Finally a reason NOT to emigrate to Australia!

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, nomates said:

It's a big debate , this is one topic . But in my experience in life i have found a large portion of parents didn't/don't have enough information/education around contraception to make an informed decision around having sex which led to kids which led to the them not having had enough information/education to make an informed decision/s on how children are entitled/should be raised in a first world country , but many aren't .

My wife works with school children every day , hands on , some of the stuff she see's and hears is just heart breaking , that children in NZ in this day and age are living like some are just beggers belief .

Getting vaccinated for these kids is the least of their problems .

My apologies but can you succinctly state what your point is?

[nomates]

4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

My apologies but can you succinctly state what your point is?

You say parents don't have enough information to make an informed decision , but that happens through out life in all sort of situations .

Maybe you should just worry about your own family and let others do the same , we can't be everybody's keeper .

And a lot of the time people have all the information and still choose to do something we wouldn't , even when we had the same information .

Freedom of choice .

[Joe Bloggs]

And Boris, The born again fuckwit, has advocated 12 to 15yo can overturn their parents decision on vax.......= I'm 12 and want to be vaccinated so get f##ked Mum and Dad.......yea right......that'll work Boris.

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, nomates said:

You say parents don't have enough information to make an informed decision , but that happens through out life in all sort of situations .

Correct for their children aged under 16.  If they don't have enough information then it is impossible for a child aged between 12 and 16 to be informed enough to consent.  As for that happening "through out life in all sort of situations" can you give an equivalent example?

5 minutes ago, nomates said:

Maybe you should just worry about your own family and let others do the same , we can't be everybody's keeper .

There are many examples in history where that approach has led to disaster and there are many cases where disasters have been prevented by not following that approach.  I'm not proposing to be everybody's keeper what I am trying to achieve i for the reasons and the supporting information for the decisions made by NZ's Government and their advisors is transparent and open to everyone to make their OWN informed decisions.  As well as parents are still involved in making those choices for their children.

I would contend that if that information was available that many would agree with the UK advisory committee that the benefit of the vaccine does not outweigh the risks of Covid-19 for this particular age group.

11 minutes ago, nomates said:

And a lot of the time people have all the information and still choose to do something we wouldn't , even when we had the same information .

Freedom of choice .

It's not Freedom of Choice when you don't have that information and when the Government propaganda, processes and systems are corralling children into being vaccinated without informed consent.

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

And Boris, The born again fuckwit, has advocated 12 to 15yo can overturn their parents decision on vax.......= I'm 12 and want to be vaccinated so get f##ked Mum and Dad.......yea right......that'll work Boris.

That is what he is doing and it is exactly the approach being taken in NZ but with a great deal more stealth.  A 12 year old can book their own vaccination appointment and get vaccinated WITHOUT their parents consent or even knowledge.  What's more it is done without any Government or vaccine manufacturer liability.

[nomates]

You've won the bone .

[Joe Bloggs]

8 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

That is what he is doing and it is exactly the approach being taken in NZ but with a great deal more stealth.  A 12 year old can book their own vaccination appointment and get vaccinated WITHOUT their parents consent or even knowledge.  What's more it is done without any Government or vaccine manufacturer liability.

Oh Jesus shoot me......what has happened to the world.

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Oh Jesus shoot me......what has happened to the world.

It's happened before in history but never on such a global scale.  If anyone doesn't understand how the holocaust came about then they only have to look at how groupthink driven by irrational hysteria has taken hold in numerous countries around the world. 

[Gammalite]

31 minutes ago, nomates said:

And a lot of the time people have all the information and still choose to do something we wouldn't , even when we had the same information .

take whooping cough for example. A vaccination is given three times to infants in their first year. 

A Whooping cough epidemic breaks out every 3-4 years in Australia now as people Scared off from vaccines these days. (rate of immunisation dropped from 95% to 90% recent times) 

All ages can catch this contagious respiratory disease. It is Particularly Nasty. 1 in 100 babies die when they contract the disease . It is brutal. Doctors that treat these tiny victims say this >>>.>>>

"100% of those that didn't vaccinate, WISH they did , once they see their baby in the throngs of not being able to breathe , and the terror that goes with it"

[curious]

3 hours ago, Huey said:

They'll for sure do it here as well.

Can't I don't think. From the Human Rights Commission site and that's for an employer which NZTR aint of racing participants, but racing rules can't override other statutes including Human Rights Law:

Can my employer require me to have a vaccine?

New Zealand's primary workplace health and safety regulator, Worksafe, has produced a guide to assess whether a specific role needs to be performed by a vaccinated worker. The guidance states:

Businesses and services can’t require an individual to be vaccinated. However, you can require a specific role be performed by a vaccinated person - if you have done a health and safety risk assessment to support this.

[Chief Stipe]

30 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

take whooping cough for example. A vaccination is given three times to infants in their first year. 

A Whooping cough epidemic breaks out every 3-4 years in Australia now as people Scared off from vaccines these days. (rate of immunisation dropped from 95% to 90% recent times) 

All ages can catch this contagious respiratory disease. It is Particularly Nasty. 1 in 100 babies die when they contract the disease . It is brutal. Doctors that treat these tiny victims say this >>>.>>>

"100% of those that didn't vaccinate, WISH they did , once they see their baby in the throngs of not being able to breathe , and the terror that goes with it"

You are making the same mistake that many are making by labelling anyone who questions the Covid-19 vaccine as being anti-vax and anti all vaccines.  

Whooping Cough (Pertussis) clearly affects very young children and there is a proven vaccine with an efficacy of 85%.  However issues with the original vaccine and an increasing number of successful lawsuits led to vaccine production being dropped by manufacturers.  There was no money in it anymore.  This forced the US Government to step in and take over liability and compensate victims for injury.

The main manufacturer then developed a safer vaccine in 1981 in Japan which wasn't approved for use in the USA until 11 years later.

The key difference is that there has been insufficient time to accumulate enough data for Covid-19 (Pzifer has released less than 6 months of trial data March 2021 - none of which included any data for under 16's) to make any assumptions about the safety of any of the vaccines for children for a disease that has little to no effect on.  Much much less than influenza and certainly much much less than Whooping Cough.

The unquantified unknown benefit of the vaccine does NOT outweigh the risk of serious Covid-19 illness.  Sadly we are putting an unnecessary (in my opinion unethical) burden on children to protect older cohorts who are at risk.  The role of any parent in life is to protect their young NOT to use them as a human barrier to protect themselves.

[Chief Stipe]

33 minutes ago, curious said:

Can't I don't think. From the Human Rights Commission site and that's for an employer which NZTR aint of racing participants, but racing rules can't override other statutes including Human Rights Law:

Can my employer require me to have a vaccine?

New Zealand's primary workplace health and safety regulator, Worksafe, has produced a guide to assess whether a specific role needs to be performed by a vaccinated worker. The guidance states:

Businesses and services can’t require an individual to be vaccinated. However, you can require a specific role be performed by a vaccinated person - if you have done a health and safety risk assessment to support this.

But as I said in an earlier post isn't there the possibility that NZTR could legally make it a condition of licensing?  However they would then have to detail what they consider to be vaccinated.  Will they include all vaccines?  Single dose or does it have to be double dose?  What if a booster shot is required will that be part of the requirement?  What if you are Covid-19 recovered and therefore have a better immunity than the vaccinated?

Perhaps NZTR will introduce pre-race testing for both Trainer and Horse?  Given that vaccinated and non-vaccinated can both be infectious will instant saliva tests be required for ALL?

With regard testing horses there is evidence that Covid-19 is present in any number of mammals.  The New York zoo is vaccinating their captives.  

[Gammalite]

22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

The key difference is that there has been insufficient time to accumulate enough data for Covid-19 (Pzifer has released less than 6 months of trial data March 2021 - none of which included any data for under 16's) to make any assumptions about the safety of any of the vaccines for children for a disease that has little to no effect on.  Much much less than influenza and certainly much much less than Whooping Cough.

The unquantified unknown benefit of the vaccine does NOT outweigh the risk of serious Covid-19 illness.  Sadly we are putting an unnecessary (in my opinion unethical) burden on children to protect older cohorts who are at risk.  The role of any parent in life is to protect their young NOT to use them as a human barrier to protect themselves.

Yes , that is fair enough Chief. It's the carrier issue that is pressing as well as 'self preservation' . My kids are older and working in the city, so had vaccine. I can't be bothered at present, but they keep insisting  "Go Get it." lol..

In the future , when a large actually really dangerous virus occurs , a huge chunk of people will be wiped out , like a bigger scale Spanish Flu that killed millions a century ago , with people of all ages. 

27 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

You are making the same mistake that many are making by labelling anyone who questions the Covid-19 vaccine as being anti-vax and anti all vaccines.  

I'm not anti-vax or Pro vax. I gave the kids Menningoccal vacine when high-schools issued it . Another nasty thing that is best to avoid. Polio vaccines are great ! saved thousands from lifetimes of suffering . 

But make no mistake VACCINES are poison. some will react to it. It kills cells. Chlorine in the water supply destroys cells too. It is a Poison . But you could stop your kids swimming for a while I guess (to avoid injesting Chlorine, and drink distilled water instead of tap-water poison. Not worth worrying about !!! The kids ten step outside and start sucking in the TRAFFIC fumes in the air anyway . another 50 toxins the body has to deal with. then they start drinking alcohol and killing a few Brain cells . Worry about a pitiful little vaccine after that ??? Naaaahhhhh. pass.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

But as I said in an earlier post isn't there the possibility that NZTR could legally make it a condition of licensing? 

Don't see how. Their licensing rules cannot contravene human rights law or any other statutes.

[Chief Stipe]

24 minutes ago, curious said:

Don't see how. Their licensing rules cannot contravene human rights law or any other statutes.

Well there are any number of companies that have written it into their employment contracts.  I just saw a role advertised at the Auckland Airport in a non customer facing IT role that requires proof of first vaccination before employment and 2nd vaccine within 35 days of starting.

This article on Stuff reports a case that failed in the ERA going to the High Court.  Will cover multiple applications. 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126304552/challenge-to-legality-of-vaccine-mandate-for-frontline-border-workers?cid=app-android

[barryb]

8 hours ago, curious said:

Can't I don't think. From the Human Rights Commission site and that's for an employer which NZTR aint of racing participants, but racing rules can't override other statutes including Human Rights Law:

Can my employer require me to have a vaccine?

New Zealand's primary workplace health and safety regulator, Worksafe, has produced a guide to assess whether a specific role needs to be performed by a vaccinated worker. The guidance states:

Businesses and services can’t require an individual to be vaccinated. However, you can require a specific role be performed by a vaccinated person - if you have done a health and safety risk assessment to support this.

Very simply if you are not vaccinated you will be squeezed out of the NZ employment market, in almost all industries.

Its happening now if you are visiting some sites and if you are not vaccinated or refuse to state (treated as no) then you are not allowed on site. This is gaining momentum and is driving vaccination by fear of future prospects, whether it’s against legislation or not, it’s reality right now.

I can see a time soon where you won’t be allowed into cafes/restaurants/shops unless jabbed,  it’s peer pressure fear at its worst. Colleagues will refuse to work alongside you & so on, creating massive dilemmas for employers, dream on if you think this isn’t happening now. You are free to choose & we can’t ask you your status but be prepared to declare it when seeking employment elsewhere or at contract renewal time.

[Chief Stipe]

The vaccinated AND the unvaccinated will always be welcome on BOAY.

[SLB2.0]

41 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

The vaccinated AND the unvaccinated will always be welcome on BOAY.

Did you see Leo's latest drunken rambling? Lockdown is hitting the man hard.

[Joe Bloggs]

Molloys tag should read....''Fully vaccinated and free to a good home''.

[Chief Stipe]