What’s the Point? Franklin Cup?

[Michael]

On 1/1/2023 at 8:14 AM, the galah said:

You can't but help compare the decision to run that race last nightfor $50,000 and only 4 runnersand next to no turnover,with that of the decision to cancel 3 upcoming meetings in canterbury in may.

In one instant you supply the stake for 1 race in which 4 benefit,or in the other you supply the stake for 5 or 6 races in which you would have approxiametly 60 horses connections benefit. The type of connections and trainers and drivers who battle to continue to participate. 

And of course the turnover from running the 5 or 6 races would far exceed a 4 horse race.

So those who made the decision to run last nights race again showed they care more about a handful of owners/trainers/drivers than they do about the grassroots participants.

decisions like that are why optimism is at such a low. Those who made the decision to run that race last night simply prioritised those who have the financial resources over those that don't and struggle to keep going.

What type of message does that send. And yet they wonder why people are giving up or not breeding.

Theres part of your answer.

2 posts in a row that revive my faith in poster's intelligence

 

[Michael]

On 1/1/2023 at 8:32 AM, Gammalite said:

Prize money is allocated for races. It's Not the Clubs fault that the race had just 4 starters. You still need to run the race. (unless a loan is taken out to supply the prizemoney - which I doubt would ever happen) 

 

Well, from the beating of the jungle drums I'd say your doubt is incorrect (although perhaps not in a direct way)

[Michael]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Is that an admission of yourself?

Absolutely Chief

These 2 posters compensate for me somewhat

Now we only need another 50 like them to offset you and Brodie

[Michael]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Right plan if they had done their homework!

 

2023 has started well

I've found a Brodie post I can agree with 

And he's made a post that doesn't include a refence to vaccines, the Government or declaring that he's on the money

It's a Christmas miracle

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Michael said:

2023 has started well

I've found a Brodie post I can agree with 

And he's made a post that doesn't include a refence to vaccines, the Government or declaring that he's on the money

It's a Christmas miracle

Only ruined by you having a dig.  

[Michael]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

Only ruined by you having a dig.  

So his post was so momentous that you even noticed the lack of his usual drivel

[Chief Stipe]

37 minutes ago, Michael said:

So his post was so momentous that you even noticed the lack of his usual drivel

The Bromance begins anew in 2023.  

[paleface adios]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

The Bromance begins anew in 2023.  

you to still going at it lol. sunniest place in nz is ? nelson or Marlborough?

[Gammalite]

Well the Galah and Michael and Brodie may well have Not wanted the Franklin Cup run , and I'm a bad guy and un-intelligent for enjoying the race and wanting it run. But still I LIKE seeing the best the Country strut their stuff.

If you had better prize money and better programming (handicapper) the likes of Mach Shard, Alta Orlando , Star Gallaria , Spirit of St Louis , Honey Queen would still be there racing. (and been IN the Franklin Cup)

I think it's very sad the 'cancelling' of races  , that you all demand be cancelled (even when you've got fuck-all happening now anyway) , as Forced the Nz owners to race overseas  . tragic beyond words in my mind. How do they see their horse race? unless taking expensive flights all the time ....

But what the F do I know ...the un-intelligent non supporting one apparently. Cancel next weeks races and save some money then. ? that's good viewing . 

Congrats to the connections of Alta Wiseguy too. !! a great exciting race and drive and well deserved. 

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Well the Galah and Michael and Brodie may well have Not wanted the Franklin Cup run , and I'm a bad guy and un-intelligent for enjoying the race and wanting it run. But still I LIKE seeing the best the Country strut their stuff.

There have been many major Thoroughbred Group races run in OZ over the years with less than 6 horses.  I don't see it as a big deal.  The bigger issue will be if the OZ harness stakes reach the level where NZ's best yearlings and racing horses choose to chase the stakes across the ditch.  That's what has happened with NZ Thoroughbreds.

[the galah]

58 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

But what the F do I know ...the un-intelligent non supporting one apparently. Cancel next weeks races and save some money then. ? that's good viewing . 

 

So you may actually agree with what we are saying. Hrnz withdrawing funding and forcing the cancellation of 3 entire meetings in may in canterbury where all the horses are ,then in the same week funding a $50,000 4 horse race in auckland.

HRNZ can't have it both ways without being open for ridicule. So thats what they get.What else could they have expected people to think.. Yet they did it knowing that. They are out of touch.

Edited January 2, 2023 by the galah

[Blackie]

I think the CEO was put in a no win situation, after all , he has the final call when it’s down to that number. He would have been call a hypocrite if he’d called it off, but allowed a 4 horse go at Cambridge earlier in the year.

[the galah]

23 minutes ago, Blackie said:

I think the CEO was put in a no win situation, after all , he has the final call when it’s down to that number. He would have been call a hypocrite if he’d called it off, but allowed a 4 horse go at Cambridge earlier in the year.

So you think if he is to remain consistent, races with only 4 nominations will go ahead each time he makes the call..Well that sounds consistently dumb.

[Brodie]

6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

The Bromance begins anew in 2023.  

I don’t see Michaels’s posts but to be fair I do believe he knows that Brodie is always on the money, and tries to disagree for the hell of it !

 

[Chief Stipe]

55 minutes ago, the galah said:

So you think if he is to remain consistent, races with only 4 nominations will go ahead each time he makes the call..Well that sounds consistently dumb.

So what races should be called off at what number of participants?  4 is still considered a contest.

[Doomed]

58 minutes ago, the galah said:

So you think if he is to remain consistent, races with only 4 nominations will go ahead each time he makes the call..Well that sounds consistently dumb.

Its really a no win situation. If they cancel races with a couple of decent horses entered because of small fields, those few remaining decent horses might disappear off to Oz as Gammalight suggests. Also, if the horses just below that class see their aspirational races being cancelled they may decide they might as well piss off as well.

At the same time, the industry can't afford to keep running $50,000 races with no betting. A decent sized field with a $1.20 fav for $200.000 is probably just as bad. 

Our strength used to be in the open class races with even fields of well known consistent horses. These days the big money seems to go to age group races with hot favs, which don't seem to have a lot of upside. You wonder whether the allocation of stakes money might need to be reconsidered.

You only have to look back on some of the open class fields from 30 years ago to see the same horses racing against each other consistently year after year. Punters need horses they are familiar with. We seem to be miles away from that these days.

[Basil]

2 hours ago, Blackie said:

I think the CEO was put in a no win situation, after all , he has the final call when it’s down to that number. He would have been call a hypocrite if he’d called it off, but allowed a 4 horse go at Cambridge earlier in the year.

True, but one is supposed to learn from one's errors.

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

So what races should be called off at what number of participants?  4 is still considered a contest.

I would say running races where there is only a win pool operating and no place pool at the time nominations close,would be the criteria.

You would have thought one of the main priorities would be to not programme races that will only get 4 nominations. Why couldn't they foresee they were only going to get 4 starters?. Don't they communicate with the trainers? Maybe they did,knew they would only get 4 starters and thought they could run it at a big loss anyway. What other conclusions can you draw.

Hrnz have said the reason for the recently announced spending cuts  is because expenditure is greater than income.  

On one hand they are reducing the incomes of those effected by the cuts and cancellations of meetings programmed,while on the other are saying those cuts don't apply when it comes to races for the high class horses.

Why can't leadership give a consistent message and why are some sectors of the industry considered more important than others?

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by the galah

[the galah]

.

Edited January 2, 2023 by the galah

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Doomed said:

Its really a no win situation. If they cancel races with a couple of decent horses entered because of small fields, those few remaining decent horses might disappear off to Oz as Gammalight suggests. Also, if the horses just below that class see their aspirational races being cancelled they may decide they might as well piss off as well.

At the same time, the industry can't afford to keep running $50,000 races with no betting. A decent sized field with a $1.20 fav for $200.000 is probably just as bad. 

Our strength used to be in the open class races with even fields of well known consistent horses. These days the big money seems to go to age group races with hot favs, which don't seem to have a lot of upside. You wonder whether the allocation of stakes money might need to be reconsidered.

You only have to look back on some of the open class fields from 30 years ago to see the same horses racing against each other consistently year after year. Punters need horses they are familiar with. We seem to be miles away from that these days.

True,it always helps to have context of how things have come to be,and where you are heading.

But decisions need to be based not only on good intentions,but reality.

Edited January 2, 2023 by the galah

[Gammalite]

I just don't get this huge worry about the size of the field. 

There's been 'small' fields all year at Auckland?? . The Thames Summer Cup (worth about 50k like Franklin Cup) had only 7 runners in it in mid- December. 'Copy That' won it easy off 30m behind, beating a very low ranked horse . (Hey Bartender 5 wins from 10 starts). Why a horse with that few starts/wins has to take on Copy That is a mind-boggling mystery. (Rush to Aus with it is the best thing for that horse James Stormont) . Still Copy That was impressive and scared off opponents for this next assignment. Scrap the race because he scared off opponents this time round ?? seems so silly to me. Doesn't everyone love a double Nz Cup winner and want to go to races to see him ? Lazarus did the same and must of had the same effect on fields at the time ?

The Group 1 'Queens of Hearts' had a field of 8 on that mid Dec Auckland program . If it was just 4 acceptors would you scrap it and use the 90k elsewhere.? no , let those that want to have a go get the glory !! Luckily  7 fillies turned up from the South island to give it a crack. The local horse ran a good 3rd too.  The Southerners Came BECAUSE the Prizemoney was good . this is a good thing. Is Not a waste of money giving it to the Best around. They deserve their big paydays. 

And the betting Public deserve to see the best go round even if the race is a betting disaster. Winx was always $1.10 fav, scared the opponents off, but 20,000 extra patrons went to the course on the days she raced !!  Promote your good horses ..  

   

[Brodie]

Yes Winx would have scared off some opponents but there were always enough racing her and the races she ran in always had a massive stake, so running second or third was always well worth lining up.

The difference is that harness racing can not afford to be running races with good stakes when betting is low, and therefore a loss making race!

Things are looking very dire for racing in the North Island in the future.

I note it is so bad that Cheree Wigg has brought a team down from Auckland to race in the Central!

[the galah]

52 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

I just don't get this huge worry about the size of the field. 

There's been 'small' fields all year at Auckland?? . The Thames Summer Cup (worth about 50k like Franklin Cup) had only 7 runners in it in mid- December. 'Copy That' won it easy off 30m behind, beating a very low ranked horse . (Hey Bartender 5 wins from 10 starts). Why a horse with that few starts/wins has to take on Copy That is a mind-boggling mystery. (Rush to Aus with it is the best thing for that horse James Stormont) . Still Copy That was impressive and scared off opponents for this next assignment. Scrap the race because he scared off opponents this time round ?? seems so silly to me. Doesn't everyone love a double Nz Cup winner and want to go to races to see him ? Lazarus did the same and must of had the same effect on fields at the time ?

The Group 1 'Queens of Hearts' had a field of 8 on that mid Dec Auckland program . If it was just 4 acceptors would you scrap it and use the 90k elsewhere.? no , let those that want to have a go get the glory !! Luckily  7 fillies turned up from the South island to give it a crack. The local horse ran a good 3rd too.  The Southerners Came BECAUSE the Prizemoney was good . this is a good thing. Is Not a waste of money giving it to the Best around. They deserve their big paydays. 

And the betting Public deserve to see the best go round even if the race is a betting disaster. Winx was always $1.10 fav, scared the opponents off, but 20,000 extra patrons went to the course on the days she raced !!  Promote your good horses ..  

   

We will have to agree to disagree.

But people numbers that turn up to aucklands christmas meeting to watch the races which cater for the good horses are just a drop in the ocean when compared to christmas  race meetings like oamakau,motukara,westport,nelson,gore,etc.

 

And what do these christmas race meetings all have in common...

They all cater for the lower grade horses ,with a country cup race.

And its turnover from these very meetings that provides some of the income to provide the bigger stakes for the higher grade,low number horse races.

So if your going to hit the incomes of those that provide the horses for these lower grade meetings at this time of year,by cancelling their bread and butter meetings where they earn the money to keep going ,as they have in may and as they have in southland, then don't have the bean counters at hrnz patronise those people with their double standards of what justifies races to be run or not.

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by the galah

[the galah]

4 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Yes Winx would have scared off some opponents but there were always enough racing her and the races she ran in always had a massive stake, so running second or third was always well worth lining up.

The difference is that harness racing can not afford to be running races with good stakes when betting is low, and therefore a loss making race!

Things are looking very dire for racing in the North Island in the future.

I note it is so bad that Cheree Wigg has brought a team down from Auckland to race in the Central!

I think miss wigg may live down in canterbury these days brodie. She has an association with the n edge stable i think.A welcome edition to canterbury training ranks and a very good amateur driver. 

[Brodie]

1 minute ago, the galah said:

I think miss wigg may live down in canterbury these days brodie. She has an association with the n edge stable i think.A welcome edition to canterbury training ranks and a very good amateur driver. 

Did not know that Galah.

If that is the case then she is a welcome addition to the Canterbury training and amateur driving ranks.

Writing on the wall for Auckland as I am sure trainers like Ray Green will be giving it away in the next year or two.

There just is not any new ones coming into the industry up there, and stakes are far too high for what we are getting!