Race Fixing? Lets Name The Races!!

[Newmarket]

This is our big chance. If they are looking at a stack of races to see whats fishy and whats not, lets give them the info. I will start with the obvious one. 

Check betting figures on that June 2017 day, you know, the stable that won 3 races, then they were all disqualified later. The TAB are always telling us about the punters that put $2k, $5k or whatever on, so they must have records showing bets. Give me confidence on this, because from memory, these horses were very short and it was fishy from the start. 

Come on, any dodgy drives or suspicous actions, lets post it. Lets have a clean out! 

[Brodie]

Newmarket let’s not continue trying to hammer  the harness game as it has had a hammering all week.

We need to all hang in to keep the industry alive or this could be the death knell for it.

I am not condoning race fixing but I don’t beleive it is that common, although I will eat humble pie and be very disappointed if it is rampant!

The drugs thing is a bit of a problem but as I say it has a,ways been very common in racing being both harness and Gallops.

Young ones nowadays are all under pressure from peer pressure to try them I  understand.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Brodie

[Rangatira]

2 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Check betting figures on that June 2017 day, you know, the stable that won 3 races, then they were all disqualified later. The TAB are always telling us about the punters that put $2k, $5k or whatever on, so they must have records showing bets. Give me confidence on this, because from memory, these horses were very short and it was fishy from the start. 

i remain unconvinced that episode had anything to do with betting

[Chief Stipe]

I'm putting together a compilation of race video extracts where the driver of the leading horse takes more than a 1 second look behind to see who's outside or coming round.  Amazing the amount of material available.

[Newmarket]

6 hours ago, Rangatira said:

i remain unconvinced that episode had anything to do with betting

So, 

Somebody dopes horses, all well supported, all win, all disqualified and its not fishy? 

Im not convinced. For a start the RIU still dont know who did it? 

Well, now that the police are involved, i really hope they look at betting patterns on the day. 

Most think that someone outside stable went to great efforts to drug these nags, for no gain, other than to annoy stable??

FFS, that makes no sense. 

[Rangatira]

28 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

Most think that someone outside stable went to great efforts to drug these nags, for no gain, other than to annoy stable??

FFS, that makes no sense. 

that is exactly my read and one of the names makes even makes less sense than no sense

maybe 20 years ago you might administer caffeine to enhance a horses performance but not nowdays

[Nowornever]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm putting together a compilation of race video extracts where the driver of the leading horse takes more than a 1 second look behind to see who's outside or coming round.  Amazing the amount of material available.

If I was a driver and in front I would be having a look to see where my toughest opposition was too. Hard to argue anything sinister  happening with just looking around. 

[Newmarket]

37 minutes ago, Nowornever said:

If I was a driver and in front I would be having a look to see where my toughest opposition was too. Hard to argue anything sinister  happening with just looking around. 

I only used that one example. Yes i know drivers look around, 

[Nowornever]

1 minute ago, Newmarket said:

I only used that one example. Yes i know drivers look around, 

If it was backed up by phone conversations,emails,texts with drivers telling each other how they will drive the race out then pretty damming evidence. 

[Taku Umanga]

9 hours ago, Brodie said:

Newmarket let’s not continue trying to hammer  the harness game as it has had a hammering all week.

We need to all hang in to keep the industry alive or this could be the death knell for it.

I am not condoning race fixing but I don’t beleive it is that common, although I will eat humble pie and be very disappointed if it is rampant!

The drugs thing is a bit of a problem but as I say it has a,ways been very common in racing being both harness and Gallops.

Young ones nowadays are all under pressure from peer pressure to try them I  understand.

 

 

Natalie's old enough to know better ..... as is the unnamed (yeah right) 49 year old .....

[Rangatira]

2 hours ago, Nowornever said:

If I was a driver and in front I would be having a look to see where my toughest opposition was too. Hard to argue anything sinister  happening with just looking around. 

the blair glare

[Arsenic]

The way things are going I might have to buy a new computer.

Looks like I’ll need more storage space for all these jacked races

[Chief Stipe]

7 hours ago, Nowornever said:

If it was backed up by phone conversations,emails,texts with drivers telling each other how they will drive the race out then pretty damming evidence. 

Yes but you could argue they achieved the best result for the punters.  They didn't cut each other's throats having a speed duel in front.

Isn't it driving 101 that when a better horse comes up alongside you that you hand up because you know they are unlikely to?  You get the trail and if you pip the favourite everyone says "great drive"?

I think legally this is going to turn into a circus.  The only way to remove doubt is to run races in lanes like the Olympic 400m!

[Newmarket]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yes but you could argue they achieved the best result for the punters.  They didn't cut each other's throats having a speed duel in front.

Isn't it driving 101 that when a better horse comes up alongside you that you hand up because you know they are unlikely to?  You get the trail and if you pip the favourite everyone says "great drive"?

I think legally this is going to turn into a circus.  The only way to remove doubt is to run races in lanes like the Olympic 400m!

Most important rule in racing. Drivers/ Jockeys must  give their horse every possible chance of winning. 

[Chief Stipe]

I've just realised I must be in the inner circle as I do a damn sight better at picking harness winners than gallopers!

[Chief Stipe]

Actually this reminds of my old man.  A horse lover first - used to gallop ponies with his mates up and down the Blaketown beach.  Anyway he got into Harness racing probably because even then it was a cheaper option for the average bloke.

Loyal man my dad - turns out my mother was a reli of some pretty good horse trainers so dad invested.  Had a lot of success - every horse he owned won a race.  Never had a champion if  only because injury and bad luck stopped his horses from reaching their full potential.

So back to the topic at hand - dads great racing era was in the 70's and early 80's.  He liked a good punt.  So the trick as an owner was to set the horse up for the big win.  In those days the first was often the best but later on you could place your horse on fitness and class to set up a killing.

The trainer would ring after the last fast work and give the oil on his horse and the other stable runners.  "Get On" was the phrase to be heard.

So he would wander down to the TAB and put the undeclared cash on pick up his yellow hand written tickets and 90% of the time clean up.

Unfortunately he liked to tell his mates the "oil" and as I argued with him not to I'm sure the divi's were smaller than they could have been.

Unfortunately it was a small town and we had a manual phone exchange.  We were on a party line our number 895M - damn sight harder to remember numbers now!  But it turns out with a party line and a manual exchange and lax privacy laws you didn't need to wire tap.  So after a while of dad and his mates cleaning up the whole town was in on it!

Those were the true race fixing days!

[Chief Stipe]

LOL just thought of some more stories regarding pulling the wool over a few unofficial bookies.

[pete]

19 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Actually this reminds of my old man.  A horse lover first - used to gallop ponies with his mates up and down the Blaketown beach.  Anyway he got into Harness racing probably because even then it was a cheaper option for the average bloke.

Loyal man my dad - turns out my mother was a reli of some pretty good horse trainers so dad invested.  Had a lot of success - every horse he owned won a race.  Never had a champion if  only because injury and bad luck stopped his horses from reaching their full potential.

So back to the topic at hand - dads great racing era was in the 70's and early 80's.  He liked a good punt.  So the trick as an owner was to set the horse up for the big win.  In those days the first was often the best but later on you could place your horse on fitness and class to set up a killing.

The trainer would ring after the last fast work and give the oil on his horse and the other stable runners.  "Get On" was the phrase to be heard.

So he would wander down to the TAB and put the undeclared cash on pick up his yellow hand written tickets and 90% of the time clean up.

Unfortunately he liked to tell his mates the "oil" and as I argued with him not to I'm sure the divi's were smaller than they could have been.

Unfortunately it was a small town and we had a manual phone exchange.  We were on a party line our number 895M - damn sight harder to remember numbers now!  But it turns out with a party line and a manual exchange and lax privacy laws you didn't need to wire tap.  So after a while of dad and his mates cleaning up the whole town was in on it!

Those were the true race fixing days!

Jeez those bloody party lines. We lived in Titirangi Auckland in the mid 1960s and our number was 874M. Each letter had a different sequence of rings to identify it. If you were lucky enough to pick up the phone and find the gobby neighbours weren't gasbagging on it a voice used to say 'Number please'.

Happy days. The world was a much simpler place then and racing thrived.

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

Yeah we actually learnt Morse code without realising it.

[Kakama]

I am sure they will have plenty phone/ text/ betting records that they are comparing with races.

Have a look at sheriff's race after he won derby....see if any big bets went astray when alto Orlando didn't win...

[hesi]

15 hours ago, pete said:

Jeez those bloody party lines. We lived in Titirangi Auckland in the mid 1960s and our number was 874M. Each letter had a different sequence of rings to identify it. If you were lucky enough to pick up the phone and find the gobby neighbours weren't gasbagging on it a voice used to say 'Number please'.

Happy days. The world was a much simpler place then and racing thrived.

 

 

God that brings back a few memories, our number was 1511M, down in Te Atatu South, when it was quite a nice place to live, then those Ponsonby wankers put their own spin on the West, and we got the stigma of crap like Outrageous Misfortune.  TAB in Henderson, yellow duplicate tickets, gas was ten pence a litre, women were real etc etc etc

Edited September 7, 2018 by hesi

[hesi]

41 minutes ago, Kakama said:

I am sure they will have plenty phone/ text/ betting records that they are comparing with races.

Have a look at sheriff's race after he won derby....see if any big bets went astray when alto Orlando didn't win...

Yep, they haven't been playing with themselves and just looking at videos for the last 17 months

[Richie]

17 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

 LOL just thought of some more stories regarding pulling the wool over a few unofficial bookies.

Yeah there were a few rorts on the Nelson/Blenheim circuits in the late 80s early 90s,I used to love going up there with the stable horses.Was so easy to set a horse up for a bet back then.Hug the rails first day nd not get a run finish nearly last and then win by 3 lengths 2nd day.

[Turny]

15 minutes ago, Richie said:

Yeah there were a few rorts on the Nelson/Blenheim circuits in the late 80s early 90s,I used to love going up there with the stable horses.Was so easy to set a horse up for a bet back then.Hug the rails first day nd not get a run finish nearly last and then win by 3 lengths 2nd day.

So the cheating has been going on for years Richie - what a great advert for the Industry - no wonder Cheats on Seats was coined

Very sad post mate

[Chief Stipe]

22 minutes ago, Turny said:

So the cheating has been going on for years Richie - what a great advert for the Industry - no wonder Cheats on Seats was coined

Very sad post mate

It was a big grass track in those days with big fields.  Then as it is today it was hard to make a profit racing a horse.  Setting your horse up was all part of the game and the fun in the lower grades but you needed to have a good one to do it successfully.  I wouldn't call it cheating as such.  Giving your horse a soft run for one day on a long summer circuit often happened especially if you were avoiding a horse as good with a better draw.