Increasing The Size Of The Pie

[With A Dream]

Rather than discussing how stakes are distributed I would like to see a good discussion on how to increase the size of the pie so all stakes could rise significantly. 

[Basil]

6 hours ago, With A Dream said:

Rather than discussing how stakes are distributed I would like to see a good discussion on how to increase the size of the pie so all stakes could rise significantly. 

That, of course, is the $64K question. And, at the risk of stating the obvious, the answer is clear — increase betting turnover. But how to do that is by no means clear. Brodie keeps pushing a couple of ideas: (i) get rid of any restrictions on drivers whipping horses and (ii) get rid of any restrictions on Brodie's betting activities — but most are unconvinced either of these will make much difference.?

A reduction in the tax percentage would make betting more attractive to everybody and so could have a positive effect, but in these neo-puritan days there's more chance of the dog learning to speak Norwegian.

So it's possible the turnover boat may have sailed, and is unlikely to return to port any time soon. Other industries facing declining revenues quickly learn to cut administrative costs in order to survive. It's by no means clear to me that the racing industry has absorbed this lesson. 

[With A Dream]

If Brodie is as successful as he says then lifting restrictions on him would likely decrease stakes lol.                                             I think turnover needs to increase, but it must come from overseas as our market is too small.   

[Brodie]

There are several things  that need to be done to increase turnover!

Yes take the betting restrictions off all punters, 

Yes, make the opening Odds more attractive to invest, as the opening odds are quite often pathetic and doesn’t encourage offloading!

While we have very small fields, often dominated by one stable then turnover will suffer.

We need new punters to be enticed to invest on harness racing otherwise the industry is stuffed as the older ones move on to greener pastures.

The TAB’s business plan is totally flawed as I have stated many times by wanting their yield on harness increased to the detriment of turnover.

Bigger the turnover, bigger the number of punters that will provide income for the industry.

The problem is getting people to the course nowadays as there are so many other things that the younger ones would rather spend their hard earned on!

Punters should not be made to feel like criminals by just wanting to invest on harness racing,  by being restricted!!!!!!!!!!

[Nowornever]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

There are several things  that need to be done to increase turnover!

Yes take the betting restrictions off all punters, 

Yes, make the opening Odds more attractive to invest, as the opening odds are quite often pathetic and doesn’t encourage offloading!

While we have very small fields, often dominated by one stable then turnover will suffer.

We need new punters to be enticed to invest on harness racing otherwise the industry is stuffed as the older ones move on to greener pastures.

The TAB’s business plan is totally flawed as I have stated many times by wanting their yield on harness increased to the detriment of turnover.

Bigger the turnover, bigger the number of punters that will provide income for the industry.

The problem is getting people to the course nowadays as there are so many other things that the younger ones would rather spend their hard earned on!

Punters should not be made to feel like criminals by just wanting to invest on harness racing,  by being restricted!!!!!!!!!!

Not sure which plan is more flawed. Brodies plan to take millions off the distribution to harness by letting everybody win or the TAB taking millions off turnover.

One thing is for sure. The TAB is run by Aussies following the Aussie bookies rule book for risk management so Brodie you have to get the Aussies to stop restrictions first before having any chance of stopping NZ restrictions.

Good luck with that by the way!

[Flagship uberalles]

What I don't get is why the tab is willing to show so many overseas races, and especially when alot are non broadcast races where the trifecta pool gets to a measly $70 who bets on these races??? There is far too much product out there and for me is a real turn off....... how is this helping nz clubs when turnover is being diverted from our racing/trotting clubs. It would be interesting to know what the Aussie punters invest on our racing, I wouldn't have thought very much! 

[Newmarket]

On 25/08/2018 at 8:16 PM, With A Dream said:

If Brodie is as successful as he says then lifting restrictions on him would likely decrease stakes lol.                                             I think turnover needs to increase, but it must come from overseas as our market is too small.   

True, 

But a good start would be to get back punters like myself, i have bet with tab exclusively until about 3 years ago, now they get less than 5% of my spend. 

Now im not a  huge punter, but do bet each week. Turned over $2k beteasy, $1k betfair last weekend, tab $0. 

Multiply that by thousands of other regular punters, and thats a lot of dough. It seems over the years, tab looked after top elite customers, even give free bets and top ups to those that didnt use account for month or so,

But sadly, those middle type customers, GOT NOTHING, and a heap left. 

[Tonkatime!]

3 hours ago, Newmarket said:

True, 

But a good start would be to get back punters like myself, i have bet with tab exclusively until about 3 years ago, now they get less than 5% of my spend. 

Now im not a  huge punter, but do bet each week. Turned over $2k beteasy, $1k betfair last weekend, tab $0. 

Multiply that by thousands of other regular punters, and thats a lot of dough. It seems over the years, tab looked after top elite customers, even give free bets and top ups to those that didnt use account for month or so,

But sadly, those middle type customers, GOT NOTHING, and a heap left. 

Spot on, is an account really active if the only time someone uses it is when they get a free $5 bet every couple of months. 

[With A Dream]

One change I think would boost turnover and interest is to turn pick 6 into pick 8.  The idea of pick 6 is to create jackpots but it too often gets struck every week or every few weeks, meaning we never  get a big jackpot pool.

We should have pick 8's terminating at 1mil, though I doubt even they would jackpot enough times to reach that.

[Rangatira]

On 25/08/2018 at 8:55 PM, Brodie said:

There are several things  that need to be done to increase turnover!

Yes take the betting restrictions off all punters, 

Yes, make the opening Odds more attractive to invest, as the opening odds are quite often pathetic and doesn’t encourage offloading!

While we have very small fields, often dominated by one stable then turnover will suffer.

We need new punters to be enticed to invest on harness racing otherwise the industry is stuffed as the older ones move on to greener pastures.

The TAB’s business plan is totally flawed as I have stated many times by wanting their yield on harness increased to the detriment of turnover.

Bigger the turnover, bigger the number of punters that will provide income for the industry.

The problem is getting people to the course nowadays as there are so many other things that the younger ones would rather spend their hard earned on!

Punters should not be made to feel like criminals by just wanting to invest on harness racing,  by being restricted!!!!!!!!!!

you don't get it do you

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, Rangatira said:

you don't get it do you

Now that’s being a bit personal!

[Happy Sunrise]

2 hours ago, Rangatira said:

you don't get it do you

What do you recommend as an answer to the original post?

[Rangatira]

4 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

What do you recommend as an answer to the original post?

firstly understanding how payouts work as the last model i understood was based on turnover percentage and differed between on and off course

can someone please update me to todays model

[Brodie]

2 minutes ago, Rangatira said:

firstly understanding how payouts work as the last model i understood was based on turnover percentage and differed between on and off course

can someone please update me to todays model

Reduce the percentage whipped out of the tote pools so that the divs. especially the place are at least worth getting.

Many races all 3 place divs are pretty pointless getting which turns any semi serious punter off.

Fixed Odds percentages need to be increased as well to keep punters interested.

And yes, I do get it!

[Rangatira]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

Reduce the percentage whipped out of the tote pools so that the divs. especially the place are at least worth getting.

Many races all 3 place divs are pretty pointless getting which turns any semi serious punter off.

Fixed Odds percentages need to be increased as well to keep punters interested.

And yes, I do get it!

did you read my question

[Brodie]

17 minutes ago, Rangatira said:

did you read my question

Probably not, because you don’t always write stuff that makes sense

[Justamugpunter]

On ‎25‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 7:14 PM, Basil said:

That, of course, is the $64K question. And, at the risk of stating the obvious, the answer is clear — increase betting turnover. But how to do that is by no means clear. 

A reduction in the tax percentage would make betting more attractive to everybody and so could have a positive effect, but in these neo-puritan days there's more chance of the dog learning to speak Norwegian.

So it's possible the turnover boat may have sailed, and is unlikely to return to port any time soon. Other industries facing declining revenues quickly learn to cut administrative costs in order to survive. It's by no means clear to me that the racing industry has absorbed this lesson. 

100% in agreement with lowering the betting take outs, only a mug would be betting into pools  that have a 25% tax! And to think that many others have more than 30% 

At least when Ned Kelly robbed you he had a gun pointing at you!!!

Sadly you are 100% correct regarding the boat having sailed!  the number of  us mugs just gets smaller and smaller!

[Blind Squirrel]

2 hours ago, Justamugpunter said:

100% in agreement with lowering the betting take outs, only a mug would be betting into pools  that have a 25% tax! And to think that many others have more than 30% 

At least when Ned Kelly robbed you he had a gun pointing at you!!!

Sadly you are 100% correct regarding the boat having sailed!  the number of  us mugs just gets smaller and smaller!

Perhaps you could enlighten me which pools have >30% takeout on them - just so I can avoid those bet types.

Another question- aren't takeout rates for products that are commingled with TABcorp the same as TABCorp's? If so how could NZ TAB reduce them without having TABcorp do the same?

Thanks in anticipation

[Nowornever]

On 27/08/2018 at 4:11 PM, Brodie said:

Reduce the percentage whipped out of the tote pools so that the divs. especially the place are at least worth getting.

Many races all 3 place divs are pretty pointless getting which turns any semi serious punter off.

Fixed Odds percentages need to be increased as well to keep punters interested.

And yes, I do get it!

Bad luck Brodie. Looks like a complete ban coming for you and even more ridiculous odds.

Hold all tickets: Aussie takeover of TAB on the cards

Giant Australian gambling companies are poised to take over the TAB’s role in New Zealand if a report into the racing industry is adopted by the Government.

The report, commissioned by Racing Minister Winston Peters, and kept secret from racing industry leaders, is due to be released tonight at a public meeting in Hamilton.

Sources familiar with the contents of the report says it recommends that race betting in New Zealand be outsourced to an Australian company, effectively meaning the end of the TAB.

The TAB turns over more than a billion dollars in race bets and returns a total of about $150 million annually to the racing codes – gallops, harness racing and greyhounds.

The racing industry has been struggling for years with inadequate stake money and NZ First leader, Winston Peters is its local champion.

NZ First has received considerable backing from key figures in the racing industry and the Deputy Prime Minister has long promised to lift the industry out of the doldrums.

Peters brought in wealthy Australian stud owner and racing guru John Messara to review the long-term sustainability of racing industry in this country.

Sources have told Newsroom that the big gambling companies in Australia have proposed giving the industry an up-front cash payment and more money, said to be $100 million over 25 years, if they get the licence to control betting on NZ races. 

It is odds on that one of the Australian suitors will be Tabcorp.

It is listed on the ASX and has a capitalisation of nearly $10 billion.

The TAB is owned by the New Zealand Racing Board and has operated since 1951.

NZRB’s John Allen described the TAB as an “exciting opportunity and an iconic brand,” when he took up the CEO role in 2015.

The TAB also owns Trackside TV which broadcasts race meetings and race shows.

Newsroom’s sources say the Australian deal would also involve them taking control of the broadcasting rights and the timetable of race meetings and races in New Zealand.

When approached by Newsroom for comment on what might happen to Tracksideif the Australians took over, one prominent staffer said it was likely that “racing in New Zealand will end up getting covered like Tasmania or other Australian states. They won’t cross to our tracks five minutes before the race like happens now and the narrative of racing will be lost.

“It might be a short-term win in terms of the money but in the long-term it will hurt racing in this country.”

Other industry figures approached by Newsroom felt the proposal would reduce costs in the racing industry and boost stakes, but the  outsourcing of betting and broadcasting to the Australians could cost up to 600 jobs.

“It sounds very short-sighted, if we had sold Air New Zealand to Qantas when the share price was at 16.5 cents we would be kicking ourselves.  The share price is now over $3. It is the same for racing, we risk selling out at a low point that we will regret.”

It is understood that the report also recommends that the number of race tracks be rationalised, a touchy subject in provinces where race meetings and the facilities at race tracks draw the communities together. 

It is thought the number of tracks could be reduced from 57 to around 25.

Racing industry sources point out that it is not uncommon for recommendations to be ignored or only a few taken up by Government but there are signs that Peters is not looking to cherry pick from Messara’s report.

At the New Zealand Thoroughbred Awards on Sunday night, the Minister for Racing ended his speech by telling the audience that he wanted them to embrace the report “lock, stock and two smoking barrels".

Peters will speak and release the full report at a public meeting at the Claudelands Arena in Hamilton tonight. The New Zealand Racing Board will also live-stream the event.

[With A Dream]

Seems ironic that the man who made a career out of campaigning against foreign control is leading the charge to sell out the TAB to foreign interests.

Lets hope any windfall will be shared fairly among all three codes.