South Island jockeys

[Freda]

Was going to comment about this, yes, damn right -  it is a great concept, but, as you say, sad [ and typical ] that is has to be undertaken by a private enterprise.

Donovan Mansour is the guy you are thinking of.

Something similar is proposed at Ross Beckett's property,  he has his own track and good facilities, and he is pointing Terry Moseley towards doing something with the concept as he nears retirement.

But the reams of irrelevant paperwork required by a potential track rider is off-putting in the extreme and no-one seems to have a handle on just what is required and when it might happen.

To quote Pitty   'they have taken the power away from the bosses [ trainers] and replaced it with nothing.'     Years ago, the boss was just that, a former jockey usually, who knew racing inside out.   Those guys weren't all great communicators or tutors though, and it can be seen how some improvement was needed.  Often the kids were just cheap labour and had no show of ever making a career of race-riding.

The jockey schools of Ireland,  UK, and Sth Africa are a great concept and again, we just keep dropping the ball.

[nomates]

51 minutes ago, Freda said:

Often the kids were just cheap labour and had no show of ever making a career of race-riding.

This is the part that has come back to bite the industry on the arse , not only cheap labour but treating employees like shite , means we struggle to get young people into the industry after they have heard the stories from older family and friends .

[Gospel of Judas]

44 minutes ago, nomates said:

This is the part that has come back to bite the industry on the arse , not only cheap labour but treating employees like shite , means we struggle to get young people into the industry after they have heard the stories from older family and friends .

One main reasons never went into Racing career. Kind when to tall and wrong build, not got much hope. Other main reasons was piss poor wages, shit employers and dealing with  dickhead central. Took one look and went nope, got better uses of my time, in other areas of the workforce.

Complaint here from many younger ones after while, get on plane go to Aussie get paid better, have better opportunities and deal less with be screwed re pay.

[Huey]

15 minutes ago, Gospel of Judas said:

 

Complaint here from many younger ones after while, get on plane go to Aussie get paid better, have better opportunities and deal less with be screwed re pay.

Thas no different than a horse jumping on the plane to go to Aus for better working conditions, NZ will never compete.

[nomates]

15 minutes ago, Gospel of Judas said:

One main reasons never went into Racing career. Kind when to tall and wrong build, not got much hope. Other main reasons was piss poor wages, shit employers and dealing with  dickhead central. Took one look and went nope, got better uses of my time, in other areas of the workforce.

Complaint here from many younger ones after while, get on plane go to Aussie get paid better, have better opportunities and deal less with be screwed re pay.

Well size should never stop anyone getting into the industry , racing , breeding or admin . Never stopped me and i'm just short of 6'4" and was usually around 100kg .

The single biggest issue i found was the shite employers , especially in racing , laws unto themselves , but as i said it has come back to bite the industry . 

[nomates]

4 minutes ago, Huey said:

Thas no different than a horse jumping on the plane to go to Aus for better working conditions, NZ will never compete.

NZ racing/studs have woken up to it finally , starting to respect their good staff and reward them properly , only problem is that the horse has bolted and going to take a long time to rein it in . NZTR have been so slow off the mark on this but also the trainers assn is the same , like i said waking up now .

[Gospel of Judas]

1 minute ago, nomates said:

Well size should never stop anyone getting into the industry , racing , breeding or admin . Never stopped me and i'm just short of 6'4" and was usually around 100kg .

The single biggest issue i found was the shite employers , especially in racing , laws unto themselves , but as i said it has come back to bite the industry . 

Yes I am 6.1 and around 105kg, wanted  at one stage be jockey, but never going to happen. Perhaps could done training or done Harness Racing.

Seen many, been ripped off by bad employers in Racing . Why feel made right choice not to enter industry. Considering done Employer Law recently, have field day against these types.

[Gospel of Judas]

3 minutes ago, nomates said:

NZ racing/studs have woken up to it finally , starting to respect their good staff and reward them properly , only problem is that the horse has bolted and going to take a long time to rein it in . NZTR have been so slow off the mark on this but also the trainers assn is the same , like i said waking up now .

Also applies to a few industries currently, started to wake up, because no one their they can ripe off currently. Had some HR lady recently trying offer me  job, use be bottom but have had to raise rates abit.

Even worse for University Graduates, offer you bottom with all these bullshit promises going to pay you more after 6 months and a year. Then never do and wonder why have so much staff turnover and people going mad at them.

[Gospel of Judas]

2 hours ago, Huey said:

Thas no different than a horse jumping on the plane to go to Aus for better working conditions, NZ will never compete.

Can compete, just got have better pay conditions for humans and better fairer stakes for bottom end of Racing stakes. You think, if one in ten horses don't pay for themselves in NZ. What is put of racing them here? If going get more costs back in Aussie. Why no point in stakes increase for top end. But big breeders and owners who all use line Winston pocket and line NZ First pocket think different. Just know captured the minds of people run NZ Racing. Look at NZTR board and Racing board. All full of those people.

[Huey]

40 minutes ago, Gospel of Judas said:

. Look at NZTR board and Racing board. All full of those people.

You summed it all up.

[Freda]

Years ago, when racing was run, well, better than now, the Racecourse D's used to go around trainers with apprentices, interview them, check out accommodation if on-site, and make sure the youngsters were paid correctly and had no complaints.  No doubt, there were plenty who were too scared to complain..but at least the intention was there.   Trainers also had to make sure that the lads  had a MINIMUM of 18 rides a year. Bugger all, but again, at least the intention was there.

As far as I am aware, there has always been a  minimum wage in NZ employment, but obviously, employers got around that somehow because, as NM has said, racing has a terrible rap with the wider public with employment matters.    Trainers, as a whole, back then, weren't as screwed financially as many are now, but staff still weren't well treated in many cases.

Now, no one seems to ensure conditions are met properly, so unless the youngster has a strong personality, or someone to stand up for them, nothing happens.

Economics now make it very hard indeed for many trainers to compete, wages-wise, with the wider labour market, there is just no meat on the bones left.   No wonder that the big, successful operations can snaffle good staff more easily....those that haven't already left our shores.

In the absence of keen young kiwis, no wonder we are left with a bunch of imports from other jurisdictions to try and make up the jockey numbers.   Many from Asia or Sth Africa, UK and Ireland.   

And it is fair to say [ with no intention to denigrate these riders, many of whom are my friends ]  if they were any bloody good at all, they wouldn't be here in the first place.

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

As far as I am aware, there has always been a  minimum wage in NZ employment, but obviously, employers got around that somehow because, as NM has said, racing has a terrible rap with the wider public with employment matters.    Trainers, as a whole, back then, weren't as screwed financially as many are now, but staff still weren't well treated in many cases.

 

They may have paid the minimum rate , but that was for the first 40 hours , the other 20+ hours went unpaid , that included weekend work and public holidays . I knew trainers that wouldn't pay extra on public holidays or give them the day in lieu .

A couple tried it on with me but got the short shrift , i would tell other staff their entitlements but most were young and as you say too scared to do anything and the bosses knew it .

But i was lucky , a mouthy mother that taught me to stand up for myself and my first job being in the salaries division of the Post Office , so i got to know all the in and outs of wages and salaries .

The staff that worked under the first paragraphs conditions , and there were heaps , are the ones who have gone on and told people the stories to family and friends and those connections are put off the industry .

[Gospel of Judas]

5 hours ago, nomates said:

They may have paid the minimum rate , but that was for the first 40 hours , the other 20+ hours went unpaid , that included weekend work and public holidays . I knew trainers that wouldn't pay extra on public holidays or give them the day in lieu .

A couple tried it on with me but got the short shrift , i would tell other staff their entitlements but most were young and as you say too scared to do anything and the bosses knew it .

But i was lucky , a mouthy mother that taught me to stand up for myself and my first job being in the salaries division of the Post Office , so i got to know all the in and outs of wages and salaries .

The staff that worked under the first paragraphs conditions , and there were heaps , are the ones who have gone on and told people the stories to family and friends and those connections are put off the industry .

Had a younger freind who a trainer would not pay him his Holiday Pay owing after he left. Making up all the excuses in the book etc and other bullshit. Got him in contact with local community law, magically got all paid back next week.

[nomates]

6 minutes ago, Gospel of Judas said:

Had a younger freind who a trainer would not pay him his Holiday Pay owing after he left. Making up all the excuses in the book etc and other bullshit. Got him in contact with local community law, magically got all paid back next week.

I actually got in touch with the labour dept and they said they could only investigate individual complaints , so they could only investigate an employer if someone complained for that individual and even if they found issues across the board they could only deal to the trainer for that individual case and give recommendations to them on how to improve their systems . So if a trainer had 10 disgruntled staff each individual had to put in a complaint and then they were each investigated separately . No wonder employers take the piss .

[Gospel of Judas]

1 minute ago, nomates said:

I actually got in touch with the labour dept and they said they could only investigate individual complaints , so they could only investigate an employer if someone complained for that individual and even if they found issues across the board they could only deal to the trainer for that individual case and give recommendations to them on how to improve their systems . So if a trainer had 10 disgruntled staff each individual had to put in a complaint and then they were each investigated separately . No wonder employers take the piss .

Cause they do all the time those types, why grave freinds his options and what could do. Trainer lucky did not go Labour inspector options. Always been known find more interesting things.

[nomates]

On 6/09/2021 at 3:40 PM, nomates said:

Kavish C just rode a great race on Miss Tycoon Rose , these guys can do it but for some reason they seem to just switch off too much .

Is Miss Tycoon Rose the best horse in the SI , should have won the 1000gns for mine .

Rinse and repeat this comment , another great ride on her today , and she is a super mare , the Couplands looks right up her alley .

[Freda]

she sure is..and, on the subject of jockeys,  isn't Kozzi having fun..?

[KickintheKods]

Well done Michael.

This is the best horse to come out of the SI for a long time.

Hopefully she stays in NZ before taking on the big time next season.

Interestingly I just got an email today from a major Melbourne stable offering shares in a horse that ran well here mid week, was vetted yesterday and sold yesterday afternoon and flys to Melbourne next Wednesday.

They love our bloodstock in OZ.

 

[Freda]

1 minute ago, KickintheKods said:

Well done Michael.

This is the best horse to come out of the SI for a long time.

Hopefully she stays in NZ before taking on the big time next season.

Interestingly I just got an email today from a major Melbourne stable offering shares in a horse that ran well here mid week, was vetted yesterday and sold yesterday afternoon and flys to Melbourne next Wednesday.

They love our bloodstock in OZ.

 

Are you in?

[KickintheKods]

Depends on how much the late quaddie pays in Melbourne today. 

 

[nomates]

I don't know why but geez S Wynne does my head in , doesn't seem too pro active during a race , and finds trouble easy . My head always drops when i see her on a horse i like .

[Freda]

2 hours ago, nomates said:

I don't know why but geez S Wynne does my head in , doesn't seem too pro active during a race , and finds trouble easy . My head always drops when i see her on a horse i like .

I love Sam as a person, she is just delightful,   but she isn't happy in amongst them.

She rides a lot of winners, but she has to be in the right place.  Otherwise she wants out.

 

[nomates]

13 minutes ago, Freda said:

I love Sam as a person, she is just delightful,   but she isn't happy in amongst them.

 

Not a great trait for a jockey .

 

14 minutes ago, Freda said:

She rides a lot of winners, but she has to be in the right place.  Otherwise she wants out.

 

Like many of our jocks now . If the horse can find it's own path they are happy to just hold the reins .

[Ludwig]

I am interested to see that Jason Laking was riding for Jamie Richards today...the old Wingatui connection.. it's good to see Jason getting good rides on some better horses. It's a good vote of confidence in him.

[Guest CrossCodes]

2 hours ago, Freda said:

I love Sam as a person, she is just delightful,   but she isn't happy in amongst them.

She rides a lot of winners, but she has to be in the right place.  Otherwise she wants out.

 

Agree 100%, she has not been the same for quite a while, not a very proactive rider at all and rarely puts her rides in the race and usually rides for luck, like most STH Island riders.

Seems no one wants to show any initiative down there at all, Kozzi showed today that you put your horses in the race you will more often than not be rewarded.