WHY?????

[Reefton]

Ashburton was rated a Soft 5 yesterday (nomination morning) and a Soft 6 today(withdrawal day)

When a track is clearly rain affected AND there are horses looking for drier tracks what good reason is there why that Club is irrigating and secondly why did they not disclose that fact on the NZTR website nominations page?  It is in the meeting news release but not in the nominations/fields page.

[curious]

You are not the first to raise that question. Hopefully they have now found the tap and turned the bloody thing off.

[Freda]

I rang to enquire the rationale for that..was told that the aim was to produce a gd 4 on racemorning.    I pointed out that we have had rain on and off for a month...hardly dessicating weather.

Riccarton was bad enough last time,  Timaru was a welcome relief and a credit to all concerned.

[Ludwig]

6 minutes ago, Freda said:

I rang to enquire the rationale for that..was told that the aim was to produce a gd 4 on racemorning.    I pointed out that we have had rain on and off for a month...hardly dessicating weather.

Riccarton was bad enough last time,  Timaru was a welcome relief and a credit to all concerned.

Timaru is so under utilised.

[curious]

57 minutes ago, Freda said:

I rang to enquire the rationale for that..was told that the aim was to produce a gd 4 on racemorning.    I pointed out that we have had rain on and off for a month...hardly dessicating weather.

Riccarton was bad enough last time,  Timaru was a welcome relief and a credit to all concerned.

That's interesting. I thought the track preparation guidelines said they should aim for a Good 3 on race morning?

[curious]

31 minutes ago, curious said:

That's interesting. I thought the track preparation guidelines said they should aim for a Good 3 on race morning?

OK. I stand corrected. That has changed but not been updated in the venue guidelines.

Race Day Track Preparation Process – Mandatory Requirements
Clubs should aim to produce a GOOD3 rating (track with good grass coverage and cushion) for the majority of the race meeting. This may result in a track reading in the Dead range being declared on race morning.

[Doomed]

6 hours ago, Freda said:

I rang to enquire the rationale for that..was told that the aim was to produce a gd 4 on racemorning.    I pointed out that we have had rain on and off for a month...hardly dessicating weather.

Riccarton was bad enough last time,  Timaru was a welcome relief and a credit to all concerned.

I was amazed that they irrigated leading into the last Riccarton meeting when it was predicted to rain for several days that week. They are just so scared that a horse might slip on race-day so aim for a wet track. I thought the Timaru track looked great last week. No one cares though, a decent racing surface doesn't fit in with the grand scheme. Ironic when you think about it, with on course attendance no longer considered important, you would think they would focus racing on the best racing surfaces, wherever they may be, within reason.

[Freda]

Not sure if 'slipping' is the reason, although you may be right.   Slipping is seldom a problem at Riccarton, with its sweeping turns and roomy track.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

Not sure if 'slipping' is the reason, although you may be right.   Slipping is seldom a problem at Riccarton, with its sweeping turns and roomy track.

I'm not so sure you are correct on that.  

However maybe the irrigation policy has avoided the slipping happening more often.  

[curious]

Oh no! They irrigated again last night? WTF? It's not like the forecast is for 30 degrees and a howling nor'wester.

Thursday Afternoon

Weather: Fine | Easterly Wind

Track: Soft 5

Moisture Meter: n/s

Rail: True 

Rainfall: Nil

Irrigation: Irrigated last night

Weather and Track Updated at 4pm Thursday 13 October

[Doomed]

4 minutes ago, curious said:

Oh no! They irrigated again last night? WTF? It's not like the forecast is for 30 degrees and a howling nor'wester.

Thursday Afternoon

Weather: Fine | Easterly Wind

Track: Soft 5

Moisture Meter: n/s

Rail: True 

Rainfall: Nil

Irrigation: Irrigated last night

Weather and Track Updated at 4pm Thursday 13 October

Grey Way will be turning in his grave.

[Reefton]

16 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm not so sure you are correct on that.  

However maybe the irrigation policy has avoided the slipping happening more often.  

I abso-bloody-lutely sure Pam is correct on that

Slipping has never been a problem at Riccarton in modern times but what has been a massive issue is over irrigating or inconsistent irrigating causing lanes to develop in the track on raceday.  I am suspicious that may have to do with the way the track was laid down years ago but clearly the Club and the Conference(NZRC) relied on 'experts' to sort the track out and equally clearly the quality of the work is in serious doubt.  When you rely on 'experts' in any field it is (in my experience) a recipe for disaster. 

[Freda]

Yes.

Quite a few years ago there was a meeting held at the Yaldhurst Hotel to discuss a 'vote of no confidence' in the track management processes.

A good number of stakeholders attended and, of course, in the [ robust ] discussion that ensued, the contractors who carried out the reconstruction work in 1998 were given a sound bagging.

Some of us were given tasks, mine was to email Godber of the [ then] RIU and express our concern not only about the condition of the track, but also the 'misinformation' given out.  My reply was that ' this is a beat-up, there is nothing to address here' ...and so on.   He also seemed to think that I was a troublemaker, although I had taken great care to explain that I was 'forwarding the concerns of the meeting', not conducting a personal vendetta.

The 'misinformation' concern was brushed aside as a 'misunderstanding' .

So that, as might be expected, went nowhere.  However, as one who likes to get as much information as possible before coming to a decision, I decided [ this off my own bat ] to find out just exactly what specifications the company involved had to work with.  It took a fair bit of ferreting out, as the principal of Laing's had since retired, and was, at that time, operating as a consultant. But, where there's a will there's a way, and eventually I tracked him down.

Duncan Laing was very approachable and was happy to discuss the situation.  I won't go into all the detail, but he was clear that the company was given a scope of work by the RIB...that being the old Racing Industry Board, before the 2003 Racing Act that morphed that body and the TAB into the R.B [ Racing Board ].

He also said that he had produced a manual for the management of the new-laid track, and felt that the incumbent manager [ Rob Lory ] had understood the requirements therein, and had done his best to follow them.  He was of the opinion that subsequent appointments had probably tossed it away as he didn't seem to think things were going as well as they should.

The thing to take out of all this, is that Laing's followed their instructions.  I don't think any contractor can ignore their scope of work and do something else.  So the company shouldn't [ IMO ] be held responsible for the construction faults, whatever they may be.  Those  [ experts ] responsible for producing the instructions have to wear that.

And we have seen problems arise not just here, but reconstruction work at Randwick[ ? ] I think had issues, as did Eagle Farm and I'm sure there will be several others come to mind.

[curious]

And again!

Ashburton RC | Saturday 15 October

Friday Morning

Weather: Fine | Light Frost

Track: Soft 5

Moisture Meter: n/s

Rail: True 

Rainfall: Nil

Irrigation: Irrigated last night

Weather and Track Updated at 7.30am Friday 14 October

[Chief Stipe]

The evidence that has been sent to me over the years concerning Riccarton indicate that slipping would have been an issue if not for the ameliorative irrigation policy.  Unfortunately due to the poor soil structure arising from decades of neglect and no investment irrigation had to be in large quantities and could never be applied evenly.

Moaning about something that happened 30 years ago doesn't address the underlying issue the soil is fucked NOW.  As it has been in any number of our high use tracks in NZ.

Let's roll the dice for Guineas week shall we?

For every bad track  reconstruction there have been at least twice as many good ones.  

[Reefton]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

Yes.

Quite a few years ago there was a meeting held at the Yaldhurst Hotel to discuss a 'vote of no confidence' in the track management processes.

A good number of stakeholders attended and, of course, in the [ robust ] discussion that ensued, the contractors who carried out the reconstruction work in 1998 were given a sound bagging.

Some of us were given tasks, mine was to email Godber of the [ then] RIU and express our concern not only about the condition of the track, but also the 'misinformation' given out.  My reply was that ' this is a beat-up, there is nothing to address here' ...and so on.   He also seemed to think that I was a troublemaker, although I had taken great care to explain that I was 'forwarding the concerns of the meeting', not conducting a personal vendetta.

The 'misinformation' concern was brushed aside as a 'misunderstanding' .

So that, as might be expected, went nowhere.  However, as one who likes to get as much information as possible before coming to a decision, I decided [ this off my own bat ] to find out just exactly what specifications the company involved had to work with.  It took a fair bit of ferreting out, as the principal of Laing's had since retired, and was, at that time, operating as a consultant. But, where there's a will there's a way, and eventually I tracked him down.

Duncan Laing was very approachable and was happy to discuss the situation.  I won't go into all the detail, but he was clear that the company was given a scope of work by the RIB...that being the old Racing Industry Board, before the 2003 Racing Act that morphed that body and the TAB into the R.B [ Racing Board ].

He also said that he had produced a manual for the management of the new-laid track, and felt that the incumbent manager [ Rob Lory ] had understood the requirements therein, and had done his best to follow them.  He was of the opinion that subsequent appointments had probably tossed it away as he didn't seem to think things were going as well as they should.

The thing to take out of all this, is that Laing's followed their instructions.  I don't think any contractor can ignore their scope of work and do something else.  So the company shouldn't [ IMO ] be held responsible for the construction faults, whatever they may be.  Those  [ experts ] responsible for producing the instructions have to wear that.

And we have seen problems arise not just here, but reconstruction work at Randwick[ ? ] I think had issues, as did Eagle Farm and I'm sure there will be several others come to mind.

That's another one of my constant statements - any time they touch a track they f#*k it.  Happened time after time after time

And what you are saying about track managers rings true too Pam because the issues here have been comparatively recent.  The only thing I remember from Rob Lory's time was the winter charge for the outside fence

Anyway like I say the advent of the AWT seems(touch wood) to have perhaps brought an improvement in the state and presentation of the turf track 

 

[Reefton]

48 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

For every bad track  reconstruction there have been at least twice as many good ones.  

Bullshit!

Invercargill

Gore

Wingatui

Ashburton

Riccarton

Rangiora

Kumara

Omoto

Wellington

Awapuni

Te Rapa

Pukekohe

Ellerslie

And there are probably more that do not spring to mind

Every single one had huge issues after track renovation.  Most settled down to be fair but equally there was major disruption in the aftermath of renovation

 

[Michael]

15 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Bullshit!

Invercargill

Gore

Wingatui

Ashburton

Riccarton

Rangiora

Kumara

Omoto

Wellington

Awapuni

Te Rapa

Pukekohe

Ellerslie

And there are probably more that do not spring to mind

Every single one had huge issues after track renovation.  Most settled down to be fair but equally there was major disruption in the aftermath of renovation

 

That's 13 Chief

We await your list of 26

[Joe Bloggs]

Don't tell me there is another creative accountant loose out there, maybe he raced 90 also?

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Reefton said:

Bullshit!

Invercargill

Gore

Wingatui

Ashburton

Riccarton

Rangiora

Kumara

Omoto

Wellington

Awapuni

Te Rapa

Pukekohe

Ellerslie

And there are probably more that do not spring to mind

Every single one had huge issues after track renovation.  Most settled down to be fair but equally there was major disruption in the aftermath of renovation

 

Bollocks.  How many of those were actually complete reconstructions?  Most were only half arsed partials.

Your only solution is to let god do the irrigating and put a plough through the track occasionally.  I guess that works if you only have two or three meetings a year.  Oh and no harness meetings!

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Michael said:

That's 13 Chief

We await your list of 26

Where have you been hiding O'Brien?  You were part of the problem - promoted stake increases and neglected track conditions.

[Chief Stipe]

BTW I was referring to Oz tracks I  response to Fredas comments about Randwick and Eagle Farm.

Of course the option most of you seem to prefer is to do nothing or race less. 

I guess one begets the other.

[Freda]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

BTW I was referring to Oz tracks I  response to Fredas comments about Randwick and Eagle Farm.

Of course the option most of you seem to prefer is to do nothing or race less. 

Bullshit  [to quote Reefton].   Just do what needs to be done, properly.

[Joe Bloggs]

Here's a simple question, we didn't have these problems back in the 60's and 70"s........I remember riding in pouring rain, on a bottomless track and had 3 pairs of goggles, on....we called them goggles then, the only bloke who didn't have googles was MRC and he told us why, he waa going to the front and staying there....he did..........why is all this crap going on now? what happened tween then and now?.....something that baffles me.......

[Michael]

19 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Where have you been hiding O'Brien?  You were part of the problem - promoted stake increases and neglected track conditions.

Firstly you are incorrect yet again as Reefton does run a harness meeting

Secondly, when I was Secretary I don't think a single day was lost due to the track at Marlborough, Nelson, Hokitika, Westport or Reefton (Greymouth spoilt the record, 1 day abandoned after a horse slipped during the day (and another due to gale force winds)). Yet again you are making stuff up

Thirdly, you are getting like Brodie (unless you are Brodie and have 2 logins, has been known to happen before) in that when questioned or pulled up on a stupid statement you then "of course I wasn't referring to NZ" or "of course I meant full reconstructions instead of partial ones"