Embarrassing

[Reefton]

4 hours ago, Freda said:

 I think Andre Klein may have been the glue that tied it all together.   For now,  Jo Gordon does a great job for several clubs behind the scenes - as if she isn't busy enough.

I was going to say how Jo Gordon fills that role for all those clubs on top of all her other commitments.  Probably rides all her own trackwork as well given the staff shortages.  And she is not the only female trainer down there stretching herself like a shanghai with more than one job and a ton of horses to look after.

You would have to absolutely love horses to do it and that is what NZTR's idiots simply do not appreciate.  So many of those guys are holding on by a thread (enthusiasm wise) and it that thread snaps.....

I know you too wonder why you bother sometimes Pam and yours is yet another example.  This game is made up of a lot more than TA and its million dollar purchases(not that I am knocking anyone brave enough to go buying and marketing those sorts of animals but there is a lot more to this game than purely commercial considerations)

 

[Chief Stipe]

16 minutes ago, Reefton said:

This game is made up of a lot more than TA and its million dollar purchases(not that I am knocking anyone brave enough to go buying and marketing those sorts of animals but there is a lot more to this game than purely commercial considerations)

Yes, it is made up of "more than Te Akau and its million-dollar purchases".  Arguably the likes of TA and Chris Waller are no less passionate about racing horses than any other horse trainer.

However, the issue is that there HASN'T been a focus on the commercial considerations of the industry/business of racing horses.  Sucking owners dry of their cash with the promise of the "excitement of racing and winning" has always been unsustainable when the returns from winning are so poor.  

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yes, it is made up of "more than Te Akau and its million-dollar purchases".  Arguably the likes of TA and Chris Waller are no less passionate about racing horses than any other horse trainer.

However, the issue is that there HASN'T been a focus on the commercial considerations of the industry/business of racing horses.  Sucking owners dry of their cash with the promise of the "excitement of racing and winning" has always been unsustainable when the returns from winning are so poor.  

Really to be fair even if owners were treated like royalty by the powers that be the overall racing concept is going to suck them dry financially in the end.  There is an average of say nine horses per race and only one winner so a lot more disappointment than triumph.

And yes I am sure Waller and TA are passionate but they operate in a different way.  Both are businesses structured(and very very well too) to operate at the top end of the racing market.  That is enticing rich people to invest in horses and try their luck.  No issue with that but as I have said before I wouldn't mind knowing the owner turnover statistics for them - ie there are vastly more duds than there are Nature Strips or Melody Belles and neither are cheap to deal with.  The latter is the owners call but, unless there is half a leg of a Winx involved, then I think people would get the stitch quite quickly(been there done that with TA although I was aware of what I was getting myself into and did not expect it to be cheap - and it wasn't).

For all that running the operations they do and attaining the success they do one has to greatly admire both TA and especially Chris Waller.  He went from a battling NZ operator to heights unscaled in Aussie and probably world racing and deserves all the accolades he gets

 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Reefton

[Turny]

10 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Really to be fair even if owners were treated like royalty by the powers that be the overall racing concept is going to suck them dry financially in the end.  There is an average of say nine horses per race and only one winner so a lot more disappointment than triumph.

And yes I am sure Waller and TA are passionate but they operate in a different way.  Both are businesses structured(and very very well too) to operate at the top end of the racing market.  That is enticing rich people to invest in horses and try their luck.  No issue with that but as I have said before I wouldn't mind knowing the owner turnover statistics for them - ie there are vastly more duds than there are Nature Strips or Melody Belles and neither are cheap to deal with.  The latter is the owners call but, unless there is half a leg of a Winx involved, then I think people would get the stitch quite quickly(been there done that with TA although I was aware of what I was getting myself into and did not expect it to be cheap - and it wasn't).

For all that running the operations they do and attaining the success they do one has to greatly admire both TA and especially Chris Waller.  He went from a battling NZ operator to heights unscaled in Aussie and probably world racing and deserves all the accolades he gets

 

 

Interesting Reefton, one of the things I continually read on Aussie websites is how Waller is unparalleled in placing horses, they continue to say this is his greatest asset, closely followed by regular resting away from the stables (mental health aspect). Surely can train that's for sure but has broken away from the mold and is different in animal management aspects

I find it all very interesting

[Doomed]

2 hours ago, Turny said:

Interesting Reefton, one of the things I continually read on Aussie websites is how Waller is unparalleled in placing horses, they continue to say this is his greatest asset, closely followed by regular resting away from the stables (mental health aspect). Surely can train that's for sure but has broken away from the mold and is different in animal management aspects

I find it all very interesting

The big advantage they have in Australia is the multiple layers of racing and the ability to place horses. It is something we have never mastered in NZ, despite our so called tiered racing. I am always amazed at the number of horses Annabel Neasham has going around in low key Sunday races in Queensland, and of course Waller had two in the Rockhampton Cup.

Kevin Myers is happy to travel about with his horses and I always used to be impressed at the way Jamie Richards used to support Wairoa and Gisborne.  Sadly, the opportunity for that sort of placement and providing something a bit different for owners and horses doesn't really exist much anymore.

[Turny]

Agree Doomed, Annabel now races them far and wide, just like Waller does but her record of City wins first up with ponies that win in the lesser meetings not quite as good as Wallers, but clearly she is using his pathway of placing horses, wish them both well as doing things differently

 

[Reefton]

3 hours ago, Turny said:

Interesting Reefton, one of the things I continually read on Aussie websites is how Waller is unparalleled in placing horses, they continue to say this is his greatest asset, closely followed by regular resting away from the stables (mental health aspect). Surely can train that's for sure but has broken away from the mold and is different in animal management aspects

I find it all very interesting

Whatever that man's supreme talent(s) is or are the major one must be management.   Astonishingly good systems in place.  To deal with that many horses it must be absolutely regimented and he must have some superb Lieutenants. 

[Freda]

14 hours ago, Reefton said:

Whatever that man's supreme talent(s) is or are the major one must be management.   Astonishingly good systems in place.  To deal with that many horses it must be absolutely regimented and he must have some superb Lieutenants. 

Yes, man management in those operations has to be good, and his must be outstanding.    Delegation is a skill in itself, not always recognised.  He has been so successful for so long, it is no accident.

The 'mental health' aspect referred to by Turny I found interesting however...do not many trainers do similar, given the limitations/advantages of their location?

I know many who will allow their horses paddock time - a weekend away from the stable routine, or similar - post-race, and where farms or agistment facilities are reasonably close, send their horses for a break, regularly.   One comment attributed to K Myers, after a racemeeting and long drive home, was  ' salad tonight, fellas ' and into one of his many good paddocks they went, to stay on good pasture for as long as the boss deemed suitable.

Chris Waller, as a Kiwi from a fairly rural area, would be only too aware of the value of such management - but certainly isn't the only one to be so.    

[Turny]

11 minutes ago, Freda said:

Yes, man management in those operations has to be good, and his must be outstanding.    Delegation is a skill in itself, not always recognised.  He has been so successful for so long, it is no accident.

The 'mental health' aspect referred to by Turny I found interesting however...do not many trainers do similar, given the limitations/advantages of their location?

I know many who will allow their horses paddock time - a weekend away from the stable routine, or similar - post-race, and where farms or agistment facilities are reasonably close, send their horses for a break, regularly.   One comment attributed to K Myers, after a racemeeting and long drive home, was  ' salad tonight, fellas ' and into one of his many good paddocks they went, to stay on good pasture for as long as the boss deemed suitable.

Chris Waller, as a Kiwi from a fairly rural area, would be only too aware of the value of such management - but certainly isn't the only one to be so.    

What I have read, a number of times, is that after a hard race, the horses are de shoed, fully rugged and complete with full lower leg bandages and on Dr Green for 2 days then formula food for 2 days then back to the stable. Probably given iron supplements as well, but essentially Dr Green. Not alone in doing this but I read where is programme is very different. I find the full rugging and leg bandages interesting and assume the rugging is a bee sting protective probably with repellant on it. The lower leg bandages, with artificial ice formulas I fully get as Aussie trainers use them daily and rare to see a horse walk into Flemington stables on Race day without them

[Chief Stipe]

57 minutes ago, Turny said:

What I have read, a number of times, is that after a hard race, the horses are de shoed, fully rugged and complete with full lower leg bandages and on Dr Green for 2 days then formula food for 2 days then back to the stable. Probably given iron supplements as well, but essentially Dr Green. Not alone in doing this but I read where is programme is very different. I find the full rugging and leg bandages interesting and assume the rugging is a bee sting protective probably with repellant on it. The lower leg bandages, with artificial ice formulas I fully get as Aussie trainers use them daily and rare to see a horse walk into Flemington stables on Race day without them

Waller regularly takes his horses the next couple of days after a race to the beach for a swim.  Ice baths straight after a race.

[Reefton]

5 hours ago, Freda said:

Yes, man management in those operations has to be good, and his must be outstanding.    Delegation is a skill in itself, not always recognised.  He has been so successful for so long, it is no accident.

The 'mental health' aspect referred to by Turny I found interesting however...do not many trainers do similar, given the limitations/advantages of their location?

I know many who will allow their horses paddock time - a weekend away from the stable routine, or similar - post-race, and where farms or agistment facilities are reasonably close, send their horses for a break, regularly.   One comment attributed to K Myers, after a racemeeting and long drive home, was  ' salad tonight, fellas ' and into one of his many good paddocks they went, to stay on good pasture for as long as the boss deemed suitable.

Chris Waller, as a Kiwi from a fairly rural area, would be only too aware of the value of such management - but certainly isn't the only one to be so.    

I guess part of his success story means he is able to access paddocks for the horses - a battling operator may not be so lucky(either through not having the contacts or not being able to afford it).  And you wonder if all the horses get that treatment or just the Nature Strips and Winx's of the world.  It would certainly be a circus of floats going here and there if every horse in the stable got a trip to the paddock for a day or two after a race.

The mental aspect of it though Pam (in a different way) - in the old days a walk around the chute at Riccarton(long gone I know), maybe swimming and/or a trip to the beach and also we regularly hear of schooling sessions switching them on when they appear to have lost enthusiasm.  I remember my days forty years ago with one Maurice Carl Thornley - he was always thinking of ways to get one mentally revitalised.  Even the straight out sprinter Hi Roona used to jump the odd pony hurdle to make life interesting and he also used to take horses to a swimming pool(McLaughlins at Pound Road?) long before one was installed at Riccarton.  

Snow Lupton rounding up cattle with Kiwi(my Uncle used to regularly use his handy horse Cappiemore for the same thing - didn't do much for the cattle's mental health but the horse enjoyed a wander though the trees and forest and a chase after some mad cow trying to escape the roundup!) 

 

[Freda]

50 minutes ago, Reefton said:

I guess part of his success story means he is able to access paddocks for the horses - a battling operator may not be so lucky(either through not having the contacts or not being able to afford it).  And you wonder if all the horses get that treatment or just the Nature Strips and Winx's of the world.  It would certainly be a circus of floats going here and there if every horse in the stable got a trip to the paddock for a day or two after a race.

The mental aspect of it though Pam (in a different way) - in the old days a walk around the chute at Riccarton(long gone I know), maybe swimming and/or a trip to the beach and also we regularly hear of schooling sessions switching them on when they appear to have lost enthusiasm.  I remember my days forty years ago with one Maurice Carl Thornley - he was always thinking of ways to get one mentally revitalised.  Even the straight out sprinter Hi Roona used to jump the odd pony hurdle to make life interesting and he also used to take horses to a swimming pool(McLaughlins at Pound Road?) long before one was installed at Riccarton.  

Snow Lupton rounding up cattle with Kiwi(my Uncle used to regularly use his handy horse Cappiemore for the same thing - didn't do much for the cattle's mental health but the horse enjoyed a wander though the trees and forest and a chase after some mad cow trying to escape the roundup!) 

 

Yep, spot on.   I remember McLaughlin's pool..!    Hi Roona did a lot - practically all - of his work round the chute, as a very hard puller indeed he was nearly impossible to pacework but would canter quite kindly round the chute and pop over cavaletti in the pony cub grounds.

Some still go to the beach regularly from here, easier if you have own float, an expensive exercise if transporters are used.  Also, not too far away is a forest area [ West Melton ] dedicated to horses and some also go there for a hack through the trees.

Getting rid of the chute/pony club was an own goal for sure...as was/is the reduction of available training tracks from 13 to 3 in the premier Sth Island training centre.

[Freda]

Just now, Freda said:

Yep, spot on.   I remember McLaughlin's pool..!    Hi Roona did a lot - practically all - of his work round the chute, as a very hard puller indeed he was nearly impossible to pacework but would canter quite kindly round the chute and pop over cavaletti in the pony cub grounds.

Some still go to the beach regularly from here, easier if you have own float, an expensive exercise if transporters are used.  Also, not too far away is a forest area [ West Melton ] dedicated to horses and some also go there for a hack through the trees.

Getting rid of the chute/pony club was an own goal for sure...as was/is the reduction of available training tracks from 13 to 3 in the premier Sth Island training centre.

Sorry, four.  Forgot the 'new' grass gallop.

[billy connolly]

2 hours ago, Reefton said:

I remember my days forty years ago with one Maurice Carl Thornley - he was always thinking of ways to get one mentally revitalised.  Even the straight out sprinter Hi Roona used to jump the odd pony hurdle to make life interesting and he also used to take horses to a swimming pool (McLaughlins at Pound Road?) long before one was installed at Riccarton.

Thornley knew a bit about paddling in ponds, paddled in plenty himself !

[Doomed]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

Yep, spot on.   I remember McLaughlin's pool..!    Hi Roona did a lot - practically all - of his work round the chute, as a very hard puller indeed he was nearly impossible to pacework but would canter quite kindly round the chute and pop over cavaletti in the pony cub grounds.

Some still go to the beach regularly from here, easier if you have own float, an expensive exercise if transporters are used.  Also, not too far away is a forest area [ West Melton ] dedicated to horses and some also go there for a hack through the trees.

Getting rid of the chute/pony club was an own goal for sure...as was/is the reduction of available training tracks from 13 to 3 in the premier Sth Island training centre.

What is the chute you refer to? I always think of the chute as the 1,200m start. Was there another one as well? Sadly most of the surrounds at Riccarton are now housing. At least that explains why the club is now able to boost all of their stakes for low key meetings: I assume that will happen soon as the money comes in for all of the housing.

[Reefton]

9 minutes ago, Doomed said:

What is the chute you refer to? I always think of the chute as the 1,200m start. Was there another one as well? Sadly most of the surrounds at Riccarton are now housing. At least that explains why the club is now able to boost all of their stakes for low key meetings: I assume that will happen soon as the money comes in for all of the housing.

It ran all the way along Yaldhurst Road to the 1200m mark then ran along the outer edge of the track back to the trackwork stalls.  A cinder track that got a lot of use for horses trotting or walking.  Gone now of course with the housing development.

I doubt the CJC boosts much in the way of stakes.  Whatever type of meeting you run the stake are pretty well covered by the money ex NZTR

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Reefton