the galah Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Michael said: If you think it’s such an advantage Gammalite I’ll PM you Mark Purdon, Jean Feiss, Ray Green, Merv Butterwoth and Jason Grimson’s phone numbers so that you can ring them and share your knowledge because apparently if the conditions are changed to a Handicap then Self Assured, Copy That and Majestic Cruiser will all bypass the NZ Cup You have just pointed out why it should change. All the above only focus on the one interest when it comes to the current topic,that is self interest. You see it time and time again. The same people moaned when they changed the handicapping system because they could no longer win a 1 win race with their 7 win 3yo. I don't blame them. Who wouldn't promote whats best for their clients. But who believes that they wouldn't start because of a 10m handicap. Who's kidding who. As to that lincoln farms website.Ifind so self serving. It is their website,so they can promote what they like,but have you ever read some of the stuff they write,when it comes to self interest. I don't normally read it because of that,but i took a look at it last week to see if much had changed,and it hadn't. One of its key stories was how the head of the North island trainers associationJay abernethy said trainers and drivers were in full support of Maurice mckendry receiving no penalty for his drive on simply sam,the one where instead of angling one horse wider to get a clear run,he instead angled in to get trapped 3 back the fence turning in. Jay abernethy stating 9 out of 10 drivers would have done the same. What kind of fool writes or believes that type of stuff.The only reason abernethy was saying that,and others were supporting what he said, was because they wanted to be able to get away with the same thing. People have to make up their own minds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, the galah said: But who believes that they wouldn't start because of a 10m handicap. Who's kidding who That's my view too, I think Copy That and Self Assured in NZ Cup (and Sundee and Bolt in the Dominion ) would all start still if on 10m behind if the handicapper gave them that penalty. If fit and well. Pretty good trainers and drivers they all have , and I would think could handle the situation ?? lol........ Meaning they have to come around the field gives all the field some sort of hope. How can that be a bad thing ? I hope Michael is right that Copy That and Self Assured sulk and don't start if handicapped. They have both won a Nz Cup each , and would be great for all the other Cup runners !!!! . esp Spankem .... Gammalite got invited over to the Nz Cup once and was promptly handed a rather un-fair 10m handicap for his trouble ? , but didn't grizzle lol...... Found it a bit hard though , and ran 5th about 12 lengths behind tearaway winner Armalight. Ya would think I would hate Handicaps !!!!! lol.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 46 minutes ago, Gammalite said: That's my view too, I think Copy That and Self Assured in NZ Cup (and Sundee and Bolt in the Dominion ) would all start still if on 10m behind if the handicapper gave them that penalty. If fit and well. Pretty good trainers and drivers they all have , and I would think could handle the situation ?? lol........ Meaning they have to come around the field gives all the field some sort of hope. How can that be a bad thing ? I hope Michael is right that Copy That and Self Assured sulk and don't start if handicapped. They have both won a Nz Cup each , and would be great for all the other Cup runners !!!! . esp Spankem .... Gammalite got invited over to the Nz Cup once and was promptly handed a rather un-fair 10m handicap for his trouble ? , but didn't grizzle lol...... Found it a bit hard though , and ran 5th about 12 lengths behind tearaway winner Armalight. Ya would think I would hate Handicaps !!!!! lol.... And from memory that tearaway winner sat parked the entire trip, so hard to take anything away from her. I think that cup would also have had the likes of Hands Down and Bonnies Chance in it as well. In those days there was so much depth in the fields you hardly needed handicaps. These days there are often such dominant favs that a handicap at least makes the race interesting. There is still the FFA on show day to give the big guns their chance. Perhaps split the stake evenly between the two races; a $500,000 handicap cup and $500,000 FFA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, the galah said: You have just pointed out why it should change. All the above only focus on the one interest when it comes to the current topic,that is self interest. Of course it is only the Trainers of the good horses who will comment Do you think the Trainer of an average horse who is suddenly gifted the chance to win a Cup because the good horses are 10m or 20m behind will pop up and say hey no, don't do this? Get real Galah Edited July 27, 2022 by Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 On 26/07/2022 at 3:01 PM, the galah said: As gammalite has pointed out,putting the best horses on handicaps won't stop them winning. History clearly shows that. I would have agreed with that 10 years ago but with such a leaders bias at Addington these days I am not so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 11 hours ago, Doomed said: And from memory that tearaway winner sat parked the entire trip, so hard to take anything away from her. I think that cup would also have had the likes of Hands Down and Bonnies Chance in it as well. In those days there was so much depth in the fields you hardly needed handicaps. These days there are often such dominant favs that a handicap at least makes the race interesting. There is still the FFA on show day to give the big guns their chance. Perhaps split the stake evenly between the two races; a $500,000 handicap cup and $500,000 FFA. Spot on Doomed !! lets get some prestige into the NZ FFA as well.!! And make it a Huge Carnival in November. What a great race in can be / is ...... Here's your girl Armalight with Bob Negus after that big Cup win , blowing away the FFA field . (Gammalite was 4th 7 lengths away 😩 lol) Look at that crowd on Show Day !! great times !! Bonnie's Chance 2nd again for Richard Brosnan , but may of won both races the following year I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, Gammalite said: I hope Michael is right that Copy That and Self Assured sulk and don't start if handicapped. They have both won a Nz Cup each , and would be great for all the other Cup runners !!!! . esp Spankem .... So you hope that the NZ Cup doesn't have SA, CT and Majestic Cruiser in it? (and MC hasn't won a Cup yet so I notice you thoughtfully left him out of your post) It's a bit pointless debating with you then Gammalite, as there is clearly something wrong with you An enthusiast who doesn't want the best horses in NZ to line up in the NZ Cup so some average open class horse has a better chance? Meaning they have to come around the field gives all the field some sort of hope. How can that be a bad thing ? I have answered this I think it's a bad thing because, as has been pointed out, it's not a Pony Club Show where everyone gets a ribbon. It's the NZ Cup where the best horses are meant to meet. Edited July 27, 2022 by Michael 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, Michael said: So you hope that the NZ Cup doesn't have SA, whirly dream? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Michael said: It's a bit pointless debating with you then Gammalite, as there is clearly something wrong with you An enthusiast who doesn't want the best horses in NZ to line up in the NZ Cup so some average open class horse has a better chance? Wow Mikey , talk about go for the dagger. Hard to find a more passionate SUPPORTER of harness racing on this site than myself. I Love the NZ horses doing well. I love the Aussies going to Nz and doing well. Interdominions are great, Your 3 horses are all owned in Australia , so there's another reason I hope you are right and they don't start. The Cup would get to Stay in New Zealand on a Mantlepiece !!! (trying for some humor there mate) Great to see you are desparate for Self Assured to be in the Cup again. !! I think Mark is the bee's knees , and drove against him in his very first win at Ruakaka all those years ago. A great man indeed. What is wrong with me ? Having an opinion different to you makes it "Clearly there is something Wrong with Me" ?? Oh Because I think a hundred year + tradition of handicapping the Nz Cup, AKLD Cup, Rowe Cup and Dominion Handicap should continue ???? maybe it's the vaccination ?? get Brodie here to tell me please....... will I recover?? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 28 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Wow Mikey , talk about go for the dagger. Hard to find a more passionate SUPPORTER of harness racing on this site than myself. I Love the NZ horses doing well. I love the Aussies going to Nz and doing well. Interdominions are great, Your 3 horses are all owned in Australia , so there's another reason I hope you are right and they don't start. The Cup would get to Stay in New Zealand on a Mantlepiece !!! (trying for some humor there mate) Great to see you are desparate for Self Assured to be in the Cup again. !! I think Mark is the bee's knees , and drove against him in his very first win at Ruakaka all those years ago. A great man indeed. What is wrong with me ? Having an opinion different to you makes it "Clearly there is something Wrong with Me" ?? Oh Because I think a hundred year + tradition of handicapping the Nz Cup, AKLD Cup, Rowe Cup and Dominion Handicap should continue ???? maybe it's the vaccination ?? get Brodie here to tell me please....... will I recover?? No, having a different opinion doesn't make something wrong with you. I never said that so please stop mixing metaphors, paraphrasing incorrectly or just making up what I said. I said there is clearly something wrong with you if you think it's a good thing that the 3 (possibly) best horses in Australasia don't line up in the NZ Cup Because I think a hundred year + tradition of handicapping the Nz Cup, AKLD Cup, Rowe Cup and Dominion Handicap should continue ?? Over most of that 100 years did Trainers have the option of easily flying to Australia Gammalaite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted July 28, 2022 Author Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Michael said: It's a bit pointless debating with you then Gammalite, as there is clearly something wrong with you I think he is Australian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Gammalite said: Spot on Doomed !! lets get some prestige into the NZ FFA as well.!! And make it a Huge Carnival in November. What a great race in can be / is ...... Here's your girl Armalight with Bob Negus after that big Cup win , blowing away the FFA field . (Gammalite was 4th 7 lengths away 😩 lol) Look at that crowd on Show Day !! great times !! Bonnie's Chance 2nd again for Richard Brosnan , but may of won both races the following year I think. Would Superior Chance have been the last significant free legged pacer to race in NZ? Something you don't see much anymore, but I am well out of touch these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted July 28, 2022 Author Share Posted July 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, Doomed said: Would Superior Chance have been the last significant free legged pacer to race in NZ? Something you don't see much anymore, but I am well out of touch these days. Nutwood, Rosin and Hondo's Dream rather handy types since without being Superior. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Rangatira said: I think he is Australian Rangatira, that's one of the best! As an aside the proposal isn't for a true Handicap, but Handicaps based on previous Group wins The Miracle Mile and NZ FFA are excluded from the penalty bearing events Mmmmmm I wonder which 2 horses currently racing that that really benefits? I'm sure it's just a coincidence 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Michael said: Of course it is only the Trainers of the good horses who will comment Do you think the Trainer of an average horse who is suddenly gifted the chance to win a Cup because the good horses are 10m or 20m behind will pop up and say hey no, don't do this? Get real Galah So by that comment you understand your earlier comments highlighted the views of just a handful of connections of the higher assessed horses. So why should the views of an elite minority take precedence over the majority view? There is of course more connections who would benefit than wouldn't after all.. Also using your argument that the handful of horses you mention won't race here,then why not use the argument that those who would benefit from such a move are more likely to stay here? Also given you think these races should continue to be run as free for alls then if they are,wouldn't it make sense to base the stakes of said races on turnover as much as prestige. If its viewed that having a horse like sundees son stifle betting is better than having a larger turnover,then cut the stakes of the nz cup,the dominion and the other races involved. Why should 95% of the industry have to prop up the major races when the decision makers are happy to continue to set conditions where only the very elite have realistic winning chances? Edited July 28, 2022 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Doomed said: Would Superior Chance have been the last significant free legged pacer to race in NZ? Something you don't see much anymore, but I am well out of touch these days. Think so? . Ranga would be great with that one and might have spotted another FFAer somewhere. Final Decision ran 2nd in the NZ Cup Free-legged before Superior Chance came along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) And the horse everyone loved Robalan won the Nz Cup and the NZ FFA in the 70's, both the great races without hopples too. Who's the 2nd horse here Ranga? (Nz FFA) think that is Quinny running 3rd. Look at that crowd !! you kiwis are amazing. Edited July 28, 2022 by Gammalite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 23 minutes ago, Gammalite said: And the horse everyone loved Robalan won the Nz Cup and the NZ FFA in the 70's, both the great races without hopples too. Who's the 2nd horse here Ranga? (Nz FFA) think that is Quinny running 3rd. Look at that crowd !! you kiwis are amazing. They don't even have a grandstand these days, let alone a crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, Doomed said: They don't even have a grandstand these days, let alone a crowd. Why ? did they burn it down again. ? Here's one of the Greatest Photo's Ever Taken in the World, with Cardigan Bay leading up the Nz FFA field (the very race we were plugging earlier by co-incidence lol.... ) as the last race of the day. The crowd all moved in an orderly manner to the front (foreground) to watch the race while they waited for the fire brigade to arrive !!!!!!!!!! again you kiwis are amazing Cardy Won of course !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Michael said: Rangatira, that's one of the best! As an aside the proposal isn't for a true Handicap, but Handicaps based on previous Group wins The Miracle Mile and NZ FFA are excluded from the penalty bearing events Mmmmmm I wonder which 2 horses currently racing that that really benefits? I'm sure it's just a coincidence Expect a huge back flip very soon I’m told that the Board didn’t even vote on this pie in the sky proposal and that an Employee has exceeded her powers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, Michael said: Expect a huge back flip very soon I’m told that the Board didn’t even vote on this pie in the sky proposal and that an Employee has exceeded her powers And what does that tell you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 2 hours ago, the galah said:where only the very elite have realistic winning chances? That’s the point I’m making The very elite should win the Cup Not a bunny benefitting from a head start If we take your suggestion further then races at ATC should be run for $7000 correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 27 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: And what does that tell you? Incompetence all around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, Michael said: That’s the point I’m making The very elite should win the Cup Good news for you Michael is....... The very Elite have and Do Win the NZ Cup. It's an amazing list of winners !!. Barely a champion missing. Young Quinn with the 2 placings was one surprise miss. Whatever the start conditions introduced , the Big Players play well.. Hey why not go like Formula One and make it totally boring and give the best rated and fastest the Pole draw? and work outward from there. Go Lewis Hamilton lol...You might get the 'Elite' Winner you desire badly then ... Might get an Allstars whole front-line at Addington lol ??? (humor matey ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted July 28, 2022 Author Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: And the horse everyone loved Robalan won the Nz Cup and the NZ FFA in the 70's, both the great races without hopples too. Who's the 2nd horse here Ranga? (Nz FFA) think that is Quinny running 3rd. Look at that crowd !! you kiwis are amazing. Hi Foyle with Speedy Guest the other one fighting out 3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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