Well Done Pitty!!

[Chief Stipe]

23 hours ago, Reefton said:

And as far as the Canterbury Belle coming out of a Geraldine race I don't recall the Geraldine race so it cannot have been too much of a highlight.  Sad for Geraldine to have shut down but they are not the only one

It was the Geraldine Challenge Stakes - a Stakes race for 3yr old's run early in the new season.  Canterbury Belle won it by five lengths in 1984.  The race figures in many a fine pedigree.  The Grand Dam of So You Think ran second in it.  Lomondy another.  Seascay's dam ran 3rd in it.  Essentially it attracted the same class of horses that raced in the Canterbury Belle Stakes in that era. 

It was run at Orari racecourse - the home of the mighty Grey Way.

The Harness code had a Group 3 race called the Orari Challenge Stakes for 3yr old's - it also attracted eventual top line 3yr olds.

 

[Chief Stipe]

21 hours ago, Doomed said:

The Geraldine fillies race was a big thing in its day, won by Powley I think amongst others.

 

Yes it was won by Powley.  One of my favourite horses of the early 80's.  She won it in 1980 and two starts later beating Glamour Bay by a head in the 1000 Guineas.  Orari was a fairly decent track and looking back there were good lead up races in both islands at "lesser" tracks to the bigger Group events in the late Spring/early Summer.

[Doomed]

6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

It was the Geraldine Challenge Stakes - a Stakes race for 3yr old's run early in the new season.  Canterbury Belle won it by five lengths in 1984.  The race figures in many a fine pedigree.  The Grand Dam of So You Think ran second in it.  Lomondy another.  Seascay's dam ran 3rd in it.  Essentially it attracted the same class of horses that raced in the Canterbury Belle Stakes in that era. 

It was run at Orari racecourse - the home of the mighty Grey Way.

The Harness code had a Group 3 race called the Orari Challenge Stakes for 3yr old's - it also attracted eventual top line 3yr olds.

 

Grey Way was trained at Washdyke, won his 50th race I think at Orari.

One of the better horses rained at Orari would have been Flying View, the Telegraph winner.

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Grey Way was trained at Washdyke, won his 50th race I think at Orari.

Yes that's correct.  I got mixed up with Lionel Pratt who trained there and was associated with the early education of Bob and Bill Skelton.

[Doomed]

10 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yes that's correct.  I got mixed up with Lionel Pratt who trained there and was associated with the early education of Bob and Bill Skelton.

Lionel of course trained Flying View

[Rangatira]

41 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I got mixed up with Lionel Pratt 

Any relation to Arthur Pratt?

[Reefton]

5 hours ago, Doomed said:

Lionel of course trained Flying View

Flying View won the 1400m at Reefton then went on to win the Telegraph next start

[Reefton]

13 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

It was the Geraldine Challenge Stakes - a Stakes race for 3yr old's run early in the new season.  Canterbury Belle won it by five lengths in 1984.  The race figures in many a fine pedigree.  The Grand Dam of So You Think ran second in it.  Lomondy another.  Seascay's dam ran 3rd in it.  Essentially it attracted the same class of horses that raced in the Canterbury Belle Stakes in that era. 

It was run at Orari racecourse - the home of the mighty Grey Way.

The Harness code had a Group 3 race called the Orari Challenge Stakes for 3yr old's - it also attracted eventual top line 3yr olds.

 

So it was a three year old fillies race that does not exist any more.  It does not necessarily follow that the CJC pinched it.  Not like the Timaru Stakes that is a blatant grab.  The world has changed(admittedly not necessarily for the better) .  Your mate Big Dave would have something to say about having to sent his expensive three year old fillies down to Geraldine for a run(and he seems to control an awful lot of what happens in the spring down here)

I think Tui's Lass was a half sister to Lomondy's mother Loma Lass she wasn't Lomondy's mother but some VERY nice horses won it true enough during its short life.

Colada that won it in 76 - I remember her first win - paid $200 to win.  Interesting about the demise of SI breeding - of the ten runnings only three winners were by NI domiciled stallions.  And the South Isalnd stallions included Beaufort Sea Noble Bijou Gate Keeper and Palatable - nice bunch of achievers for the South there.

 

 

[Reefton]

On 18/03/2022 at 11:38 AM, Doomed said:

Yes, a bit bizarre the old Bayer going to Trentham and Levin getting a Wgtn hand me down in return. Although we don't really need any more group 1s at Otaki, not a good look.

The Geraldine fillies race was a big thing in its day, won by Powley I think amongst others.

The Couplands took over from the Chruchill because that race was already a listed or group race and therefore able to be upgraded quickly.

Not just the Bayer though - they got the Oaks off another Club too.

Bear in mind race name changes are not uncommon(re the Churchill to the Couplands).  They renamed the Homeby to the Koral didn't they?(or was it the Lincoln?) Whichever one Koral won it seven times didn't he?  Great horse

[Doomed]

10 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Not just the Bayer though - they got the Oaks off another Club too.

Bear in mind race name changes are not uncommon(re the Churchill to the Couplands).  They renamed the Homeby to the Koral didn't they?(or was it the Lincoln?) Whichever one Koral won it seven times didn't he?  Great horse

The Homeby was a ChCh Hunt Club race. The Koral replaced the Lincoln

[Doomed]

17 minutes ago, Reefton said:

So it was a three year old fillies race that does not exist any more.  It does not necessarily follow that the CJC pinched it.  Not like the Timaru Stakes that is a blatant grab.  The world has changed(admittedly not necessarily for the better) .  Your mate Big Dave would have something to say about having to sent his expensive three year old fillies down to Geraldine for a run(and he seems to control an awful lot of what happens in the spring down here)

I think Tui's Lass was a half sister to Lomondy's mother Loma Lass she wasn't Lomondy's mother but some VERY nice horses won it true enough during its short life.

Colada that won it in 76 - I remember her first win - paid $200 to win.  Interesting about the demise of SI breeding - of the ten runnings only three winners were by NI domiciled stallions.  And the South Isalnd stallions included Beaufort Sea Noble Bijou Gate Keeper and Palatable - nice bunch of achievers for the South there.

 

 

The 3yo fillies race and the F&Ms race at Geraldine were both listed races that moved to Riccarton, so just like the Timaru Stakes. Although I think Timaru couldn't afford to hold their race anymore. It was originally the Timaru Herald Stakes and over 1,200m. Won by the northern filly Trotanoy once I think.

[Freda]

9 hours ago, Reefton said:

Flying View won the 1400m at Reefton then went on to win the Telegraph next start

Ridden by Shane Laming.......!

[Chief Stipe]

10 hours ago, Reefton said:

Your mate Big Dave would have something to say about having to sent his expensive three year old fillies down to Geraldine for a run(and he seems to control an awful lot of what happens in the spring down here)

Your bias and snarkiness causes you to miss the point.

There were patterns for 2 and 3 year olds in BOTH islands leading to the elite races.

Now the South Island has a mess and the Guineas are dominated by the North.

You knock Te Akau yet they didn't join your so called Mafia from the North clamouring to get the Guineas moved north.  However if Riccarton don't sort their race and traiming track issues out I wouldn't count on their support much longer.

BTW quite an achievement to get the First 4 in a Group 1 yesterday was it not?

[Freda]

31 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

 

BTW quite an achievement to get the First 4 in a Group 1 yesterday was it not?

Outstanding.  Young Jamie must be the best trainer around by a country mile.

[Reefton]

12 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Your bias and snarkiness causes you to miss the point.

There were patterns for 2 and 3 year olds in BOTH islands leading to the elite races.

Now the South Island has a mess and the Guineas are dominated by the North.

You knock Te Akau yet they didn't join your so called Mafia from the North clamouring to get the Guineas moved north.  However if Riccarton don't sort their race and traiming track issues out I wouldn't count on their support much longer.

BTW quite an achievement to get the First 4 in a Group 1 yesterday was it not?

Indeed.  However divide the stake by the purchase price and do the calculation.  I never said the are not a good operation(Jamie is a great young bloke and his parents are friends of ours from way back).  

I am not snarky at all.  You by pointedly not extending richly deserved to congratulations to the bloke mentioned in the title of this thread and by continuing an unhealthy fascination with the Riccarton track and it's 'shortcomings' are the snarky one.

From South Island racing's point of view losing the Guineas races would make f-all difference from where I sit  - they are and generally have been North Island benefits from day one.  Not too many southern winners of either

Little Brown Jug Gaffa Clansman Hustler  Random Chance not sure of any others out of 49(?) renewals.  Powley Canterbury bell and maybe Tartan Tights)(?)

Better for the South to develop its own two and three year old programmes

 

 

 

[Reefton]

11 hours ago, Freda said:

Outstanding.  Young Jamie must be the best trainer around by a country mile.

Well bred

[Freda]

On 20/03/2022 at 9:25 PM, Reefton said:

Indeed.  However divide the stake by the purchase price and do the calculation.  I never said they are not a good operation (Jamie is a great young bloke and his parents are friends of ours from way back).  

 

Better for the South to develop its own two and three year old programmes

 

 

 

Agree completely. 

Will make no difference whatsoever for the once-a-year party goer,   and it might be possible to get a more co-ordinated and balanced flow of races throughout the season.

[Chief Stipe]

On 20/03/2022 at 9:25 PM, Reefton said:

However divide the stake by the purchase price and do the calculation.

What's your point?  Surely the key calculation is their return vs the industry average.

On 20/03/2022 at 9:25 PM, Reefton said:

an unhealthy fascination with the Riccarton track and it's 'shortcomings'

Is it really an unhealthy fascination?  Isn't it more unhealthy to turn a blind eye in public yet continue to pitch up on poor training and racing tracks, not say anything and expect things to change.  However I note some are quick to speak out when it directly affects their own self interest.

On 20/03/2022 at 9:25 PM, Reefton said:

From South Island racing's point of view losing the Guineas races would make f-all difference from where I sit  - they are and generally have been North Island benefits from day one.  Not too many southern winners of either

Yeah do away with Cup Week completely afterall it is just a party for all the once a year tossers and they don't serve the beer you like anyway.  Yep a really progressive move.  Won't fix the track though will it?

On 20/03/2022 at 9:25 PM, Reefton said:

Little Brown Jug Gaffa Clansman Hustler  Random Chance not sure of any others out of 49(?) renewals.  Powley Canterbury bell and maybe Tartan Tights)(?)

Isn't that a reflection of the state South Island racing and the focus of South Island Trainers?  Every trainer not matter their domicile has the same opportunity to target iconic age group races.

On 20/03/2022 at 9:25 PM, Reefton said:

Better for the South to develop its own two and three year old programmes

Agreed - but who are the people on the programming committees?  Surely they could help bring about positive change.  Although it must be getting harder to programme with the diminishing number of good racing surfaces in the South Island.

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

Agree completely. 

Will make no difference whatsoever for the once-a-year party goer,   and it might be possible to get a more co-ordinated and balanced flow of races throughout the season.

Start speaking up @Freda - lobby your local programming committee!!

Shame you are flying the white flag with regard to the Guineas moving.  I guess fields of broken hacks and poorly bred plodders will be attractive to some punters.

[Huey]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Start speaking up @Freda - lobby your local programming committee!!

 

Best of luck with that! 

[Chief Stipe]

Then just roll over and take it until it hurts or there is no one left.