raft of Grand Circuit races on the agenda for Copy That but he hasn’t been able to make any plans yet as no dates have been finalised in a rescheduling of the New Zealand calendar. “Hopefully by the time we need to get going again with Copy That they’ll have made some decisions.” The horse is due to fly home on August 8 for a short break. Is your favourite among those lost? Haven’t seen your favourite racing for a while? Chances are it’s among the many hundreds who have been sold overseas this season. Horses exported between August 1, 2020 and July 23, 2021 (including some stallions and a few horses on short campaigns) were: Australia Abundance, Accelere, Admirable, Adverse Reaction, Akarana Prince, Aladdin, Aladdin Sane, Alexia Rose, Allonblack, All The Rage, Alluring Tyron, Alpine Retreat, Alta Cassino, Alta Hurrah, Alta Madeira, Alta Sensation, Altimeter, Amarillo Slim, Amazing Dream, American Dealer, American Flyer, American Made, American Shuffle, Anam Nunu, Annerie, Another Masterpiece, Aorangi, Apieceoflou, Aqua Sancta, Arco, Arden Messi, Arden Roanoke, Arden’s Ace, Arocknatthepark, Art Lover, Art’s Bettor Secret, Ascalabus, Avana. Bad To The Bone, Baileys Knight, Baker Creek, Ball Of Art, Bankers Gold, Barika, Barkley, Barnaby, Bart Maguire, Been To Jenny’s, Belmont Diva, Belmont Royale, Bertie Jones, Bettathanfast, Bettor Blast, Bettor Call Me, Bettor Get It On, Bettor Have Faith, Bionic Stride, B K Swy, Black Edition, Blazing Banner, Blitzembye, Blue Chip Delight, Bondi Shake, Boomchuckalucka, Booraa, Born To Boogie, Bosch, Brantley, Brian Christopher, Brydon Earl, Budvar Eyre, Bull Speed Ahead, Bumpy J, Bundoran, Burnham Boy. Call Me Keith, Canstar, Captain Dan, Captain Max, Captain Nemo, Captain Pins, Carlos Bromac, Carrera Serena, Cassius, Cassius Bromac, Celebration Stride, Charm Offensive, Chase The Gold, Chase The Hat Trick, Chasing Great, Check In, Cheddar Made Beta, Cheddar Valley, Cherokee Jack, Chevron Art, Chevron Flies, Chiller Bay, Chinski, Christmas Babe, Chubby Checker, Colin Bromac, Colorado Banner, Conspirator, Constitution, Coolhand Easton, Copy That, Corbell, Corker Moment, Cowboys N Bandits, Crackabrie, Croesus, Cuchulainn, Cyclone S Adams. Dadndave, Davey Mac, Dawson Shard, Deal With Me, Delightful Dude, Delightful GNP, Delightful Major, Demand Respect, Deneuve, Deus Ex, Diego, Distinguished Taste, Don Coyote, Dont Lie To Me, Don’t Tell Tom, Dornoch, Double Up, Doubtless Bay, Dreamers Delight, Duastar, Duke Of Dundee. Eagle Watch, Easy Pickings, Enhance Your Calm, Euro Beat, Ezana. Father Brian, Flame Lady, Flash Party, Fleetmaster, Flight Crew, Foregone Conclusion, Forever Bettor, Forget The Price Tag, Forsure, Fortunia, Franco Nandor, Franco Nathan, Franco Riot, Freddiesam, Funky Monkey, Fynn Frost. Gambit, Gattling, Gayle Force, General Montana, Gil Favor, Give Me A Minute, Glenis’s Mama, Glenledi Chief, Globe Trekker, Going For Gold, Gold Chain, Gold Medley, Goodealehmaddie, Go One Bettor, Gopati, Great Fantasy, Great Presence, Guido Da Siena. Handsome Harry, Hattie, Havehorsewilltravel, Hawthornden Hunk, Hayden Bromac, Held To Ransom, Hello Gorgeous, Hello It’s Me, Helluva, Hemsworth, He’s A Ladies Man, Hesallmuscle, Hey Sam, Hezacrocwatcher, Hidden Delight, Hittheroadjack, Home And Dry, Honour Stride, Horse Of Course, Hot N Gold, How Doo You Doo, Hugo George, Humble Ladd. Ideal Draw, Ideal Sports Girl, Ideologist, I’m Jimmy James, In Chevron We Trust, In Flanders Fields, Inherent Royal, In The Spotlight, Ira Poole, Isaac H, Isitwrongtobexcited, Isla’s Joy, Italian Lad, Itsmeantobe, Itz Flash Harriet, I Want It All. Jacks N Jazz, Jaffa Josh, Jawbreaker, Jay Tee Tyron, Jazzy Star, Jemma, Jimmy The Irishman, Jodi, Johnson Step, Jolene Jolene, Joshua Dylan, Jumpingjackmac, Justamollyarcher, Just As Well. Kase, Keegan Banner, Kensington Bill, Khaki Nui, King City, Kingmaker, King Of Trumps, Kiwi Jewel, Kiwis Are Flying, Krug, Kusadasi, Kuyomi La Bella Vita, Lady Ida, Lady Jayne, Lady Loins, Lagertha, La La Land, Lalibela, Lapize, Larry Lincoln, Last Place Lucy, Latina Hall, Lavazza, Lawrence, Leaf Stride, Leer, Leithen Burn, Lennox Bromac, Letherhairdown, Lets Hustle, Lightning Lana, Lillie May, Lils Nightmare, Linebacker, Lislady, L L Cool J, Loch Ness Franco, Longueval, Lotamuscle, Lottie Moon, Louie The Horse, Louis Litt, Louthario, Love A Dance, Luke John. Mach Little Soaky, Mach Shard, Machs Mareta, Madeakillin, Maestoso, Maggie, Magic Mike, Magicol Ideal, Majestic Hurricane, Majestic Man, Majorca, Major Meister, Major Watson, Man Of Action, Marianna Bromac, Marie Long, Master Stride, Matau Jess, Mazikeen, Melton Beach, Memphis In May, Mexicana, Mia Ragazza, Midnight Assassin, Mighty Flying Art, Mighty Looee, Military Man, Millie Francis, Millwood Jesse, Millwood Manhattan, Mini Me, Minstrel, Miss Mucho, Miss Serenade, Miss Taken, Missucci, Money Honey, Mongolian Cavalry, Mongolian Conqueror, Montana Glory, Montana Jet, Montana Storm, Montefiore, Morningstar Gold, Mr Bohannon, Mr Clooney, Mr Fantastic, Mufasa. Natty Pagger, Nearis Green, Needamargarita, Nerano, Nikita, Nina Simone, Noble Lavros, No Nukes Skipper, Noosa Beach, Nota Bene Denario. Oaxacan Dream, Ohoka Chopper, Old Luke, Olivia Rachel, Once Bitten, Onedin Punter, One Majic Kenny, One Over Da Son, Onesmartfella, On The Buzzer, Ontherocks, Our Spitfire. Paramount Princess, Patriot Stride, Pats Dragon, Payment Plan, Pembrook Charlie, Perfect Cut, Petrea Bromac, Plutonium, Pocket Book, Pocket The Change, Polka Dot Dance, Posh Fella, Potro, Prairie, Pretty Majestic, Prince Of Pleasure, Princess Tiffany, Prodigal Guinness, Punt Away Queen Elida, Queenofdance, Queen Of Strathfield, Quick As Fire, Quick Step. Racketeers Boy, Ragazzo Mach, Rakasharp, Reachforthetill, Reckon Im Smart, Red Castleton, Red Envy, Red Reactor, Regal Aspirant, Revitalise, Richard The Third, Richmond Tiger, Riley Moment, Ringo’s A Star, Riteur, Rocket Boy, Rocknroll King, Rocknroll Max, Rock N Roll Waltz, Roll The Dice, Roll With Eunice, Roma Rosa, Royal Essence, Ruby Baby, Russley Rush. Sagano, Saint Tropez, Sandy’s Ideal, Scott Real Speed, Seamark, See Ya Write, Sekkie Monkey, Sense Of Occasion, Set Me Free, Shadow Minister, Shanhill, Shanlou, Sheffield Sparky, Silent Rapture, Silver Surfer, Simply Shaz, Sir Lincoln, Skippys Delight, Skye Mary Mac, Skyzrclearnsunny, Smoken Shazza, Smooth Deal, Social Media, Souffle, Soundslikeart, Southern Belle, Spankem, Spellbound, Spikey Boy, Spirited Belle, Spirit Of Anzac, Spirit Of St Louis, Sportingjoy, Sport Mental, Square Dealer, Stamford, Star Galleria, Starlight Stride, Starlito, Star Of Timpany, Star Ruler, Stars N Bars, Starvin Marvin, Star Watch, Stavros The Terror, Stealth Bomba, Stick Man, Stinger Lindenny, Stratofortress, Stun Gun, Stylish Memphis, Styx Kiwi, Sugarinspice, Summer Pants, Sunny Petite, Surfers Delight, Sweet American, Sweet Chariot, Sweet Heaven, Sweet Jesse, Sweet On You, Swiss Miss. Tact Fergie, Tailored Elegance, Takemetothebeach, Take My Wallet, Tango Tara, Targaryen, Tartan Robyn, Tears Of Joy, Tell Me This, Tenzing Bromac, Terror The Christian, Terrortorial, Texas Red, Texas Tara, Texas Tiger, The Banker, The Batmobile, The Croupier, The General, The Hustler, The Kapiti Express, The Kingsman, The Paua Diver, The Vicars Daughter, The Whizard, The Whiz Kid, This Is Bettor, Three Rivers, Thug Rose, Thumbs Up, Ticktockpocketwatch, Toby O’Gara, Tommy Lincoln, Toro Stride, Touche, Tough Monarch, Town Echo, Treasure Me, Tricky Ric, Triple Eight, Triple VC, Trix Of Time, Tuxedo Bromac. Ultimate Machete, Ultimate Rocker, Ultimate Sniper, Ultimate Stride, Ultimate Temptation, Under Wraps, Unfinished Business, Urus. Valley Star, Verstappen, Vespa, Vincent Van Gone, Vindicate, Virginia Cool, Vulcan Star. Wainui Creek, Wat A Feeling, Wattlebank Lass, What’s Your Secret, Whatwillbeewillbee, Whisky Neat, White Lightning, Whole Lotta Rosie, Who’s My Mother, Wildestdreams, Windsor, With Revenge, Woodlands Rose, Would You Mind, Write About Angus. Xebec. Yahoo, Yellowstone, Yorkshire, Young Conqueror, You Really Got Me, You’re So Fine. Zaccy Mac, Zambia, Zeus Dan. Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed, Unnamed. Canada Bettor’s Delight, The Bandit Queen United States A Delightful Act, Ashley Locaz, Belmont Major, Bettor’s Heart, Beyond Words, Burlington, Captain Crunch, Delightful Catherine, Downbytheseaside, He’s Gratis, Im A Gigolo, Itz Alldown To Luck, J Bee, Kickupyaheels, Let’s Fly Together, Mossdale Lottee, Nandolo, Nevada, Nui Ba Den, On The Cards, Rydgemont Son, Sheriff, Sweet Lou, Tyron’s Bit Of Lemon, Underthesouthernsun, Watch Me Now, What The Hill. Oh yes this was the link I recommended sharing & then shared on another thread. Good idea Chief to share it properly so folk can read in full. There is also another good one too on Lincoln Farms page, about the handicapping system , interviews a couple of trainers & their thoughts about it. https://www.lincolnfarms.co.nz/stories/handicapping-changes-only-tinkering-some-major-holes-in-the-system-not-addressed/ I keep an eye on that page, the writer often comes up with interesting stories. And Green does crack me up to with his choice of lingo when he's interviewed from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 On 8/6/2021 at 1:24 PM, Chief Stipe said: Some simple solutions. CHANGE THE HANDICAPPING SYSTEM! Keep good sound geldings in racing! The same issue and same solution applies in Thoroughbred Racing. Although I vowed to not post any more the sheer stupidity of some people has irked me so much that I feel compelled to Following the story about Ray Green the "simple solution" is apparently to "change the Handicapping system" (again) Can you (Chief Stipe) please explain the following: 1. If you run 2000 races you have 2000 winners 2. If Trainer 1 has 3 horses, let's call them A, B & C that under the current handicapping system can't seem to win a race between them and you change the system so that they can, say, win 4 races per season each .... that's 12 race wins 3. Now there's still 2000 races so if A, B & C are now winning 12 more where are those wins coming from? Probably Trainer 2 with horses D, E & F 4. Now Trainer 1 who was unhappy is now happy, and Trainer 2 who was pretty happy is now unhappy. What has been achieved? Nothing, you have just rearranged the deck chairs on the Titanic The story also focussed on the real good horse Copy That. The story gave the numbers of Open Class horses about. I don't profess to know all the answers but if you want to create races for Copy That then that means at the moment you want other Trainers to provide cannon fodder. Isn't that a reason their Owners sell? Just saying 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrotsisback Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 35 minutes ago, Michael said: Although I vowed to not post any more the sheer stupidity of some people has irked me so much that I feel compelled to Following the story about Ray Green the "simple solution" is apparently to "change the Handicapping system" (again) Can you (Chief Stipe) please explain the following: 1. If you run 2000 races you have 2000 winners 2. If Trainer 1 has 3 horses, let's call them A, B & C that under the current handicapping system can't seem to win a race between them and you change the system so that they can, say, win 4 races per season each .... that's 12 race wins 3. Now there's still 2000 races so if A, B & C are now winning 12 more where are those wins coming from? Probably Trainer 2 with horses D, E & F 4. Now Trainer 1 who was unhappy is now happy, and Trainer 2 who was pretty happy is now unhappy. What has been achieved? Nothing, you have just rearranged the deck chairs on the Titanic The story also focussed on the real good horse Copy That. The story gave the numbers of Open Class horses about. I don't profess to know all the answers but if you want to create races for Copy That then that means at the moment you want other Trainers to provide cannon fodder. Isn't that a reason their Owners sell? Just saying Welcome back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Michael said: but if you want to create races for Copy That then that means at the moment you want other Trainers to provide cannon fodder. Copy That and Amazing Dream , Self Assured , any horse good enough for NZ Cup or Auckland Cup just have to be set for the Top class races in NZ and Aus. they can pay their way easily. The problem lies in the need for 'Everyday pacer and trotter' having races available to race in all year round , to pay their way. Only 15% of horses that actually get to the races return a profit. (There's a large number of Gallopers and standardbreds that don't even get to have one start either). People race them for the fun and love of the game, rather than to actually make money. The handicapping system needs to PROVIDE races that are winnable for all horses looking for a race start. Last Tuesday a friend of mine had a win with his horse , an 11 year old kiwi bred Lancelot Bromac having his 425th race start .!!! . He has been able to get a start week-in week-out for years in a class where can be competive, He's not fast enough for Saturday nights metro racing but , pays his way midweek racing. still. You need handicapping that allows horses like this to go round every week. or they will be sold off as happens now in NZ. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 There is not enough races for tight class horses nowadays as so many horses just get sold overseas. The reason is that there is not enough money to make it likely for the owner to breakeven with the level of stake money nowadays. The Group Races are plundered by the one stable and since this has occurred harness racing has declined. The stake money needs to be increased or owners will continue to decline, and there are buggerall new owners coming thru a d why would there be? The TAB needs to wake up to what they are doing to the punter by turning them away and therefore reducing its profit and stake money availability. They say that it is to be increased this hear but by how much and no way can the amount available to Auckland continue! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 19 hours ago, Michael said: Although I vowed to not post any more the sheer stupidity of some people has irked me so much that I feel compelled to Following the story about Ray Green the "simple solution" is apparently to "change the Handicapping system" (again) Can you (Chief Stipe) please explain the following: 1. If you run 2000 races you have 2000 winners 2. If Trainer 1 has 3 horses, let's call them A, B & C that under the current handicapping system can't seem to win a race between them and you change the system so that they can, say, win 4 races per season each .... that's 12 race wins 3. Now there's still 2000 races so if A, B & C are now winning 12 more where are those wins coming from? Probably Trainer 2 with horses D, E & F 4. Now Trainer 1 who was unhappy is now happy, and Trainer 2 who was pretty happy is now unhappy. What has been achieved? Nothing, you have just rearranged the deck chairs on the Titanic The story also focussed on the real good horse Copy That. The story gave the numbers of Open Class horses about. I don't profess to know all the answers but if you want to create races for Copy That then that means at the moment you want other Trainers to provide cannon fodder. Isn't that a reason their Owners sell? Just saying You are purely looking at it from a training perspective but not including the dimension of attracting more punting revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 18 hours ago, Gammalite said: Last Tuesday a friend of mine had a win with his horse , an 11 year old kiwi bred Lancelot Bromac having his 425th race start .!!! . He has been able to get a start week-in week-out for years in a class where can be competive, He's not fast enough for Saturday nights metro racing but , pays his way midweek racing. still. Plus the horse still provides punting revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 8 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: You are purely looking at it from a training perspective but not including the dimension of attracting more punting revenue. The story that you based your comment on was from an Owner’s and Trainer’s perspective The story was about horses paying their way Perhaps when you have no answer it would be better to say that instead of trying to be obtuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 15 hours ago, Brodie said: There is not enough races for tight class horses nowadays as so many horses just get sold overseas. The reason is that there is not enough money to make it likely for the owner to breakeven with the level of stake money nowadays. The Group Races are plundered by the one stable and since this has occurred harness racing has declined. The stake money needs to be increased or owners will continue to decline, and there are buggerall new owners coming thru a d why would there be? The TAB needs to wake up to what they are doing to the punter by turning them away and therefore reducing its profit and stake money availability. They say that it is to be increased this hear but by how much and no way can the amount available to Auckland continue! Should be right up your alley with less tight class races. A) You think group racing is boring as the same old trainers win every time. B) Premier harness racing is not a good investment. Now you are complaining there is not enough of them! Until breeding numbers are on the way up harness racing will stagnate or decline. Maybe you should breed a couple and help the industry grow again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 23 minutes ago, Mikie said: The story that you based your comment on was from an Owner’s and Trainer’s perspective The story was about horses paying their way Horse's pay their way through opportunity to earn stakes. The system favours the top line horse that performs well (without handicap) in the age group races and gets through to the top class quickly. The average or slightly above average horse finds its mark too quickly and has no opportunities and is retired or exported hence the "Mane Drain" which was the subject of the article. Take some of the cream off the top of the Group and Listed racing and redistribute to lower grades and have those horses that struggle in the elite but are competitive in a lower grade provide even racing and good punting opportunities. Now if you did that your 2,000 races could become 2,200 races or more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Horse's pay their way through opportunity to earn stakes. The system favours the top line horse that performs well (without handicap) in the age group races and gets through to the top class quickly. The average or slightly above average horse finds its mark too quickly and has no opportunities and is retired or exported hence the "Mane Drain" which was the subject of the article. Take some of the cream off the top of the Group and Listed racing and redistribute to lower grades and have those horses that struggle in the elite but are competitive in a lower grade provide even racing and good punting opportunities. Now if you did that your 2,000 races could become 2,200 races or more. Now we are getting somewhere Are you now saying that your "Change the Handicapping System" post isn't the answer, or isn't the only answer? It would appear so, as you are now suggesting that (a) a different distribution of stakes and (b) more races are answers No doubt you will offer yet another post saying that your first post isn't what you meant but it was pretty clear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 54 minutes ago, Michael said: Now we are getting somewhere Are you now saying that your "Change the Handicapping System" post isn't the answer, or isn't the only answer? It would appear so, as you are now suggesting that (a) a different distribution of stakes and (b) more races are answers No doubt you will offer yet another post saying that your first post isn't what you meant but it was pretty clear Well what is your answer? Given your hypothetical mathematical scenario doesn't make a lot of sense nor offer any solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Michael said: It would appear so, as you are now suggesting that (a) a different distribution of stakes and (b) more races are answers More races and larger field sizes) are only possible if you stop the Mane Drain. To do that you need to provide incentives for people to keep racing horses that quickly become uncompetitive due to handicapping. Your solutions are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Well what is your answer? Given your hypothetical mathematical scenario doesn't make a lot of sense nor offer any solutions. You see, herein lies your problem I never said that I had the answers (although I do favour the redistribution of Stakes) I merely said your simple answer wasn't a solution That's all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 9, 2021 Author Share Posted August 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Michael said: You see, herein lies your problem I never said that I had the answers (although I do favour the redistribution of Stakes) I merely said your simple answer wasn't a solution That's all Sorry to hear you think I have a problem. I know the industry has a few! I'm also sorry to hear that someone with your experience in the industry has no solutions/answers. From my experience the simple solutions are the best and I stand by my statement that the handicapping system does not favour the retention of a decent number of potential revenue earning horses. I'm sure @Brodie and any number of punters would rather bet on a race that had a full field of evenly matched runners than the top end races which are normally dominated by a handful of horses each season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 15 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Sorry to hear you think I have a problem. I know the industry has a few! I'm also sorry to hear that someone with your experience in the industry has no solutions/answers. From my experience the simple solutions are the best and I stand by my statement that the handicapping system does not favour the retention of a decent number of potential revenue earning horses. I'm sure @Brodie and any number of punters would rather bet on a race that had a full field of evenly matched runners than the top end races which are normally dominated by a handful of horses each season. There is other problems at the moment apart from the NZ TAB not wanting to take wagers from punters even though they put up fixed odds to wager on!! Originally thought that it was going to be good having more racing at Addington due to the fairness of the track! However, There is now the issue of field no.s dropping off and very few horses having odds that do not reflect the risk! Same horses racing each and every week and 5 horses paying under evens for a place is just an absolute waste of time. I am sure many are getting the stitch and not bothering especially on a Sunday arvo!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Nowornever said: Should be right up your alley with less tight class races. A) You think group racing is boring as the same old trainers win every time. B) Premier harness racing is not a good investment. Now you are complaining there is not enough of them! Until breeding numbers are on the way up harness racing will stagnate or decline. Maybe you should breed a couple and help the industry grow again! Correct I do not like the tight class racing but we do need them so that owners that have horses that win a few do actually have an opportunity to race their horses. No point me breeding a few at all, I will leave it to enthusiasts that are into that still. I have bred a few over the years but it is a very unprofitable exercise unless you have a top of the line mare and not that much in it then anyway. There are far more profitable and easier ways to make money nowadays without any risk! Edited August 9, 2021 by Brodie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrotsisback Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) Im not overly wanting to get involved in this debate. Due to the sentence in bold. So this is all Ill input on the matter. Some things Iv read or watched videos on in the past 1-2 months ish. Are below … * Hasn’t there been a stake increase announced? Would this not go out to clubs to distribute … ? * Hasn’t there been an announcement of handicapping changes. Perhaps more might follow … ? * Aren’t they having those working focus groups involving clubs/trainers/owners/breeders all brainstorming & coming up with real hard hitting solutions. e.g. all open class racing will be done in 1 region then it moves to next region (North/South/Deep South). And all trainers with horses that grade are being highly encouraged to play the game so it works. Unhinged was sitting at a table I saw guess representing owners. Maybe he has some inside info. (Altho in saying that he may not be able to share atm). Curious prob like most to see what these changes are. Hopefully they are announced soon. Now that you are back M, no saying you will play the selections game, then dart off & not return til its over lol. Edited August 9, 2021 by Karrotsisback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 17 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Sorry to hear you think I have a problem. I know the industry has a few! I'm also sorry to hear that someone with your experience in the industry has no solutions/answers. From my experience the simple solutions are the best and I stand by my statement that the handicapping system does not favour the retention of a decent number of potential revenue earning horses. I'm sure @Brodie and any number of punters would rather bet on a race that had a full field of evenly matched runners than the top end races which are normally dominated by a handful of horses each season. You are having trouble with comprehension Chief I pointed out to you that I never said I had all the answers, and that my post was simply pointing out that your solution would do nothing That's not the same as having no answers I also fail to see how my "scenario" doesn't make sense. It's quite simple. If you alter the system so that one horse can win another 2 rtaces then surely there's 1 other horse that can't win 2 (or 2 that can't win 1 each) What doesn't make sense to you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 9, 2021 Author Share Posted August 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Michael said: I also fail to see how my "scenario" doesn't make sense. It's quite simple. If you alter the system so that one horse can win another 2 rtaces then surely there's 1 other horse that can't win 2 (or 2 that can't win 1 each) It is clearly apparent why racing in general is in trouble when ex-racing administrators such as yourself don't seem able to think outside a small square box. Your simplistic scenario is based on a fixed number of races AND a fixed number of horses. The reality is neither number is fixed. If you want to increase harness wagering revenue then you need to increase the amount of product i.e. the number of races AND the number of horses. Do you understand that? Now using your simplistic approach: If there are 120 horses available to race each week then that's 10 x 12 horse fields. Still with me? Now if 12 horses (10%) are forced to retire because they reach a mark that they can't earn a stake from then there are only 9 x 12 horse fields. Now assuming that each of the original 10 races earnt the same amount of wagering revenue if you subtract one race then your revenue drops by 10%. Still with me? Eventually the horse that you refer to winning 2 races and therefore limiting someone else from winning will find that not only have they reached their own mark quicker but that there is less revenue and less races to compete in!! Don't forget that a field of 12 Aveross Spitfire's will still earn revenue for harness and at a profit by comparison to the Group races. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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