Kumara Gone

[Joe Bloggs]

1 hour ago, aquaman said:

When I got my license back in the 60's it was one car length for every 10mph.

Model T Ford?

[curious]

5 minutes ago, nomates said:

Haha , most of them don't know what pace they're going now ,

And most of those that do don't know what to do about it

[Reefton]

15 hours ago, curious said:

Yes but that's just hearsay from one trainer. Someone in the club must have arranged that and know and be able to confirm that the policy was followed and what the outcome of that was surely?

"A Club must arrange for a track gallop on the course on the morning of the race meeting to reconfirm the declared track rating"

Not to my knowledge the Club didn't but I know horses galloped that morning.  Kumara on the other hand has no stabling so not sure they had horses gallop that morning

[The Centaur]

On 7/01/2023 at 10:07 AM, Reefton said:

Anyway the party will go on regardless and even if they cancel after one race the on course turnover(inter track) will still be higher than anything else in the NZ for the year to date(except maybe Railway Day)

I was reading some newspapers from the seventies and came across an article where Kumara was on the point of being closed and it was only Muldoon's politicking that enabled it to carry on. As a consequence there were howls of disgust about the government's interference in racing.

[Reefton]

10 hours ago, The Centaur said:

I was reading some newspapers from the seventies and came across an article where Kumara was on the point of being closed and it was only Muldoon's politicking that enabled it to carry on. As a consequence there were howls of disgust about the government's interference in racing.

Those were the days of the District Committees and Greymouth (the 'Metropolitan Club'  of the district) had its foot firmly on Kumara's throat.  Kumara was nowhere near the meeting in those days it is now - in fact the  Kumara /Hokitika weekend as it was then had a competing South Island Meeting at Omakau.

The District Committee structure was that the top club had one more delegate than all the others combined(one each) so the Metro Club got everything(including all the money ex the Amenities fund - hence the big Clubs getting everything paid for by the Racing Authority.  Greymouth stabling, Admin block and grandstand were all 100% funded while the rest of us got nought).  Ditto Riccarton Wellington Te Rapa and Ellerslie of course

The top club provided the District Committee secretary as well(I was it for a while as the Greymouth Secretary) but by my time the Amenities fund was pretty well used up(though they still pumped dosh into the big clubs).  In the time you refer to the head of the District Committee (I won't name him) was a centralisation fanatic and also the delegate to the Racing Conference.  Hence Kumara  being under serious threat(as well as the rest of us).  They wanted to race everything at Omoto.   You have to remember the likes of Hororata and Amberley had something similar happen.As did Beaumont & Tapanui

By my time the Chair and delegate was Jack O'Donnell who was a bit more balanced in his views - and of course the 'Kumara' event had exploded in popularity by then so they could not have done anything anyway.

Kumara really went berserk when Mobil adopted them.  At one stage they had a tent the size of a football field.  Kumara even built a building to be the entrance to it(which still stands).

Kumara outdid Wellington offcourse last weekend and did seven times as much oncourse.  Something is very very wrong here when some guy is arbitrarily deciding that the meeting was not going ahead.  Luckily they stood up to him 

 

 

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Simple question for you Reefton, did you ever consider putting your hand up as an applicant for CEO NZTR?.......if not, why not, if it's not a too intrusive question........when I look at the talentless people running/or not running NZ Racing it beggars belief that you wouldn't have been a shoe in., and do the job a million times better than this mob!

Most of the problems would have been solved, or at least addressed, with professionalism, passion, honesty, and transparency........there you go......Just saying.......and by the way I'll PM you my address so you can send the cheque....

[Doomed]

4 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Simple question for you Reefton, did you ever consider putting your hand up as an applicant for CEO NZTR?.......if not, why not, if it's not a too intrusive question........when I look at the talentless people running/or not running NZ Racing it beggars belief that you wouldn't have been a shoe in., and do the job a million times better than this mob!

Most of the problems would have been solved, or at least addressed, with professionalism, passion, honesty, and transparency........there you go......Just saying.......and by the way I'll PM you my address so you can send the cheque....

I think you have answered your own question. Reefton would fall at the first hurdle. Talentless is the number one criteria.

[Doomed]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

 

Kumara outdid Wellington offcourse last weekend and did seven times as much oncourse.  Something is very very wrong here when some guy is arbitrarily deciding that the meeting was not going ahead.  Luckily they stood up to him 

 

 

 

That's unbelievable really. No wonder they are trying to stop other clubs making Wgtn look bad. What were the respective on and off course turnovers at both clubs? It is a great pity they aren't available for all to see these days.

I think the feeling is that clubs like Kumara might do well as an on course novelty, but to top Trentham off course as well is staggering. And Trentham had the advantage of being able to access the Wgtn market while also attracting thousands of people from Marton.

[Doomed]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

Those were the days of the District Committees and Greymouth (the 'Metropolitan Club'  of the district) had its foot firmly on Kumara's throat.  Kumara was nowhere near the meeting in those days it is now - in fact the  Kumara /Hokitika weekend as it was then had a competing South Island Meeting at Omakau.

The District Committee structure was that the top club had one more delegate than all the others combined(one each) so the Metro Club got everything(including all the money ex the Amenities fund - hence the big Clubs getting everything paid for by the Racing Authority.  Greymouth stabling, Admin block and grandstand were all 100% funded while the rest of us got nought).  Ditto Riccarton Wellington Te Rapa and Ellerslie of course

The top club provided the District Committee secretary as well(I was it for a while as the Greymouth Secretary) but by my time the Amenities fund was pretty well used up(though they still pumped dosh into the big clubs).  In the time you refer to the head of the District Committee (I won't name him) was a centralisation fanatic and also the delegate to the Racing Conference.  Hence Kumara  being under serious threat(as well as the rest of us).  They wanted to race everything at Omoto.   You have to remember the likes of Hororata and Amberley had something similar happen.As did Beaumont & Tapanui

By my time the Chair and delegate was Jack O'Donnell who was a bit more balanced in his views - and of course the 'Kumara' event had exploded in popularity by then so they could not have done anything anyway.

Kumara really went berserk when Mobil adopted them.  At one stage they had a tent the size of a football field.  Kumara even built a building to be the entrance to it(which still stands).

Kumara outdid Wellington offcourse last weekend and did seven times as much oncourse.  Something is very very wrong here when some guy is arbitrarily deciding that the meeting was not going ahead.  Luckily they stood up to him 

 

 

 

I agree with your general sentiment, but I don't think the bais towards the Metropolitan clubs was quite that bad. Yes, they did get quite a lot of facilities built for them, largely because they were usually the bigger clubs in bigger population centres, but some smaller clubs also got stands built etc, such as new grandstands at Ashburton and Banks Peninsula.

There was never a real desire to have everyone race at Omoto, as of course that isn't an ideal location being built in a riverbed. The proposal during the 80s, if I recall correctly, was to build a brand new, centrally located racetrack on the coast to service all three clubs. Unfortunately the clubs couldn't agree on the concept or a location so the money was reluctantly spent on Omoto instead. 

Given Kumara's current success perhaps it has it has worked out ok, but they still do need the other two clubs to form a viable circuit.

[Reefton]

17 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Simple question for you Reefton, did you ever consider putting your hand up as an applicant for CEO NZTR?.......if not, why not, if it's not a too intrusive question........when I look at the talentless people running/or not running NZ Racing it beggars belief that you wouldn't have been a shoe in., and do the job a million times better than this mob!

Most of the problems would have been solved, or at least addressed, with professionalism, passion, honesty, and transparency........there you go......Just saying.......and by the way I'll PM you my address so you can send the cheque....

Couple of things  (1) I am not prepared to blatantly lie to make my CV look better than it is(not that I have a CV - never needed one) (2) I am pretty settled where I am even if it rains a lot and most importantly (3) wrong surname

Oh and plus I am a bad tempered prick with absolute zero tolerance for wankers

And also like I often say - I know all about what is wrong in this game but I would hate the job of trying to fix it

[Bloke]

13 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Simple question for you Reefton, did you ever consider putting your hand up as an applicant for CEO NZTR?.......if not, why not, if it's not a too intrusive question........when I look at the talentless people running/or not running NZ Racing it beggars belief that you wouldn't have been a shoe in., and do the job a million times better than this mob!

Most of the problems would have been solved, or at least addressed, with professionalism, passion, honesty, and transparency........there you go......Just saying.......and by the way I'll PM you my address so you can send the cheque....

The CEO has to meet the agenda of the Members' Council and Reefton does not meet that agenda. He also is a man of integrity so would stand up to the Old Boys Network. Oh no they would not like that.

[Doomed]

4 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Couple of things  (1) I am not prepared to blatantly lie to make my CV look better than it is(not that I have a CV - never needed one) (2) I am pretty settled where I am even if it rains a lot and most importantly (3) wrong surname

Oh and plus I am a bad tempered prick with absolute zero tolerance for wankers

And also like I often say - I know all about what is wrong in this game but I would hate the job of trying to fix it

I think most of us on here these days, if we are being honest, would have to agree we have no idea how to fix the current debacle. But then again none of us were responsible for creating the mess in the first place. All of those who created the mess have long since pissed off without a care in the world and quite probably a golden handshake.

At the same time, while we may not have the perfect solution we can all see that the current lot have absolutely no idea.

[Reefton]

1 minute ago, Doomed said:

I agree with your general sentiment, but I don't think the bais towards the Metropolitan clubs was quite that bad. Yes, they did get quite a lot of facilities built for them, largely because they were usually the bigger clubs in bigger population centres, but some smaller clubs also got stands built etc, such as new grandstands at Ashburton and Banks Peninsula.

There was never a real desire to have everyone race at Omoto, as of course that isn't an ideal location being built in a riverbed. The proposal during the 80s, if I recall correctly, was to build a brand new, centrally located racetrack on the coast to service all three clubs. Unfortunately the clubs couldn't agree on the concept or a location so the money was reluctantly spent on Omoto instead. 

Given Kumara's current success perhaps it has it has worked out ok, but they still do need the other two clubs to form a viable circuit.

Let me assure you the bloke concerned would have been desperate to get the lot to Omoto.   There has in my time never been a proposal to create a new venue OTHER THAN the one I came up with ten or so years back(and which nobody showed any interest).

Up the Grey Valley was talked about but certainly not officially.  It would have been too far from the population anyway

Ashburton and Motukarara might have got grandstands but none of the other Coast Clubs got a brass razoo from the Amenities fund(and even if the BRC and ARC they did get dosh it will have been  a pittance compared to what Riccarton has had lavished on it)

The current Coast circuit relies heavily on Omoto and Reefton because we have the stabling(in our case we paid for it - in theirs the industry paid for it).  Essentially that is how I saved Reefton - by telling Bernard if they had to evacuate Omoto because of flooding and they had eliminated Westland and Reefton then there was no way Reefton racecourse would allow horses to relocate there.  And if it was bad enough to close the roads out of the province that might become an animal welfare issue

 

 

[Reefton]

26 minutes ago, Doomed said:

That's unbelievable really. No wonder they are trying to stop other clubs making Wgtn look bad. What were the respective on and off course turnovers at both clubs? It is a great pity they aren't available for all to see these days.

I think the feeling is that clubs like Kumara might do well as an on course novelty, but to top Trentham off course as well is staggering. And Trentham had the advantage of being able to access the Wgtn market while also attracting thousands of people from Marton.

According to last night's Grey Star the two offcourse turnovers were about $2.4m each(Kumara slightly higher). On course Kumara $236k Marton $35k.  Kumara packed to the gunnels Trentham you could fire a scattergun cannon and not hit anyone

You cannot get it through to them that the industry desperately needs these days that are attractive to the general public.  If one in twenty of those kids at Kumara thinks 'gee I like this game' racing is the winner.  Karaka Millions night or NZ Cup day it would be lucky if one in twenty can even remember it the next day

 

[nomates]

2 hours ago, Reefton said:

Kumara outdid Wellington offcourse last weekend and did seven times as much oncourse.  Something is very very wrong here when some guy is arbitrarily deciding that the meeting was not going ahead.  Luckily they stood up to him 

 

They need to be running every week at Kumara going on those figures , might help offset some of that 8.5mil deficit .

Might have been one of the reasons they were trying to can the meeting , they knew they were going to get their pants pulled down over the metropolitan v country argument .

Those figures are very embarrassing , and anyone worth their salt in head office should be questioning the direction they are trying to take NZ racing .

Won't happen of course .

[nomates]

46 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Oh and plus I am a bad tempered prick with absolute zero tolerance for wankers

 

If that was a criteria you would have lost out to Joe anyway , would have done you like a dogs dinner .

[nomates]

42 minutes ago, Doomed said:

I think most of us on here these days, if we are being honest, would have to agree we have no idea how to fix the current debacle. But then again none of us were responsible for creating the mess in the first place. All of those who created the mess have long since pissed off without a care in the world and quite probably a golden handshake.

At the same time, while we may not have the perfect solution we can all see that the current lot have absolutely no idea.

This will never be a one man solve , but it needs one man who can come in and bring everyone together as an industry , together the problems can be solved , but it has to be an industry driven project .

The man we need is a clone of V'Landy's , then the whales would get a fucken fright . 

[nomates]

32 minutes ago, Reefton said:

If one in twenty of those kids at Kumara thinks 'gee I like this game' racing is the winner.  

Hence the need for the Gisborne's , Wairoa's , Blenheim, Nelson , and any other back water where the young only got exposed that once or twice a year .

[nomates]

This is where NZTR are so myopic and insular , i don't have all the solutions to racing's ails , but , i have a shit load of ideas , as so many on here and elsewhere thruout the industry have . By throwing those ideas out there then they are there for others to improve on , expand on , add or subtract to .

That is how things can be turned around , it will never happen whilst a small band of erstwhile money grabbing , self interested sycophants keep thinking they have all the solutions , and closing the doors to other industry participants .

[Reefton]

16 minutes ago, nomates said:

They need to be running every week at Kumara going on those figures , might help offset some of that 8.5mil deficit .

Might have been one of the reasons they were trying to can the meeting , they knew they were going to get their pants pulled down over the metropolitan v country argument .

Those figures are very embarrassing , and anyone worth their salt in head office should be questioning the direction they are trying to take NZ racing .

Won't happen of course .

I said to a few that day 'the view of this racecourse crowd on Trackside will be having them cringing given there will be not a soul in sight at Trentham'. 

[nomates]

As you can see i have had my lunch and the batteries are on full charge , i will slow down , eventually .

[Special Agent]

1 minute ago, nomates said:

This is where NZTR are so myopic and insular , i don't have all the solutions to racing's ails , but , i have a shit load of ideas , as so many on here and elsewhere thruout the industry have . By throwing those ideas out there then they are there for others to improve on , expand on , add or subtract to .

That is how things can be turned around , it will never happen whilst a small band of erstwhile money grabbing , self interested sycophants keep thinking they have all the solutions , and closing the doors to other industry participants .

Agree.  Just like your local club.

[Doomed]

35 minutes ago, Reefton said:

According to last night's Grey Star the two offcourse turnovers were about $2.4m each(Kumara slightly higher). On course Kumara $236k Marton $35k.  Kumara packed to the gunnels Trentham you could fire a scattergun cannon and not hit anyone

You cannot get it through to them that the industry desperately needs these days that are attractive to the general public.  If one in twenty of those kids at Kumara thinks 'gee I like this game' racing is the winner.  Karaka Millions night or NZ Cup day it would be lucky if one in twenty can even remember it the next day

 

$35,000! That is beyond embarrassing. And yet there is never any mention about concern for on course performances at some of our bigger tracks. Is it of no concern to NZTR? 30 odd years ago the club would have been getting a letter from NZTR asking them to please explain. At $100 per head that is about 350 people on course. Half of them would have come from Marton one presumes, so only about 175 people from all of Wgtn.

83 horses raced at the meeting, if each of them had one owner present that means not much over 200 of the general public in attendance, and that assumes no trainers betting.

The worst thing about that is the total lack of atmosphere on course. If someone had travelled a couple of hours to get there, at some expense, they arrive and find no one else there. They must think what a fool am I , I won't be going to that trouble again.

[nomates]

8 minutes ago, Reefton said:

I said to a few that day 'the view of this racecourse crowd on Trackside will be having them cringing given there will be not a soul in sight at Trentham'. 

You are assuming any were watching , they could just as easily have been playing golf , lawn bowls , cribbage even , nothing would surprise me seeing as how little they understand racing .

[Doomed]

With that sized crowd at Trentham you do have to wonder why the meeting wasn't transferred to Woodville. They would have almost certainly been able to do just as much turnover with much less cost to the industry and shorter travelling distances for almost all concerned. And it is the old Woodville date anyhow.

Perhaps there could be a prize draw for every member of the public who attends every Trentham meeting this month. There would only be about 10 of them. You could gather them all together in the birdcage on Cup Day and one lucky (hardy) soul could win a car or something, or life membership of the Wgtn RC, their choice.