Kumara

[Doomed]

26 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Which is about 2,000 people.  Typical accountant - takes things literally.  But if you want to shift the goal posts the rooms at Ellerslie can accommodate 6,000 (that's fact not exaggeration) so you could have thousands on course and stuff all hugging the outside fence like they do at Kumara.

The thing is, these days everyone wants to be out on the grass in front of the stand, so they can be seen, and it doesn't matter if they can't see the horses. The big in field screen is so those on the grass can see the horses if they want to. You will notice very few in the stands with a good view of the races these days.

[Ludwig]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

Would love to see you and I am fingers crossed(though not confident) that we might get an extra day and be spread over ten days next year rather than the three racedays in five days currently being proposed

Agree 100% re the 'old' days  - Ellerslie on New Years day was such a highlight meeting(even if I was only watching on TV) as was the Trentham Carnival.  What the hell happened?

 

How did the meeting with Bernard and co go? Did you get any progress?

[nomates]

2 hours ago, Reefton said:

Agree 100% re the 'old' days  - Ellerslie on New Years day was such a highlight meeting(even if I was only watching on TV) as was the Trentham Carnival.  What the hell happened?

 

Couldn't wait for boxing day and new years day at Ellerslie on TV , and was a regular at Trentham for cup week from the age of 14 , wouldn't be able to move , the public stand , top and bottom , would be heaving , even the dedicated family area which was up by the 200 mtrs used to choka . Fantastic atmosphere and fantastic racing .

Now in the CD those days along with the old Bayer day have gone from being true ICONIC racedays to just another ho hum raceday . Even the Ellerslie races at this time of year , outside of Karaka Mills night , are just ho hum affairs .

I'm getting misty just thinking of the great times i used to have at the races .

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Which is about 2,000 people.  Typical accountant - takes things literally.  But if you want to shift the goal posts the rooms at Ellerslie can accommodate 6,000 (that's fact not exaggeration) so you could have thousands on course and stuff all hugging the outside fence like they do at Kumara.

I don't think you need to be an accountant to distinguish between space for 2000 and space for 6000 people. They hug the outside fence at Kumara because they want to be out there as close as possible to the action and the excitement, not occasionally peering down from some air-conditioned box in a white elephant of a stand.

[Reefton]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Which is about 2,000 people.  Typical accountant - takes things literally.  But if you want to shift the goal posts the rooms at Ellerslie can accommodate 6,000 (that's fact not exaggeration) so you could have thousands on course and stuff all hugging the outside fence like they do at Kumara.

You said you could fit the entire crowd from Kumara on one floor of the Ellerslie Public Stand then when I challenged you you tried to say the entire area of both Ellerslie Grandstands(incidentally both built using industry funds(the old Amenities Fund) that Kumara contributed to).  Whats more if you think Kumara only get 2000 people then you are living in fairyland(I will reserve my judgment re that).

But anyway even if they do only get 2000 based on a population of 700 that is almost three times their population through the gate.  So why doesn't Ellerslie get 4.5m people to their dump?  Even over the course of a season??

I wonder how many Kumara people caught flights to Auckland to attend Ellerslie yesterday because there was a shitload of Aucklanders on track at Kumara

Oncourse turnover on Saturday at Kumara $258,000 - that extrapolates out to oncourse for Ellerslie of about $552,636,000.  Think your heroes at the ARC might be a tad behind the eight ball?

Don't 'typical accountant' me

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Reefton

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Ludwig said:

How did the meeting with Bernard and co go? Did you get any progress?

That was me taking the mickey.  First thing I got asked at Omoto last Monday though - is Bernard coming to your meeting?

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Oncourse turnover on Saturday at Kumara $258,000 - that extrapolates out to oncourse for Ellerslie of about $552,636,000.  Think your heroes at the ARC might be a tad behind the eight ball?

Don't 'typical accountant' me

 

Yet you come back with a typical accounting metric of on-course turnover that is irrelevant.  The relevant metric is total turnover and the revenue return to the industry.  The cost to acquire a $1 of on-course turnover is considerably more than a $1 off-course.

Measuring the success of a race meeting, be it on the West Coast or at Ellerslie, by the number of people who attended is flawed and a pointless comparison.  The only outcome that on-course attendance may achieve is to attract someone new to the sport who may or may not invest or remain interested later. 

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, Reefton said:

But anyway even if they do only get 2000 based on a population of 700 that is almost three times their population through the gate.  So why doesn't Ellerslie get 4.5m people to their dump?  Even over the course of a season??

 

You don't do yourself any favours by calling Ellerslie a dump.   Reefton is hardly a 5 star entertainment venue (Ellerslie does have a successful Event Centre).

Both venues could have thousands on course having a great time, drinking and eating up large occasionally watching the horses go round but not even having a bet.

[Huey]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

 

Measuring the success of a race meeting, be it on the West Coast or at Ellerslie, by the number of people who attended is flawed and a pointless comparison.  The only outcome that on-course attendance may achieve is to attract someone new to the sport who may or may not invest or remain interested later. 

Probably more likely this occurs at a provincial meeting than at Ellerslie I'd have thought. 

CS are you saying Ellerslie are actually doing a great job for the industry?

 

[Chief Stipe]

55 minutes ago, curious said:

I don't think you need to be an accountant to distinguish between space for 2000 and space for 6000 people. They hug the outside fence at Kumara because they want to be out there as close as possible to the action and the excitement, not occasionally peering down from some air-conditioned box in a white elephant of a stand.

I've been to Kumara many times and if a decent sized crowd turns up you have nowhere to stand unless it is against the fence.  If I was going to the races to have a day out, drink and eat too much and get burnt to cinder yep I would hang around near the fence.  But if I wanted to have a day punting, not get burnt to a frizzle, have a beer or three out of the heat and to get a decent view of the horses in the parade ring and on the track then I'd choose Ellerslie everytime.

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, Huey said:

Probably more likely this occurs at a provincial meeting than at Ellerslie I'd have thought. 

CS are you saying Ellerslie are actually doing a great job for the industry?

 

No I'm not saying Ellerslie are doing a great job for the industry.  I'm particularly worried about their proposal to cash up and distort stakes while eliminating the other two tracks in Auckland.  Without another track in Auckland quite rapidly any new track development at Ellerslie will end up like the one they have now - stuffed.

What I am saying is measuring success on the number of people who attend on-course is a red-herring.  It is a hangover from the past when it did matter in terms of revenue to the industry.  It doesn't anymore.  The focus should be on quality tracks, quality fields and wagering revenue.

That's not to say that a holiday circuit like the West Coast shouldn't continue.  It has a place in the industry but don't forget that this year has been a rare one for the Coast weather wise.

[Doomed]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

No I'm not saying Ellerslie are doing a great job for the industry.  I'm particularly worried about their proposal to cash up and distort stakes while eliminating the other two tracks in Auckland.  Without another track in Auckland quite rapidly any new track development at Ellerslie will end up like the one they have now - stuffed.

What I am saying is measuring success on the number of people who attend on-course is a red-herring.  It is a hangover from the past when it did matter in terms of revenue to the industry.  It doesn't anymore.  The focus should be on quality tracks, quality fields and wagering revenue.

That's not to say that a holiday circuit like the West Coast shouldn't continue.  It has a place in the industry but don't forget that this year has been a rare one for the Coast weather wise.

On course attendance and turnover has always been considered a relevant factor in NZ Racing. That may have changed in recent years: whether that is a good thing probably depends on your perspective. It would be interesting to know the Ellerslie turnovers. I suspect Kumara probably topped them on and off course.

And remember the net benefit to the industry was probably greater at Kumara, and the other Coast meetings, than the net benefit from Karaka night. It takes a lot more turnover to fund a couple of $1m races that it does to fund mostly $12,000 races.

[Chief Stipe]

44 minutes ago, Doomed said:

I suspect Kumara probably topped them on and off course.

I doubt it.

45 minutes ago, Doomed said:

On course attendance and turnover has always been considered a relevant factor in NZ Racing.

Why?  It was different when Club revenue was tied more to on-course turnover.  It isn't now.  With new technology an increasing number of people are betting through the TAB App on-course.  Why leave your possie on the fence to go and queue behind a dollar each way pensioner? 

50 minutes ago, Doomed said:

And remember the net benefit to the industry was probably greater at Kumara, and the other Coast meetings, than the net benefit from Karaka night.

You assume there was a net benefit to the industry.

As for Karaka night it is based around two sweepstake races mostly funded through horse purchases.  NZTR shouldn't be topping up the stakes.  If Ellerslie do and can fund it out of their own money good on them.

Now the key for West Coast Clubs is what did they, the TAB or NZTR do to promote off-course turnover?  Then the question is if the West Coast Clubs did in fact bat above the average on total turnover will they be rewarded accordingly.

 

[Doomed]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I doubt it.

Why?  It was different when Club revenue was tied more to on-course turnover.  It isn't now.  With new technology an increasing number of people are betting through the TAB App on-course.  Why leave your possie on the fence to go and queue behind a dollar each way pensioner? 

You assume there was a net benefit to the industry.

As for Karaka night it is based around two sweepstake races mostly funded through horse purchases.  NZTR shouldn't be topping up the stakes.  If Ellerslie do and can fund it out of their own money good on them.

Now the key for West Coast Clubs is what did they, the TAB or NZTR do to promote off-course turnover?  Then the question is if the West Coast Clubs did in fact bat above the average on total turnover will they be rewarded accordingly.

 

NZTR actually puts $620,000 into the two sweepstakes. Which is more than their total contribution to the coast circuit. As you say, the sweepstakes should be self funding. NZ has a particularly unique approach to sweepstake races.

[Huey]

4 hours ago, Doomed said:

On course attendance and turnover has always been considered a relevant factor in NZ Racing. That may have changed in recent years: whether that is a good thing probably depends on your perspective. It would be interesting to know the Ellerslie turnovers. I suspect Kumara probably topped them on and off course.

And remember the net benefit to the industry was probably greater at Kumara, and the other Coast meetings, than the net benefit from Karaka night. It takes a lot more turnover to fund a couple of $1m races that it does to fund mostly $12,000 races.

The fact turnover is no longer released tells you everything you need to know I.e. the figures don't fit the agenda.

[Reefton]

Where do I start here?

9 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yet you come back with a typical accounting metric of on-course turnover that is irrelevant.  The relevant metric is total turnover and the revenue return to the industry.  The cost to acquire a $1 of on-course turnover is considerably more than a $1 off-course.

Measuring the success of a race meeting, be it on the West Coast or at Ellerslie, by the number of people who attended is flawed and a pointless comparison.  The only outcome that on-course attendance may achieve is to attract someone new to the sport who may or may not invest or remain interested later. 

So you are telling us on course turnover is a red herring?  So why don't we just forget about NZ Racing and just take the second leg from Busan or Golden Gate and be done with it?  Incidentally Kumara's total turnover was just on $2m so given the extra industry funds Auckland received I would expect proportionately at least $10m in turnover on that meeting.

You only say oncourse turnover and attendance is irrelevant because Ellerslie's was both proportionately and (no doubt) actually abysmal by comparison

9 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

You don't do yourself any favours by calling Ellerslie a dump.   Reefton is hardly a 5 star entertainment venue (Ellerslie does have a successful Event Centre).

Both venues could have thousands on course having a great time, drinking and eating up large occasionally watching the horses go round but not even having a bet.

The difference is Reefton paid for its own facilities where Ellerslie(like all the big Clubs) had the majority of it's buildings funded by the Amenities Fund in the old NZRA days.  So effectively Reefton paid part of Ellerslie's but Ellerslie paid not one effing cent for Reefton's.

But on the topic I have had the good fortune to attend as an owner Ellerslie(admittedly a few years back) Royal Randwick on QEII Stakes day and the Gold Coast.  Ellerslie trailed in a poor and distant third when it came to the facilities and treatment meted out.  As an owner in the Karaka Million 3yo race(when it was worth $100k not $1m) I went to the owners area and couldn't even get a decent beer.  I know they are a Lion outlet but there was not even a Corona in sight - only Speights and champagne neither of which I drink.  Our friend Mr Notts on the other channel who is a member of Reefton turned up there one day and specifically complimented me on the range of drinks available and assured me it was superior to anything Ellerslie put on.  To be fair we don't run our own bars so I cannot take credit for that and would have no idea what range of drinks are available - our Presidents room beer is our sponsored Wild Buck but it is free and the spongers seem to lap it up along with the free tucker we provide.

9 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I've been to Kumara many times and if a decent sized crowd turns up you have nowhere to stand unless it is against the fence.  If I was going to the races to have a day out, drink and eat too much and get burnt to cinder yep I would hang around near the fence.  But if I wanted to have a day punting, not get burnt to a frizzle, have a beer or three out of the heat and to get a decent view of the horses in the parade ring and on the track then I'd choose Ellerslie everytime.

I have been to Kumara probably 40 times and have certainly never struggled to find somewhere to stand nor had any issues getting a decent look at whatever I wanted to see. I will concede the big crowd can be a pain in the arse but food and drinks are readily available and the toilet situation is drastically improved from the days when there was a 100m queue.  i do not recall ever being 'burnt to a cinder' at Kumara.  Absolutely soaked to the skin on occasion but to get burnt to a cinder hop up to Reefton and we will see what we can do.

As far as Ellerslie's view of the nags pre race or on the course they are bloody miles away(like most city courses).  If you want to see the whites of their eyes head for the Coast(everyone says that)

9 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

No I'm not saying Ellerslie are doing a great job for the industry.  I'm particularly worried about their proposal to cash up and distort stakes while eliminating the other two tracks in Auckland.  Without another track in Auckland quite rapidly any new track development at Ellerslie will end up like the one they have now - stuffed.

 

They should sell effing Ellerslie and put some real money into their stakes.  it is without doubt the poorest returning asset in NZ racing(in terms of rate of return on its value).  I hesitate to say it for obvious reasons but if Brierley Investments in its heyday brought the NZ Racing Industry Ellerslie would be gone by Monday closely followed by all the other Big City courses returning piss all to the industry.  Pure economics that neither you nor the halfwits running the industry understand(or if they do they are ignoring them)

As far as stuffed goes well insofar as I am aware none of the Coast Course have suddenly developed a whopping great hole down the back straight(nor I might add had casual golfers wander into the path of a race field nor for that matter had vital camera footage not available because no camera was pointed in that direction)

9 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

What I am saying is measuring success on the number of people who attend on-course is a red-herring.  It is a hangover from the past when it did matter in terms of revenue to the industry.  It doesn't anymore.  The focus should be on quality tracks, quality fields and wagering revenue.

Crap!  As I say why not just concentrate on the next from Busan if you abandon the aim to get on course attendance

7 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I doubt it.

Why?  It was different when Club revenue was tied more to on-course turnover.  It isn't now.  With new technology an increasing number of people are betting through the TAB App on-course.  Why leave your possie on the fence to go and queue behind a dollar each way pensioner? 

You assume there was a net benefit to the industry.

As for Karaka night it is based around two sweepstake races mostly funded through horse purchases.  NZTR shouldn't be topping up the stakes.  If Ellerslie do and can fund it out of their own money good on them.

Now the key for West Coast Clubs is what did they, the TAB or NZTR do to promote off-course turnover?  Then the question is if the West Coast Clubs did in fact bat above the average on total turnover will they be rewarded accordingly.

 

You can doubt what you like Son.  The facts are the industry will have pumped hundred of thousands into yesterday's Ellerslie day and maybe $120k into Kumara.  Put up the turnover facts for Ellerslie and let us all assess the comparative return.

That new technology you talk about - well someone as big a know-all as you would know the TAB pick up phone betting on course now and include it in the oncourse turnover(maybe not immediately but the Clubs get a percentage).

And as far as what we might have done to promote offcourse turnover well what the bloody hell does Ellerslie do to promote off course turnover? There would be an effing sight more non racing people aware that Kumara was on this past weekend than would have known or cared that the ARC was running a day.

Kumara promotes off course betting simply by being Kumara

 

[Reefton]

For all that I reiterate (as I have at times before)  I have no beef with the ARC or any other big city Club.  A strong Auckland presence is absolutely critical to the NZ industry as is say a strong Christchurch presence to the South Island Industry.  What I object to is the implication they run superior(comparatively) operations and that somehow the wider industry should be eternally grateful to them.  They get to run the bigger days because they are subsidised by the income generated lower down the food chain pure and simple - they get a disproportionate share of the funds.

NZTR are about to release a further consultation document where - it seems likely -  they are going to make massive extra payments to these Clubs and it will just exacerbate the imbalance.  It is wrong wrong wrong in so many ways and nowhere else in business or sport is there such an unfair allocation of funding(don't point to the All Blacks because they are absolute world class and put bums on seats every time.  They earn their pay.

[Huey]

46 minutes ago, Reefton said:

For all that I reiterate (as I have at times before)  I have no beef with the ARC or any other big city Club.  A strong Auckland presence is absolutely critical to the NZ industry as is say a strong Christchurch presence to the South Island Industry.  What I object to is the implication they run superior(comparatively) operations and that somehow the wider industry should be eternally grateful to them.  They get to run the bigger days because they are subsidised by the income generated lower down the food chain pure and simple - they get a disproportionate share of the funds.

NZTR are about to release a further consultation document where - it seems likely -  they are going to make massive extra payments to these Clubs and it will just exacerbate the imbalance.  It is wrong wrong wrong in so many ways and nowhere else in business or sport is there such an unfair allocation of funding(don't point to the All Blacks because they are absolute world class and put bums on seats every time.  They earn their pay.

Eventually the money has to run out no matter what the strategy is from these people,  but perhaps that just shows the short sightness of our leadership or perhaps selfishness is the more appropriate word.

[Reefton]

22 minutes ago, Huey said:

Eventually the money has to run out no matter what the strategy is from these people,  but perhaps that just shows the short sightness of our leadership or perhaps selfishness is the more appropriate word.

The money running out is reflected on the facilities everyone is complaining about.  30 years ago when the Racing Authority had a huge Amenities Fund the Wellington Racing Club(say) would trot along and say 'we need x amount of money to build a new Stand' and they would get all or most of it.  Now there is no fund left they are unable to replace those aging and delapidated assets and hence the complaints about facilities.  The CJC may(and I am guessing here) be in that boat with their public stand - insufficient insurance proceeds to build something suitable and no money of their own so they are hamstrung.  Ironically I imagine the Amenities Fund would have helped freehold Riccarton many years ago and then the CJC would be getting all the money out of that housing development not Ngai Tahu -hindsight is a wonderful thing however.

Contrast that to the Clubs that never received Amenities Fund monies - they have been forced to carefully look after what they have and hence for instance Reefton having a stand that is 130 years old and still perfectly fit for purpose(and stood through two massive earthquakes - 1929 Murchison and 1968 Inangahua - I might add - though it has been strengthened after the roof blew off many years back).  Ditto our stabling block and our admin block was built in the 80's from our(and the Trotting and Rugby Club's) own funds and sweat.  We mightn't have much but we paid for what we have ourselves and we look after it.

Two wrongs don't make a right but when we now have the Racing Act trying to steal our hard won assets it pisses me off.

[Chief Stipe]

9 hours ago, Reefton said:

So you are telling us on course turnover is a red herring?

Yes.

9 hours ago, Reefton said:

So why don't we just forget about NZ Racing and just take the second leg from Busan or Golden Gate and be done with it?

No need to be facetious.  The reality is that those races are providing low cost revenue however they don't offer opportunities for NZ trained horses to race.  If you neglect that at the expense of trying to get more people on-course and in the process of competing with every other entertainment option in town then we fail.  One of the reasons NZ Racing lost its way is because it thought and still thinks that it can compete with those other entertainment options hence the huge investment in grand facilities for on-course patrons.  That investment should have been and should be directed to providing good racing surfaces providing high quality competitive racing that attracts punting revenue.

10 hours ago, Reefton said:

Incidentally Kumara's total turnover was just on $2m so given the extra industry funds Auckland received I would expect proportionately at least $10m in turnover on that meeting.

Let it go @Reefton your comparison is spurious at best.  I've already said many many times that the money invested in grand facilities or any public facilities is a waste of time especially if done at the expense of not investing in the racetrack.  The key metric is how much was the total turnover.  Theoretically Kumara was on equal footing with Awapuni on the day - did they out do Awapuni in turnover?  Kumara had an advantage because they had two extra races.  I doubt that Kumara would have had more turnover than Ellerslie on the Sunday even though the latter had only 8 races.   

I note with some amusement that you have frequently called Kumara a shit hole as often as Ellerslie.  What odds are you offering that next year the meeting will be either:

1. Abandoned;
2. Transferred to the AWT at Riccarton;
3. Run on a bottomless Heavy 15.

Those options are not based on the grandness of the stands but the quality of the track.

10 hours ago, Reefton said:

You only say oncourse turnover and attendance is irrelevant because Ellerslie's was both proportionately and (no doubt) actually abysmal by comparison

No that's not why I say it is irrelevant.  You seem to assume that I have a bias towards Ellerslie over the West Coast.  If you had put your confirmation bias to one side you will have seen that I have been a vociferous supporter of Coast racing.  The point is my focus is on the key metrics not some spurious population based comparison.  Probably 95% of the population of Kumara attended their race day- all 295 of them plus 14 dogs and 3 pet possums.

10 hours ago, Reefton said:

The difference is Reefton paid for its own facilities where Ellerslie(like all the big Clubs) had the majority of it's buildings funded by the Amenities Fund in the old NZRA days.  So effectively Reefton paid part of Ellerslie's but Ellerslie paid not one effing cent for Reefton's.

Let it go @Reefton.  It's the past - done and dusted.  Look forward.  Although you are fudging things just tad.

10 hours ago, Reefton said:

But on the topic I have had the good fortune to attend as an owner Ellerslie(admittedly a few years back) Royal Randwick on QEII Stakes day and the Gold Coast.  Ellerslie trailed in a poor and distant third when it came to the facilities and treatment meted out.  As an owner in the Karaka Million 3yo race(when it was worth $100k not $1m) I went to the owners area and couldn't even get a decent beer.  I know they are a Lion outlet but there was not even a Corona in sight - only Speights and champagne neither of which I drink.  Our friend Mr Notts on the other channel who is a member of Reefton turned up there one day and specifically complimented me on the range of drinks available and assured me it was superior to anything Ellerslie put on.  To be fair we don't run our own bars so I cannot take credit for that and would have no idea what range of drinks are available - our Presidents room beer is our sponsored Wild Buck but it is free and the spongers seem to lap it up along with the free tucker we provide.

Congratulations Reeton outdid Ellerslie in terms of hospitality but what impact did the hospitality have on turnover?

10 hours ago, Reefton said:

They should sell effing Ellerslie and put some real money into their stakes.  it is without doubt the poorest returning asset in NZ racing(in terms of rate of return on its value).

An accounting metric and a poor one at that.  Don't forget Avondale.  

10 hours ago, Reefton said:

You can doubt what you like Son.  The facts are the industry will have pumped hundred of thousands into yesterday's Ellerslie day and maybe $120k into Kumara.  Put up the turnover facts for Ellerslie and let us all assess the comparative return.

Now finally we are getting somewhere even if you are being patronising Uncle Brian.  Yes lets see the comparative return - we used to get that on a regular basis from Mr Purcell until someone drove him out of the country.  Saundry tells us NOTHING!!!

THIS IS A KEY METRIC.

To get this information we now have to ring around and find out.  Perhaps you could use your contacts and get Kumara's and ring a mate in Auckland and get Ellerslie's.

10 hours ago, Reefton said:

That new technology you talk about - well someone as big a know-all as you would know the TAB pick up phone betting on course now and include it in the oncourse turnover(maybe not immediately but the Clubs get a percentage).

Which achieves what?  It adds cost to achieve what?  All it does is further skews returns to the big clubs.  How many people turn up to Kumara when the weather is crap?  

10 hours ago, Reefton said:

And as far as what we might have done to promote offcourse turnover well what the bloody hell does Ellerslie do to promote off course turnover? There would be an effing sight more non racing people aware that Kumara was on this past weekend than would have known or cared that the ARC was running a day.

Probably Ellerslie does nothing to promote turnover.  It used to be the role of TAB NZ - now it is the role of NZTR.  NZTR seem to be doing everything they can to reduce turnover through poor race programming.  

Instead of bitching about how mean history has been to Reefton why don't you get together with your West Coast administrators, get some sponsorship and offer a prize that can be won by someone who bets on the West Coast meeting.  A free trip and accommodation to attend the iconic Kumara race meeting.  Think outside the square.

[Chief Stipe]

41 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Two wrongs don't make a right but when we now have the Racing Act trying to steal our hard won assets it pisses me off.

Then make it hard for them to "steal our hard won assets"!  Focus on turnover - getting full fields.  Work together to avoid abandonment's.  The odds are that at least one meeting next year will be hit by a weather bomb (unheard of to get 3 La Nina's in a row).  What are the contingencies?  Shift a meeting from one venue to another on the Coast - shift it to the AWT at Riccarton with the commitment that the circuit still happens.  Doesn't take long for a track on the Coast to come right after rain.  Engage as a collective with the pricks at HQ.  Promote and publicly publish your proposals.  Make it damn hard for HQ to cancel you.

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

Eventually the money has to run out no matter what the strategy is from these people,  but perhaps that just shows the short sightness of our leadership or perhaps selfishness is the more appropriate word.

Shortsightedness , no , blind .