Racing Today 1 September 2021 - 2 NZ and 5 OZ meetings.

[Freda]

12 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Well we are a week and a half away from the $220k Grp one at Hastings.  So there must be revenue coming from somewhere.

$600k up for grabs on that day including a $40k maiden.

Yeah.   Pokies, sportsbetting, overseas racing, the PoC tax [ i.e. the punter ] the gaming duty forgiven [ the taxpayer] ; and the long-suffering owners of horses obliged to race for 10k.

[Freda]

11 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Have you thought about applying for an admin position in NZ racing?  You seem to have all the current selection criteria!!

Another question - if the $40k maiden had been $20k instead would the field of maidens being any weaker?  Would it change the punting proposition?  Would it be more likely to pay its way?

Subjectively - I would be delighted to win a 40k maiden for my owners.     But, a maiden is a maiden, can't see any justification whatsoever for the stakes differential.

And, it has been said before, many times...if stakes were paid on the basis of revenue earned, we would be racing for 2k...  or thereabouts.  Or  Willy Wightman's bag of kumaras.

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

Yeah.   Pokies, sportsbetting, overseas racing, the PoC tax [ i.e. the punter ] the gaming duty forgiven [ the taxpayer] ; and the long-suffering owners of horses obliged to race for 10k.

Come on Freda , positivity , positivity please , 12k mdns .

Your not helping the cause sounding so glum this fine spring day .

[Chief Stipe]

10 hours ago, nomates said:

AH ! no , i believe Te Akau have just gone to $90 per day + GST , not a lot cheaper than some of the big Aus stables .

Te Akau break even - just.

Any profit comes from Stakes winnings and the selling of their top fillies or the very rare sale and syndication of a top colt.

[nomates]

13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Te Akau break even - just.

Any profit comes from Stakes winnings and the selling of their top fillies or the very rare sale and syndication of a top colt.

I would think they are doing quite well across the board , they pretty much clip the ticket on everything , every purchase has a 10k fee for due diligence , $45+GST a day spelling . I know from talking a friend who raced horses with them that they don't miss much , so i think they are doing alright .

But if you want to have a chance of winning a millions they are the go to stable , buy the nicest horses , have the best jocks and a young tyro trainer that is up with the best .

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, nomates said:

I would think they are doing quite well across the board , they pretty much clip the ticket on everything , every purchase has a 10k fee for due diligence , $45+GST a day spelling . I know from talking a friend who raced horses with them that they don't miss much , so i think they are doing alright .

The costs of their operation is much higher than other stables driven by their diligence to detail.  They also have a comparatively high staff to horse ratio and many of those staff are highly skilled.  All reasons that lead to continued success.

But I've been told that the training operation breaks even.

[Freda]

1 hour ago, nomates said:

I would think they are doing quite well across the board , they pretty much clip the ticket on everything , every purchase has a 10k fee for due diligence , $45+GST a day spelling . I know from talking a friend who raced horses with them that they don't miss much , so i think they are doing alright .

But if you want to have a chance of winning a millions they are the go to stable , buy the nicest horses , have the best jocks and a young tyro trainer that is up with the best .

Absolutely. 

No problem at all with their charges,  the operation is top class, every attention to detail given.

The trouble is, trying to compete  with inferior horses, inadequate staff ( because the top bracket wages are unaffordable for many) and the high profile riders often look down their noses at smaller trainers,  won't ride their horses, or worse- ride them badly and couldn't give a toss.

[Chief Stipe]

29 minutes ago, Freda said:

the high profile riders often look down their noses at smaller trainers,  won't ride their horses, or worse- ride them badly and couldn't give a toss.

In my experience most top jockey's that have ridden my horses have been pretty good and didn't treat us any different.  Although I was surprised by a couple who in my opinion their success was more a factor of the horses they rode rather than their horsemanship.  Michael Walker and Mark DuPlessis spring to mind.  Oddly I found the best were those that didn't communicate that well although Hayden Tinsley and James MacDonald were an exception to that rule.

But finding riders full stop is the biggest problem for the South Island aside from the premier track being in desperate need of maintenance.

[curious]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

But finding riders full stop is the biggest problem for the South Island aside from the premier track being in desperate need of maintenance.

Cup meeting not far away but I still have not seen nor heard anything from the CJC and/or NZTR about plans for fixing what once was one of the better tracks in the world.

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, curious said:

Cup meeting not far away but I still have not seen nor heard anything from the CJC and/or NZTR about plans for fixing what once was one of the better tracks in the world.

According to the South Island's leading trainer @Pitman you don't need to do anything except not irrigate it.  Talking to one of the Jockey's who rode in the recent Steeplechase races they barely dodged a bullet following that policy with the Steeplechase course.

[Huey]

21 hours ago, nomates said:

They are looking a bit on the skinny side .

R4 Cambridge $10k in Win Pool, $6k in place pool , you'd hope there was  lot of Fixed odds betting going on?

[nomates]

10 minutes ago, Huey said:

R4 Cambridge $10k in Win Pool, $6k in place pool , you'd hope there was  lot of Fixed odds betting going on?

Have kept an eye on them again today and yes pretty skinny again , i wonder if part of the problem is a lot of people don't have phone accts and if they do don't have credit cards to top up . I have noticed a large portion of money going on late but still lower pools than the norm .

[aquaman]

They are lacking all the physical outlets as all closed throughout the country. So there goes a large portion of churn there. My guess is 25% of turnover would be at TABs and pub tabs. Then again I could be entirely wrong.

[Freda]

49 minutes ago, curious said:

Cup meeting not far away but I still have not seen nor heard anything from the CJC and/or NZTR about plans for fixing what once was one of the better tracks in the world.

You are not likely to either.

The opinion from on high is that here is nothing wrong with it.

I feel for the track staff who surely know otherwise, but don't have the means at their disposal to do anything other than basic maintenance and patching.

[nomates]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

But I've been told that the training operation breaks even.

There's no way they are only breaking even , that training charge only has to cover feed and staff wages , everything else is charged out , stables , vet , farrier , xport , you name it owner pays for it . So if they have 100 in work and even if only 1 in 10 horses is all profit that's 10 x $2700 per month , $27k , x 12 months = 320k .

All that before you add the farm profits .

They are doing fine thankyou .

[Chief Stipe]

19 minutes ago, nomates said:

All that before you add the farm profits .

Why include the farm profits in with the horse training business?

20 minutes ago, nomates said:

There's no way they are only breaking even , that training charge only has to cover feed and staff wages , everything else is charged out , stables , vet , farrier , xport , you name it owner pays for it . So if they have 100 in work and even if only 1 in 10 horses is all profit that's 10 x $2700 per month , $27k , x 12 months = 320k .

How many staff employed?

I assure you there is unlikely to be any trainer in NZ that is making a profit out of training fees let alone Te Akau.

[Chief Stipe]

37 minutes ago, aquaman said:

They are lacking all the physical outlets as all closed throughout the country. So there goes a large portion of churn there. My guess is 25% of turnover would be at TABs and pub tabs. Then again I could be entirely wrong.

They exceeded expectations during the last lockdowns.

[curious]

41 minutes ago, nomates said:

There's no way they are only breaking even , that training charge only has to cover feed and staff wages , everything else is charged out , stables , vet , farrier , xport , you name it owner pays for it . So if they have 100 in work and even if only 1 in 10 horses is all profit that's 10 x $2700 per month , $27k , x 12 months = 320k .

All that before you add the farm profits .

They are doing fine thankyou .

I don't see how they could be more than paying their way at those rates if staff etc. are being reasonably compensated.

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, curious said:

I don't see how they could be more than paying their way at those rates if staff etc. are being reasonably compensated.

My understanding is that they do look after their staff well.  I've had unprompted communication from some of them and their loyalty was clearly evident.  You don't get that from staff unless you treated them OK.

[nomates]

34 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why include the farm profits in with the horse training business?

57 minutes ago, nomates said:

Well TA is all encompassing , there wouldn't be many horses they train that don't go to the farm .

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, nomates said:

Well TA is all encompassing , there wouldn't be many horses they train that don't go to the farm .

I thought that you were referring to the livestock side of the business.

Where did you get the $45 a day for spelling?  Obviously it isn't just being thrown out in a paddock.

[nomates]

8 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

My understanding is that they do look after their staff well.  I've had unprompted communication from some of them and their loyalty was clearly evident.  You don't get that from staff unless you treated them OK.

I know they do , but what is well paid , for every 10 horses how many staff to maintain them , i.e. ground staff , riders . You have 27k to cover the feeding and wages of those 10 horses . 3k to feed the 10 for the month and that is generous , about $50 a day , leaves you with 24k to pay the staff for a month . 

How much are they getting paid , ??? , They have barn managers who will be on good wickets , $2k a week the managers , minions on $30 an hour , $1200 a week . I think the barns are 20 horses , so 48k for 1 barn for wages , 8k for manager , 5 other staff to maintain those 20 horses , All on $1200 a week so $4800 per month x 5 =24k , +8k for manager = 32k , still 16k spare , i'm sure there are other staffing costs but as i said even if they clear 1 in 10 horses that's $5400 for TA with still $10400 spare . Happy for you to tell me my costs are wrong or i have missed something .

All i'm saying with the size they work with they are making margins , not big margins but at their numbers they don't have to be , it all adds up .

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, nomates said:

All i'm saying with the size they work with they are making margins , not big margins but at their numbers they don't have to be , it all adds up .

Well for a start they have close to 70 staff (I'm not sure if that includes Singapore).  According to NZTR Richards has 164 horses in training.  That's 1 staff member for every 3 horses in work.

[nomates]

13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Where did you get the $45 a day for spelling?  Obviously it isn't just being thrown out in a paddock.

That is their spelling charge , if you can't make a turn at that price your gold plating the grass .

And i would think yes they are being put in paddocks , colts will have individual paddocks might be an acre each . They wont be boxing everything all the time , some might at times .

[Huey]

31 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

They exceeded expectations during the last lockdowns.

That's what I thought, the Aus pools are hard to get a line on (non comingled), just worrying a bit with the level of interest on the NZ product I'd have thought not much else on there might have been some serious interest in them.

R7 12k win pool, 8k place pool