Doomed Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 23 hours ago, nomates said: What did people think of Callsign Mav , blame the track or indicative of our G1 form , or a bit of both , but he was a long way off the winner . We have a G3 at Trentham today and the field suggests we are yet again throwing away black type , I can see a major shakeup in our black type races coming over the next 5 years . 5 years too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 23 hours ago, holy ravioli said: Totally outclassed. Melody Belle won a Grp race and was competitive ,but its a step up. Avantage another that pinched 1 win but that was it.Also that Te Akau 3 y.o that has had a couple of starts in Sydney for 0. Yes totally out classed, but still clearly superior to those left in NZ. To give credit to the Melody Belle and Avantage team, they were clever enough to pick off the easy pickings close to home, and ended up with incredible sales prices, presumably because of all those "group" wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 52 minutes ago, Doomed said: I didn't realise we were talking last 5 years. I know two of the worst were in Perth and Brisbane, but pretty sure Poetic Prince was Melbourne. Just for context...the whip rules were different years ago too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 On 24/10/2021 at 11:14 AM, nomates said: We have a G3 at Trentham today and the field suggests we are yet again throwing away black type , I can see a major shakeup in our black type races coming over the next 5 years . This race has NEVER attracted a top field for some reason. Wrong time of year for the distance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 On 24/10/2021 at 11:14 AM, nomates said: What did people think of Callsign Mav , blame the track or indicative of our G1 form , or a bit of both , but he was a long way off the winner . Big ask to take him over there and straight into one of the top four Grp1's of the Melbourne Spring Carnival. Lots of things against him. The trip and the track. He'll win something of note over there if placed right. But the sad thing for NZ racing is that yet another durable gelding has been handicapped out of here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Big ask to take him over there and straight into one of the top four Grp1's of the Melbourne Spring Carnival. Lots of things against him. The trip and the track. He'll win something of note over there if placed right. But the sad thing for NZ racing is that yet another durable gelding has been handicapped out of here. Possibly , but Harlem who ran 4th behind him not that far away couldn't handle city class let alone G1 over there , Benalla cup was his lot , if the form line holds then he might struggle . I hope not as i have a soft spot for him , have always liked him as a horse and have won plenty off him , including the 50's he paid last year . My worry is that NZ form for most horses just seems to be getting further and further away from the best Aussie form . Other than the odd Te Akau exception . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Doomed said: 5 years too late. I'm not talking tinkering i'm talking a complete overhaul . They are just tinkering at present . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, nomates said: My worry is that NZ form for most horses just seems to be getting further and further away from the best Aussie form . Other than the odd Te Akau exception . In my opinion it isn't that our horses aren't good enough it is how we train them and the lack of competition here. For some of our best horses starting first time in OZ must be a bit of a shock. They find they are in races where the speed is on, the fields are even and the racing tight. Hell two thirds of any field in NZ Grp racing "need a run" i.e. they are not match fit which is hardly surprising when you look at the class of trials we have here. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 17 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: In my opinion it isn't that our horses aren't good enough it is how we train them and the lack of competition here. For some of our best horses starting first time in OZ must be a bit of a shock. They find they are in races where the speed is on, the fields are even and the racing tight. Hell two thirds of any field in NZ Grp racing "need a run" i.e. they are not match fit which is hardly surprising when you look at the class of trials we have here. You make good points. I recall the owner/trainer of Just a tad..NZ's top 3 y.o filly making comments in that vein years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: I recall the owner/trainer of Just a tad..NZ's top 3 y.o filly making comments in that vein years ago. It's got worse or harder depending on your perspective as the quality of our racing has declined. A stable like Te Akau can compensate because they have a big stable and can mix and match to push their horses to a different level. Murray Baker has it down to an art form with a smaller stable however I understand his attrition rate is up there with Gai Waterhouse. Now that doesn't work for many owners with many getting the stitch quickly when they fork out big dosh for yearlings and training fees only to see their horses never getting to the races! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 10 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: It's got worse or harder depending on your perspective as the quality of our racing has declined. A stable like Te Akau can compensate because they have a big stable and can mix and match to push their horses to a different level. Murray Baker has it down to an art form with a smaller stable however I understand his attrition rate is up there with Gai Waterhouse. Now that doesn't work for many owners with many getting the stitch quickly when they fork out big dosh for yearlings and training fees only to see their horses never getting to the races! I remember a filly called First Seal in Sydney.Early days she had the better of Winx. Waller rested Winx,while FS ran in every race under the sun,weight,draw,tracks no problem. Their 4 y.o careers were chalk and cheese. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 We have plenty of horses that have the ability to win good races in Australia , the problem is the majority have been hooked the minute they show anything at trials or race performance , christ they even buy them out of jumpouts , that's after they have bought all our best blood at the yearling sales then the RTR's , most seasons now most of our competitive 2yo's , after Te Akau's horses , then 3yo's are bought up , up until a couple of years ago Aus and HK would hook most of our better 3yo colts towards the end of the season , now they are plucking them as soon as they identify them rather than wait to confirm what they are seeing , because there is now so much competition to get these horses , because both those jurisdictions are booming . Now they are also in on early season 3yo fillies . So once these have been taken out of our system our racing becomes diluted , hence the state of our group racing , we lose a couple of Te Akau's best the Callsign Mav goes and last weeks G1 at Hastings was a joke , as was yesterdays Thompson , the Thompson was always a competitive and genuine group race , not any more , just like most of our black type races . Against world standard our group racing is farcical . Whilst we continue breeding such small numbers and horses are sold in such numbers then we will continue to have poor top quality racing , at least before when we were breeding 6/7k foals we always had enough numbers to allow good horses to shine and therefor keep our racing having a competitive edge . It's not sustainable with the number of horses we have left to expect large numbers of top quality of horses , and as shown 2/3 go out of the system around the same time , bang , our quality drops . Te Akau are the one small saviour in as much they don't sell so their best so they race here which holds up our better races to a large degree . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: I remember a filly called First Seal in Sydney.Early days she had the better of Winx. Waller rested Winx,while FS ran in every race under the sun,weight,draw,tracks no problem. Their 4 y.o careers were chalk and cheese. Totally agree , but then that is Australian racing to a tee , get as much as you can while you can as a top 2/3yo then off to stud , if they are good enough . Must be hard to resist the temptation when the money is like confetti . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 3 hours ago, nomates said: Te Akau are the one small saviour in as much they don't sell so their best so they race here which holds up our better races to a large degree . GOLD WATCH !! Well here's one horse that is going lift the level of our group racing over the next few months . Won't be sold , will make it to Australia at some stage which he should , carries a similar profile to Elephant , but until then the we should just enjoy this horse , IMO he could be the best horse racing in NZ through the next 12 months . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 1 hour ago, nomates said: GOLD WATCH !! Well here's one horse that is going lift the level of our group racing over the next few months . Won't be sold , will make it to Australia at some stage which he should , carries a similar profile to Elephant , but until then the we should just enjoy this horse , IMO he could be the best horse racing in NZ through the next 12 months . If he's the Swiss Ace 5 y.o I just looked up,doesn't say much for the talent pool in NZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 12 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: If he's the Swiss Ace 5 y.o I just looked up,doesn't say much for the talent pool in NZ. Won fresh up today like the good horse he showed last prep , and the talent pool is thin and getting thinner so nice that this one wont be sold . And i say getting thinner but i have seen some nice horses so far this spring but the majority will be sold or transferred to an Aus stable . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 1 hour ago, nomates said: Won fresh up today like the good horse he showed last prep , and the talent pool is thin and getting thinner so nice that this one wont be sold . And i say getting thinner but i have seen some nice horses so far this spring but the majority will be sold or transferred to an Aus stable . .The future of NZ breeding/racing is a prep nursery for Aussie and Asian racing stock...if it is not already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 1 hour ago, nomates said: Won fresh up today like the good horse he showed last prep , and the talent pool is thin and getting thinner so nice that this one wont be sold . And i say getting thinner but i have seen some nice horses so far this spring but the majority will be sold or transferred to an Aus stable . Hell just saw the result!Good money...hope you got..plenty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 1 hour ago, holy ravioli said: Hell just saw the result!Good money...hope you got..plenty. Finished a 3 horse multi so done alright . He was the class horse by a mile but drifted from 1.8 about 15 mins before the race , was gobsmacked when he ended at 2.7 , i had him at 2.1 from earlier . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 1 hour ago, holy ravioli said: .The future of NZ breeding/racing is a prep nursery for Aussie and Asian racing stock...if it is not already! The shame of it is that it never used to be , the rise of Asia over the last 25 years has really depleted us . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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