Pattern Committee report

[curious]

A few historically significant races pointed towards downgrade.

 

[Chief Stipe]

All very fine having alerts but when was the last time there was a downgrade?

 

[Doomed]

The Canterbury Jockey Club won't mind, they have their AWT and no one can downgrade that.

I'm surprised more races aren't listed. Races like the Auckland Cup, Herbie Dyke, Waikato Guineas etc must be pretty shaky.

What's going to happen to the group 1s this season now we no longer have Melody Belle and Avantage? There are going to be some pretty ordinary types winning big races who won't be anywhere near competitive if they go to Aussie.

We have far too many group and listed races anyhow; more group 2s and 3s than we had 7 or 8 years ago despite a lot fewer races.

[nomates]

3 minutes ago, Doomed said:

We have far too many group and listed races anyhow; more group 2s and 3s than we had 7 or 8 years ago despite a lot fewer races.

This is exactly what the big breeders want , soft black type , and boy do we have the softest black type going . There was a time when we used to scoff at Asian group form , which one would you recognise as the stronger now . That says it all for me .

[nomates]

1 hour ago, curious said:

A few historically significant races pointed towards downgrade.

 

I will put down in order where i think each sits in real terms of the strength of NZ form , i'm sure there will be disagreement , but just MHO.

G3

G2 ?

Listed

G1 , but on shaky ground .

G2 ?

G3

Listed ?

G3

Listed

Listed

The ? means i'm not even sure they should rank that highly .

Below this list there is a raft of light weight 2/3yo listed races that should not carry black type , i.e. Ryder Stakes , Castletown Stakes , a couple of late season 2yo races at Ellerslie , the O'Leary Stakes , The Wanganui Gns , the gns races in the lower SI . There are plenty of others .

I believe we need to lose about 1/2 of our black type races at present , not saying forever but we need to get our racing significantly stronger before we can genuinely hold our black type form up to the world .

[Freda]

Saudi Arabia is waiting.....

[nomates]

4 minutes ago, Freda said:

Saudi Arabia is waiting.....

Well we are building the right type of tracks .

[Joe Bloggs]

Get rid of the pricks that ruined your racing, the fleas that lined their own pockets and didn't give a tuppeny cuss about the future....only theirs.......they know who they are, you know who they are, it makes sense...or not.

[curious]

There WERE downgrades this year, including the Auckland Cup.

5.2 Downgrades
Auckland RC, Auckland Cup - from G1 to G2 – This race has been saved in recent years by the APC distance race downgrade moratorium. As has been the case for a number of years, the race failed to meet its 112 threshold with an outcome of 110.0. This follows earlier ratings of 108.75, 108.75 and 107.75. The NZPC agreed that the race should be downgraded to Group 2 as it continued to perform well below the requirement for a Group 1 race and would be unable to keep its status with the forthcoming expiry of the downgrade moratorium. The NZPC recommended that the race keep its prizemoney, that it revert to being a handicap and that it be given “Heritage 1” status in the event that NZTR supports a heritage handicap structure.

Auckland RC, Easter Handicap – from G2 to G3 - This race was under a Warning prior not being run in the 2019/20 season and again failed to achieve the minimum tolerance level by some distance. The 100.5 that the race rated during the 2020/21 season was well below the 107 required by a Group 2 race. The Committee agreed that the race should be downgraded but recommended that it be given “Heritage” status as a handicap and retain its prizemoney in the event that NZTR supports a heritage handicap structure.

Racing Rotorua, Rotorua Cup – from G3 to L - This race was under a Warning prior to not being run in the 2019/20 season. The rating of 99.5 was again below the 102 threshold. It was agreed that the race would be downgraded to Listed and that it may be best placed as a heritage handicap with unchanged prizemoney in the event that NZTR supports a heritage handicap structure.

 

[Freda]

29 minutes ago, Doomed said:

The Canterbury Jockey Club won't mind, they have their AWT and no one can downgrade that.

I'm surprised more races aren't listed. Races like the Auckland Cup, Herbie Dyke, Waikato Guineas etc must be pretty shaky.

What's going to happen to the group 1s this season now we no longer have Melody Belle and Avantage? There are going to be some pretty ordinary types winning big races who won't be anywhere near competitive if they go to Aussie.

We have far too many group and listed races anyhow; more group 2s and 3s than we had 7 or 8 years ago despite a lot fewer races.

Is there a specific percentage of races allowed to be black type?  Or is it a subjective assessment?

Italy has lost its group 1's,  but has the overall number diminished?

[Freda]

1 minute ago, Freda said:

Is there a specific percentage of races allowed to be black type?  Or is it a subjective assessment?

Italy has lost its group 1's,  but has the overall number diminished?

Okay, Curious has just answered that.

[curious]

The aim is 5% in a pyramid structure. Lost races due to Covid complicated matters there a bit last year.

 

Given a decline in the number of lower level races run over the last two seasons, the Pattern race percentage will be over 6%. Every country has unique aspects to its racing structure. The NZPC acknowledges that NZ has very few non-tote races and a large number of competitive trials relative to most other jurisdictions.
While each NZ Pattern race justifies its status with respect to the APC Ground Rules, the NZPC views the percentage of Pattern races as unacceptably high if confidence in the integrity of NZ black type is to be maintained. Further, the NZPC is concerned that it is constrained from promoting worthy races due to an excessive number of existing Pattern races and that this may lead to a calcification of the Pattern.

[nomates]

3 minutes ago, curious said:

Racing Rotorua, Rotorua Cup – from G3 to L - This race was under a Warning prior to not being run in the 2019/20 season. The rating of 99.5 was again below the 102 threshold. It was agreed that the race would be downgraded to Listed and that it may be best placed as a heritage handicap with unchanged prizemoney in the event that NZTR supports a heritage handicap structure.

 

This race was run this year with a R84 horse at the top of the handicap , the winner was a R70 horse called Suliman , aged 8/9 yo , got a 5 point ratings increase .

This is just stealing Black type for the breeder , and good luck to them , but really it's a farce , i see stronger midweek stayers races run in Melbourne .

This is the type of black type race that is a farce . One of many that should be gone .

[curious]

22 minutes ago, nomates said:

Below this list there is a raft of light weight 2/3yo listed races that should not carry black type , i.e. Ryder Stakes , Castletown Stakes , a couple of late season 2yo races at Ellerslie , the O'Leary Stakes , The Wanganui Gns , the gns races in the lower SI . There are plenty of others .

3. The NZPC discussed the current 2yo programme at length and agreed that a sub-committee be formed to examine it and make recommendations to NZTR on any potential changes.

[nomates]

1 minute ago, curious said:

3. The NZPC discussed the current 2yo programme at length and agreed that a sub-committee be formed to examine it and make recommendations to NZTR on any potential changes.

The word potential worries me , how many breeders on that sub committee ? 

[curious]

These 2 will be gone if they don't meet the ratings standard in the current season.

5.10 Warnings Issued
G2 Championship Stakes
Auckland RC
G2 Coupland Bakeries Mile
Canterbury RC

[curious]

Report of the NZPC 2021.pdf

[Chief Stipe]

47 minutes ago, curious said:

The Committee agreed that the race should be downgraded but recommended that it be given “Heritage” status as a handicap and retain its prizemoney in the event that NZTR supports a heritage handicap structure.

WTF retain prize money for a handicap race that will struggle to break R90!

[nomates]

38 minutes ago, curious said:

Report of the NZPC 2021.pdf 329.81 kB · 1 download

The list of 3yo black type races in particular is ridiculous , we're just handing out free candy .

Plus they are looking adding some races to the lists , i would suggest their criteria needs to be updated urgently .

[nomates]

10 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

WTF retain prize money for a handicap race that will struggle to break R90!

Exactly , like i said the Rotorua Cup was just a R84 handicap and they want to keep it a heritage race . Give it 10 years there could be heritage races for R65's .

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, curious said:

The NZPC recommended that the race keep its prizemoney, that it revert to being a handicap and that it be given “Heritage 1” status in the event that NZTR supports a heritage handicap structure

Where is this "Heritage" grading bullshit coming from?  What are they saying - "Sorry not good enough for a Grp 1 but you can still race for $300,000 in stakes."

[Freda]

7 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Where is this "Heritage" grading bullshit coming from?  What are they saying - "Sorry not good enough for a Grp 1 but you can still race for $300,000 in stakes."

Yeah....squeezed out of the bottom rung.

[Ludwig]

24 minutes ago, Freda said:

Yeah....squeezed out of the bottom rung.

Freda, do you know how long Ray Coupland is tied in with the C0uplands  Mile? ... Especially if it's on a threatened downgrade list?

[Gospel of Judas]

Should downgrade all black type races, most of them are full of second and third rate horses. If had inch brain matter in RITA and NZTR, would come to conclusion that lifting bottom of racing be better investment. Also increase quality of the top end black type Racing. However Ellis and co's big breeders in Waikato, want piss up the wall all what left for themselves. Make money while they can! of spin and bullshit.

[Nostradamus]

59 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Where is this "Heritage" grading bullshit coming from?  What are they saying - "Sorry not good enough for a Grp 1 but you can still race for $300,000 in stakes."

England hold heritage handicaps that are not black type races The Ebor a prime example.