NZTR Consultation Document: Favours "Elite" Trainers!

[Joe Bloggs]

Usually I'd say, ''new page, give em a go'' however, you guys are closer to it than I.......if that's correct and it's only gone to compliant members of the NZTA, then again, something stinks, if not, then you should rock up as NM alluded to and hold them to account.....shout out from the floor, you should see what happens when Wesfarmers have their AGM and hundreds of stockholders get animated.......it's on for young and old.....the board have nowhere to hide, so go for it I say and if their transparent and reformed you might, just might get a nice surprise....likely ? No.

[curious]

Well I've had nothing from NZTR either as an owner, trainer or punter. Only that from the NZTA. And, I won't be wasting my time rocking up sorry. Been there done that.

[Joe Bloggs]

20 minutes ago, curious said:

Well I've had nothing from NZTR either as an owner, trainer or punter. Only that from the NZTA. And, I won't be wasting my time rocking up sorry. Been there done that.

If that's the case Curious, it appears Petone has burned grass roots racing people, you're close to it, so I bow to your better judgement. I should have known better, the worlds just not what it once was. We only have two horses left in NZ, one we leased, she races tomorrow, was meant to be anything, her Mum had 14 foals, 12 won, hopefully she will finally put her best hoof forward and show the potential she is alluded to have.

The other a yearling will either go to your trainer Curious for her 2yo year, or come here and may be the last horse I ever train, or go to Lee Freedman. Chris Waller emailed us asking to train her sister, sadly she had to be put down after a botched veterinary procedure.......so, we are nearly done, how fucking sad is it that NZ has become the rag and bone man of world racing.......good luck with yours mate, in great hands....and showing it!

 

[Freda]

 

 

47 minutes ago, curious said:

Well I've had nothing from NZTR either as an owner, trainer or punter. Only that from the NZTA. And, I won't be wasting my time rocking up sorry. Been there done that.

Neither have I.  Only from NZTA.     

That arrived Sunday, with a request to RSVP by Monday....!!   

Curious expressed his thoughts far better than I could...no specific 'agenda',  aims, or points of discussion, with opinions  and/or suggested solutions called for.   No research that I could see as a term of reference,  with evidence that a particular plan might work.

Just a lot of fluffy stuff, with that awful comment ' elite trainers will not have to compete with the lower-cost model '  which has offended people at the track this morning, I can assure you.

But most will have the same view.  The roadshow will be an expensive waste of time, the dissenting voices will get no traction, I've been going to meetings, both out of interest, and on behalf of others,  for forty-odd years.   Nothing relevant ever seems to eventuate.  I won't be wasting my time either.

[Huey]

1 hour ago, curious said:

Well I've had nothing from NZTR either as an owner, trainer or punter. Only that from the NZTA. And, I won't be wasting my time rocking up sorry. Been there done that.

I concur they are an utter waste of time!

[nomates]

2 hours ago, curious said:

The meeting will be attended by Bruce Sharrock, James Dunne, Tim Aldridge, Neil Jennings and Tyler Tane.
Note Amy Johnson will be attending the Wingatui and Riccarton meetings also.
Monday, 17 January – Wingatui and Riccarton
Thursday, 20 January – Awapuni
Thursday, 27 January – Auckland (venue TBC), Cambridge

Those interested in attending can email Mary.Burgess@nztr.co.nz by Monday 3 January

 

This appears to only have gone to members of the NZTA.

Do we really believe these are the meetings where the big decisions or plans are instigated or decisions made , these are the paying the lip service meetings , cynical i know , but we have had plenty of experience .

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Usually I'd say, ''new page, give em a go'' however, you guys are closer to it than I.......if that's correct and it's only gone to compliant members of the NZTA, then again, something stinks, if not, then you should rock up as NM alluded to and hold them to account.....shout out from the floor, you should see what happens when Wesfarmers have their AGM and hundreds of stockholders get animated.......it's on for young and old.....the board have nowhere to hide, so go for it I say and if their transparent and reformed you might, just might get a nice surprise....likely ? No.

Yeah , nah .

[nomates]

1 hour ago, curious said:

Well I've had nothing from NZTR either as an owner, trainer or punter. Only that from the NZTA. And, I won't be wasting my time rocking up sorry. Been there done that.

Go on , go , give them a chance .

[curious]

58 minutes ago, nomates said:

Go on , go , give them a chance .

If I go, they won't have much chance.

And I'll still get a little pie and and a free beer!

Edited January 4, 2022 by curious

[curious]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

Just a lot of fluffy stuff, with that awful comment ' elite trainers will not have to compete with the lower-cost model '  which has offended people at the track this morning, I can assure you.

 

Condescending is the word that comes to mind and it is not just folk down there that feel offended by that.

[nomates]

28 minutes ago, curious said:

If I go, they won't have much chance.

And I'll still get a little pie and and a free beer!

Grab i for me pls

[The Centaur]

On 4/01/2022 at 11:43 AM, Joe Bloggs said:

If that's the case Curious, it appears Petone has burned grass roots racing people, you're close to it, so I bow to your better judgement. I should have known better, the worlds just not what it once was. We only have two horses left in NZ, one we leased, she races tomorrow, was meant to be anything, her Mum had 14 foals, 12 won, hopefully she will finally put her best hoof forward and show the potential she is alluded to have.

The other a yearling will either go to your trainer Curious for her 2yo year, or come here and may be the last horse I ever train, or go to Lee Freedman. Chris Waller emailed us asking to train her sister, sadly she had to be put down after a botched veterinary procedure.......so, we are nearly done, how fucking sad is it that NZ has become the rag and bone man of world racing.......good luck with yours mate, in great hands....and showing it!

 

Hope your horse went OK.

Back in the day when I was owner/trainer it was much simpler not even a licence fee. THe clubs would send an account for fees including jockey. Right before a race I got a tap on the shoulder from the racing detective. "H..mm aah.. about these unpaid accounts"  No problem I replied ... minutes later the horse won at 40:1.  Phew!!!

[Joe Bloggs]

Ran 4th TC, only 3rd run of her life. Next start written all over her.

[Kihikihi Kid]

Who put this draft together - Name Them !!

What did this cost ??

Who paid ??

[Huey]

Surely this document opens the eyes of those in the industry to just how foolish , incompetent & inept the personnel producing strategy at NZTR  are? 

If it doesn't you can kiss the sport good bye sooner than anyone realised .

[The Centaur]

14 hours ago, Huey said:

Surely this document opens the eyes of those in the industry to just how foolish , incompetent & inept the personnel producing strategy at NZTR  are? 

If it doesn't you can kiss the sport good bye sooner than anyone realised .

Yes its incredible. I would have thought every effort made to attract hobby trainers. Instead possibly constitutionally illegal restraints placed on them. Many owners potter about with the odd horse then when its financially possible only then off to a pro trainer. 

I go along with the fact professional trainers employ apprentices and need support. But there are only a few that do that. Can someone tell of one local jockey who started with Te Akau and went through with them. Bosson started with Autridge before  Autridge trained for Te Akau. Their record with local apprentice jockeys is woeful to say the least.

[Muzza]

1 hour ago, The Centaur said:

Yes its incredible. I would have thought every effort made to attract hobby trainers. Instead possibly constitutionally illegal restraints placed on them. Many owners potter about with the odd horse then when its financially possible only then off to a pro trainer. 

I go along with the fact professional trainers employ apprentices and need support. But there are only a few that do that. Can someone tell of one local jockey who started with Te Akau and went through with them. Bosson started with Autridge before  Autridge trained for Te Akau. Their record with local apprentice jockeys is woeful to say the least.

Yes and of course the three top stables in Cambridge have 1 apprentice between them. it has been that way for some time.

[Joe Bloggs]

All take, no give,.......you know how it goes.

[The Centaur]

In the consultation document there isn't a distinction made between riding your horse or employing a trackrider. Not even a guideline how much a trackrider should be paid for a gallop. What the insurance factors are etc. Instead they focus on the idea everyone is a criminal until certified as not. The whole document is waste of time. 

[Chief Stipe]

If you review and compare both documents - the glossy picture laden brochure and the draft policy/rules/licensing changes you'll discover that there is a misalignment between the intentions of one and the actual rules in the other.

It isn't clear what they are trying to achieve.

Shouldn't the clear objective be to lower the barriers to entry at all levels of workers?

What I see is more barriers and obstacles.  No disrespect to Trainers but is training a horse rocket science?  Does it require industry approved qualifications?  I've been reading the obituaries for Rick Hore-Lacy of Redoutes Choice and Foxseal fame.  He trained 20 Group 1 wins but under the proposed regime wouldn't have even got a start in the game.  He bought some horses after a successful punt and read two books - "Feeding to Win" and Training to Win".  He quickly learnt that the key to success was keeping the horse fed,  happy and healthy.

That aside my career of being an active Owner acting as Stablehand is over.  I have to prove my competence and knowledge of horse handling in an interview with NZTR and be employed by a Trainer to get a license.

Anyone looking after a horse in training or in a licensed stable under the new rules will HAVE to be licensed.  Even feeding up. 

End result of all this - probably no improvement in standards but less trainers and horses racing.

[nomates]

4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

No disrespect to Trainers but is training a horse rocket science? 

Many would have you believe it .

 

5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

"Feeding to Win" and Training to Win".  He quickly learnt that the key to success was keeping the horse fed,  happy and healthy.

This is the real science to training racehorses . If you can get that part down pat it then comes down to the horse' ability .

[Joe Bloggs]

Ok gang, riddle me this? If say, Freda, Pitman, Carter, Nomates, Curious who have all held/hold a trainers licence were to interview Saundry/George before their employment and grilled them on their 'actual' practical knowledge of our industry do you think they would have passed muster and been offered employment at the Taj? In the positions they have now?......c'mon be honest, don't hold back, cards on the table.

[Tim Carter]

22 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Ok gang, riddle me this? If say, Freda, Pitman, Carter, Nomates, Curious who have all held/hold a trainers licence were to interview Saundry/George before their employment and grilled them on their 'actual' practical knowledge of our industry do you think they would have passed muster and been offered employment at the Taj? In the positions they have now?......c'mon be honest, don't hold back, cards on the table.

 There is no lower cost for anyone involved in Racing. Farriers, Chiropractor's , Vets , Feed Merchants,  etc continue to increase charges . The trainers hurting are the smaller trainers. The grass root people. The so called top trainers are charging plenty and they just pass it on to their clients. The powers that be  in Wellington want to  make it easier for them.  Instead of making it a level playing field Wellington draft up stupid proposals that will only force more good people out of the industry. 

[Guest Whyisit]

2 hours ago, The Centaur said:

In the consultation document there isn't a distinction made between riding your horse or employing a trackrider. Not even a guideline how much a trackrider should be paid for a gallop. What the insurance factors are etc. Instead they focus on the idea everyone is a criminal until certified as not. The whole document is waste of time. 

Transition from previous arrangements
We have a plan to transition all of our existing licenceholders into our new scheme, including some protections
for legacy privileges which will not be continued (such as riding horses without a riding licence).
We are therefore proposing a framework of transitional licences which will ensure that everyone who currently
holds a licence will be deemed to hold its appropriate equivalent from the moment the new arrangements come
into force.
There will be a grace period to enable people to ensure they are compliant with the new framework, but we will
require all licensees to be fully compliant with our new framework by 31 July 2023.

[nomates]

58 minutes ago, Tim Carter said:

 There is no lower cost for anyone involved in Racing. Farriers, Chiropractor's , Vets , Feed Merchants,  etc continue to increase charges . The trainers hurting are the smaller trainers. The grass root people. The so called top trainers are charging plenty and they just pass it on to their clients. The powers that be  in Wellington want to  make it easier for them.  Instead of making it a level playing field Wellington draft up stupid proposals that will only force more good people out of the industry. 

Exactly Tim . As per usual , they are attempting to build from the top down . They have never got it , still don't .