holy ravioli Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Since the neo liberal mandate begun in the 80's with Reagan,Thatcher and Douglas here in NZ, the world has been enthralled with financial chicanery at the expense of real productivity. By offshoring manufacturing to China and with the repeal of the Glass Steagal Act by Clinton in 1999,Banks were de regulated and unleashed an orgy of financial instruments,derivatives ,CDO's,swaps,futures etc. By 2008 it all imploded with the GFC. The GFC was basically a stalemate where financial institutions had no trust,no faith in counter party dealings. Cue the entry of the U.S Govt/taxpayer to save these titan's of business acumen with what became know as Quantitative Easing. What was supposed to be a temporary measure until stability was restored became the lynchpin of federal reserve strategy. Where once millions were significant,it became billions and now trillions. A magic show of unpayable debt. 'If you spent $40 per second, around the clock, it would take you 289 days to exhaust a billion dollars. If you did the same thing with a trillion dollars, it would take you 792.5 years to go broke' When debt is Govt debt,it is really 'money' the Govt owes itself. The $U.S is the reserve currency for international commerce.So long as it retains this status there is little danger of any default,as the B.I.S,IMF,Swift system and World Bank are under their control to all intents and purposes. In NZ the Govt issues Treasury bills to the Reserve Bank who can buy or sell bonds to the big banks.They have been buying bonds/assets from the banks ,which increases liquidity in the financial markets. Unlike private debt which can be fatal,Govt debt is gilt edged as the Govt has the ability to tax and implement fiscal policy. It is a fascinating topic.One which not surprisingly is not deemed necessary to be part of basic education. Most people think banks act as an intermediary,taking deposits/paying investors interest and arranging loans to borrowers. The reality is that when someone receives a mortgage sum,the numbers are just digitally printed into an account.i.e the 'money' is created by loans. Physical Fiat currency is only about 3% of money supply. You can see why the economy is now totally reliant on the property ponzi scheme. Unearned,non productive passive income profiteering has superceded real ,honest goods and services. One day...the music will stop....but when!! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 To think all this developed from trading in goats, camels, and slaves..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, Freda said: To think all this developed from trading in goats, camels, and slaves..... Ah those were the days , I remember them well . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 22 minutes ago, Freda said: To think all this developed from trading in goats, camels, and slaves..... Blame the Dutch where merchants began meeting in coffee shops to devise methods to extract profits from the exploitation of labour and resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 hour ago, holy ravioli said: Blame the Dutch where merchants began meeting in coffee shops to devise methods to extract profits from the exploitation of labour and resources. Could have guessed you are a bloody socialist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 hour ago, holy ravioli said: Since the neo liberal mandate begun in the 80's with Reagan,Thatcher and Douglas here in NZ, the world has been enthralled with financial chicanery at the expense of real productivity. Yep bring back the command economy managed by executive decree - well don't bring it back we already have it under this Labour Government! Oh we do forget so easily - the memories of car less days, Think Big, Muldoon devaluing the dollar with the stroke of a pen, warehouses full of Government procurement's never to be used. I remember having to apply for foreign exchange down at the Post Office to purchase a hobby magazine from the USA. Yes those were the days of intense productivity. SMP's..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 hour ago, holy ravioli said: By 2008 it all imploded with the GFC. The GFC was basically a stalemate where financial institutions had no trust,no faith in counter party dealings. Surprisingly countries with the least regulation and open economies faired best during the GFC. For NZ it was a blip - nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 hour ago, holy ravioli said: Since the neo liberal mandate begun in the 80's with Reagan,Thatcher and Douglas here in NZ, the world has been enthralled with financial chicanery at the expense of real productivity. By offshoring manufacturing to China and with the repeal of the Glass Steagal Act by Clinton in 1999,Banks were de regulated and unleashed an orgy of financial instruments,derivatives ,CDO's,swaps,futures etc. By 2008 it all imploded with the GFC. The GFC was basically a stalemate where financial institutions had no trust,no faith in counter party dealings. Cue the entry of the U.S Govt/taxpayer to save these titan's of business acumen with what became know as Quantitative Easing. What was supposed to be a temporary measure until stability was restored became the lynchpin of federal reserve strategy. Where once millions were significant,it became billions and now trillions. A magic show of unpayable debt. 'If you spent $40 per second, around the clock, it would take you 289 days to exhaust a billion dollars. If you did the same thing with a trillion dollars, it would take you 792.5 years to go broke' When debt is Govt debt,it is really 'money' the Govt owes itself. The $U.S is the reserve currency for international commerce.So long as it retains this status there is little danger of any default,as the B.I.S,IMF,Swift system and World Bank are under their control to all intents and purposes. In NZ the Govt issues Treasury bills to the Reserve Bank who can buy or sell bonds to the big banks.They have been buying bonds/assets from the banks ,which increases liquidity in the financial markets. Unlike private debt which can be fatal,Govt debt is gilt edged as the Govt has the ability to tax and implement fiscal policy. It is a fascinating topic.One which not surprisingly is not deemed necessary to be part of basic education. Most people think banks act as an intermediary,taking deposits/paying investors interest and arranging loans to borrowers. The reality is that when someone receives a mortgage sum,the numbers are just digitally printed into an account.i.e the 'money' is created by loans. Physical Fiat currency is only about 3% of money supply. You can see why the economy is now totally reliant on the property ponzi scheme. Unearned,non productive passive income profiteering has superceded real ,honest goods and services. One day...the music will stop....but when!! You've really confused cause and effect in this spiel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Remind me again re the Panama Papers, NZ was heavily implicated in that, it was so easy to wash black money in 'lil ole NZ'' and it all started just after the GFC. Most of NZ 's banks are surcasals of Aussie banks, so the clever bastards used NZ as a washing machine......me thinks it's still happening cos Ardern wouldn't know and her lieutenants aren't good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 53 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: You've really confused cause and effect in this spiel. I don't believe I have at all.You should back your observations up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 56 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Surprisingly countries with the least regulation and open economies faired best during the GFC. For NZ it was a blip - nothing more. Too funny!The countries with the least regulation CAUSED the GFC.'When Wall St sneezes the rest of the world catches a cold'. Yes the collateral damage was only mass foreclosures for the working class in the U.S. The banksters continued to rack up rap sheets of fraud,money laundering,market rigging all the while maintaining their obscene bonus system which is justified by what! This 'blip' has lead to the ludicrous situation where an ordinary house in Auckland sells for $1million plus. It has lead to even more inequality. I guess you have bought the cliches...'trickle down theory'-'a rising tide lifts all boats'-too big to fail. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Could have guessed you are a bloody socialist! Love to see your definition of Socialist,Capitalist,a Command economy...and free trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Joe Bloggs said: Remind me again re the Panama Papers, NZ was heavily implicated in that, it was so easy to wash black money in 'lil ole NZ'' and it all started just after the GFC. Most of NZ 's banks are surcasals of Aussie banks, so the clever bastards used NZ as a washing machine......me thinks it's still happening cos Ardern wouldn't know and her lieutenants aren't good enough. NZ becoming a 'tax haven'...money laundering centre was introduced by Jonkey Tonks National Govt. It benefitted his former lawyer and a handful of others in that space. To hell with NZ's international reputation. The Key Govt did what right wing Govts do....rob the poor to give to the rich. Privatise the common assets,defund public owned entities,demonise the lowest class on the modern feudal ladder and maintain gravy train old boy relationships. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: The countries with the least regulation CAUSED the GFC Your proof? 5 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: This 'blip' has lead to the ludicrous situation where an ordinary house in Auckland sells for $1million plus Simply the result of supply and demand. Low supply high demand exacerbated by market distortion caused by Council bureaucracy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 minute ago, holy ravioli said: NZ becoming a 'tax haven'...money laundering centre was introduced by Jonkey Tonks National Govt. It benefitted his former lawyer and a handful of others in that space. To hell with NZ's international reputation. The Key Govt did what right wing Govts do....rob the poor to give to the rich. Privatise the common assets,defund public owned entities,demonise the lowest class on the modern feudal ladder and maintain gravy train old boy relationships. What a load of shit. You really have this socialist diatribe down to a well rehearsed art form. You must be tormented to see Cindy and her bunch of idiots have made the rich richer and the poor poorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 13 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: I guess you have bought the cliches...'trickle down theory'-'a rising tide lifts all boats'-too big to fail Unlike you I don't buy into any cliches. Any Government intervention that distorts the market will make economic outcomes worse. History proves that. Name one "investment" by this current Government that has improved productivity? Or improved economic wealth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 Just now, Chief Stipe said: Your proof? Simply the result of supply and demand. Low supply high demand exacerbated by market distortion caused by Council bureaucracy. God,you must have a great supply of Kool Aid! My proof is in the body of my earlier post that you scorned.i.e the reality of international financial structure. Q.E meant there was a huge injection of funds chasing the most reliable store of value=Property. Exacerbated by the obsession with GDP and 'growth'...immigration numbers were ramped up and the effect of near zero interest rates to avoid complete collapse did the rest.Property inflation is not productive and when a vacant house earns more in a week than some poor bastard trying to house and feed his family you know something is rotten in the state of NZ. The young generation have been locked out of home ownership=a stake in society. Around 200,000 empty homes in NZ.40,000 in Auck alone. 23,000 people living in motels. All done in the best ..possible taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: What a load of shit. You really have this socialist diatribe down to a well rehearsed art form. You must be tormented to see Cindy and her bunch of idiots have made the rich richer and the poor poorer. It is all easily confirmed fact I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Unlike you I don't buy into any cliches. Any Government intervention that distorts the market will make economic outcomes worse. History proves that. Name one "investment" by this current Government that has improved productivity? Or improved economic wealth? There are many but you could start with their handling of MBovis. Your turn -1 thing the Natz did in 9 years that achieved the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: There are many but you could start with their handling of MBovis. I said name one. Mbovis eradication hasn't improved productivity nor has it happened yet. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/445255/mycoplasma-bovis-government-s-response-badly-planned-and-poorly-executed-study The cost benefit analysis is appalling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 10 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: It is all easily confirmed fact I'm afraid. Yes that the rich have got richer and the poor poorer under Cindy's Government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: I said name one. Mbovis eradication hasn't improved productivity nor has it happened yet. The cost benefit analysis is appalling. By addressing the spread of Mbovis there was less cull of livestock=more product for market and less impact on farmers earnings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 12 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: Q.E meant there was a huge injection of funds chasing the most reliable store of value=Property. Exacerbated by the obsession with GDP and 'growth'...immigration numbers were ramped up and the effect of near zero interest rates to avoid complete collapse did the rest.Property inflation is not productive and when a vacant house earns more in a week than some poor bastard trying to house and feed his family you know something is rotten in the state of NZ. All policies that this Socialist Government introduced with gay abandon. BTW I don't disagree that QE has been a very foolish intervention bought to us by a Labour Government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 Just now, Chief Stipe said: Yes that the rich have got richer and the poor poorer under Cindy's Government. The rich have indeed got richer. There has been some good done for the average worker...min wage increases,rental standards but generally Labour are much like the Natz...scared to do anything radical and frighten the middle class and get kicked out. I go along with the descriptor of Ardern as 'Tony Blair in high heels'...not a great fan at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 14 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: Around 200,000 empty homes in NZ.40,000 in Auck alone So there isn't a housing crisis just an availability and affordability one? 15 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: The young generation have been locked out of home ownership=a stake in society. That is a generalisation that actually doesnt hold up to scrutiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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