Chief Stipe Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 There has been some debate in another Topic (a little off Topic!) regarding Show Gate vs Winx. Being a Googlephile and a student of data and analysis I've spent some time in the last few days looking at Winx's ratings and performances. Her and Frankel raced during the same era. He was ranked 6 to 10 points ahead of Winx - she was the highest ranked mare or fully of her era and on one ranking of all time. Who do you rank as top? Winx or Frankel? Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 Having seen them both, Frankel. I rode in a race against Triton, you wouldn't remember him, he won by 8 lengths that day, I've never seen a horse with the turn of foot that Triton had......until Frankel, he destroyed the best Europe could muster, and you saw what happens when the best of European horses come down under, but I don't rate Winx as good as Sunline so it's really irrelevant. Syd Brown told me the best horse he ever saw was Daryl's Joy, so I wonder what Syd would have made of Winx. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 42 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said: Having seen them both, Frankel. I rode in a race against Triton, you wouldn't remember him, he won by 8 lengths that day, I've never seen a horse with the turn of foot that Triton had......until Frankel, he destroyed the best Europe could muster, and you saw what happens when the best of European horses come down under, but I don't rate Winx as good as Sunline so it's really irrelevant. Syd Brown told me the best horse he ever saw was Daryl's Joy, so I wonder what Syd would have made of Winx. On what basis do you say Frankel had a "turn of foot"? What was his fastest 200m sectional? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 A turn of foot is commensurate with the jock releasing the brakes and the distance the horse puts between himself and the peloton. If you watch Tom he hardly moves on the great horse, he's able to gap proven Gr1 horses in the chasing posse comprising class horses, his win in the 2000 guineas was something else but IMO his win at his last start Champion's Day at Ascot on a heavy track was just all class, Timeform rated this horse correctly as the greatest to ever look through a bridle, he won me, he won millions of others and in his retirement is an absolute gentleman, I urge you to read the Wikipedia synopsis as I can't do the resume justice........can I just add, sectionals on English racecourses can be very misleading as most are undulating some have uphill run ins resembling skate board parks, Brighton is downhill and horses can run home in clock destroying times, it was simply the class of horse and the way Frankel beat them that put him on the pedestal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 I was going to say much the same...not with the first-hand knowledge that you have of course, but, especially, the impossibility of comparing 'sectionals' on English racecourses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy connolly Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 3 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said: I rode in a race against Triton, you wouldn't remember him, he won by 8 lengths that day, I've never seen a horse with the turn of foot that Triton had......until Frankel, he destroyed the best Europe could muster, and you saw what happens when the best of European horses come down under, but I don't rate Winx as good as Sunline so it's really irrelevant. Syd Brown told me the best horse he ever saw was Daryl's Joy, so I wonder what Syd would have made of Winx. Bill Skelton's face always lit up whenever Daryl's Joy was mentioned, he rated him way ahead of anything else he rode, Triton included. Daryl's Joy, Frankel and Tulloch would've been a hell of a match race, just as Sunline, Winx and Show Gate would've been. Frankel had the advantage of big roomy European tracks although he probably would've still second-rated them on our tighter tracks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said: Having seen them both, Frankel. I rode in a race against Triton, you wouldn't remember him, he won by 8 lengths that day, I've never seen a horse with the turn of foot that Triton had......until Frankel, he destroyed the best Europe could muster, and you saw what happens when the best of European horses come down under, but I don't rate Winx as good as Sunline so it's really irrelevant. Syd Brown told me the best horse he ever saw was Daryl's Joy, so I wonder what Syd would have made of Winx. Triton had some great battles with ...Gunsynd....the days of Pakistan2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 Often a barometer of ability is the classic 3.y.o year. Winx came into prominence as a mare I believe. When we see the quality of animal from the Northern Hemisphere,I suggest Frankels achievements are superior. State of Rest pops in to take the CP-Zaaki hardly a top liner in the North spanks fields ...down under. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLB2.0 Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 You would have to say Frankel based on what the third-string Europeans do in Australia. Winx had many starts against resuming stayers from her own stable. Would have loved to see her in something like the HK Mile, but connections wanted the easy cash I suppose (not like they're short of it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 I will always love what Winx achieved...the way she was handled as I alluded to earlier re First Seal ,just cements in history what a wonderful trainer ,our verry own CW is. He is the ultimate NZ dream success story..hard work,ability,belief! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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