junior driver half points

[the galah]

When you look at how the new half points thing works for junior driven winners,the only conclusion you can come to is that they will encourage and help the junior drivers have increased participation,but they will also provide an opportunity for some trainers to take advantage of a rule which makes a joke of the handicapping system being fair and will encourage others to become disillusioned. Its just like the old penalty free 2 and 3yo wins system,but this time its the juniors getting the preferential treatment.

Take the horse lizzie richter for example. Hypothetically If it were to win its next 3 starts,that would make it 6 wins in a row if driven by the same junior driver. And that would take it to R50.And then compare that to a horse winning its first start at the races. It would also be given an identical R50 for just the one win. 

Now i know that lizzie richter ran a lot of unplaced runs to get to its lower rating before it started its winning streak,but how is it fair having a system which gives so much favoritism based solely on the thinking that you need to give juniors the incentive to stay in the industry.

Whenever you give preferential treatment to one group it comes at the expense of another.Thats how these things work.

To me,people who are making decisions like this one either aren't too bright or simply don't care whether others look at  what they have done and say whats the point.  

Edited February 2, 2023 by the galah

[Rangatira]

32 minutes ago, the galah said:

Whenever you give preferential treatment to one group it comes at the expense of another.Thats how these things work.

Border Control and Beaudiene Bad Babe absolutely milked it back in the day.

[Brodie]

6 hours ago, the galah said:

When you look at how the new half points thing works for junior driven winners,the only conclusion you can come to is that they will encourage and help the junior drivers have increased participation,but they will also provide an opportunity for some trainers to take advantage of a rule which makes a joke of the handicapping system being fair and will encourage others to become disillusioned. Its just like the old penalty free 2 and 3yo wins system,but this time its the juniors getting the preferential treatment.

Take the horse lizzie richter for example. Hypothetically If it were to win its next 3 starts,that would make it 6 wins in a row if driven by the same junior driver. And that would take it to R50.And then compare that to a horse winning its first start at the races. It would also be given an identical R50 for just the one win. 

Now i know that lizzie richter ran a lot of unplaced runs to get to its lower rating before it started its winning streak,but how is it fair having a system which gives so much favoritism based solely on the thinking that you need to give juniors the incentive to stay in the industry.

Whenever you give preferential treatment to one group it comes at the expense of another.Thats how these things work.

To me,people who are making decisions like this one either aren't too bright or simply don't care whether others look at  what they have done and say whats the point.  

The handicapping system they operate with at the moment doesn’t work.

when you have 10 win horses racing 1 win horses seems crazy.

Yes it keeps some horses racing and earning money but it also drives owners to sell overseas.

 

[the galah]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

The handicapping system they operate with at the moment doesn’t work.

when you have 10 win horses racing 1 win horses seems crazy.

Yes it keeps some horses racing and earning money but it also drives owners to sell overseas.

 

They have always said they are trying to provide a handicapping system which treats all horses as fairly as possible and provide races where horses can compete against those of reasonably similar ability and form..

So thats what they have said is their objective.Its in writing on their website. 

Well allowing unlimited half penalties for any horse that wins,as long as they are driven by a junior with 50 or under lifetime wins,is clearly making a mockery of their own stated objectives. Case in point-lizzie richter.

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by the galah

[Brodie]

There has to be some system that encourages Juniors to get drives so they get experience.

Maybe more Junior drivers races being held but it won’t work in the North as they haven’t enough going ones with licenses.

The point is that there are several Juniors that are far better than many of the Senior drivers and will continue to get heaps of drives.

This is great that they can get drives but yes it does come at the expenses of the other drivers.

Maybe the concessions should be for Juniors under say 30 wins or such.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Brodie

[Davis]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

There has to be some system that encourages Juniors to get drives so they get experience.

Maybe more Junior drivers races being held but it won’t work in the North as they haven’t enough going ones with licenses.

You are right about the North Island. I don't know what they can do up there to encourage junior drivers. I feel sorry for the likes of Alicia Harrison, who is a very good driver but gets few drives. She has driven around 70 winners which is great considering how few drives she gets. Unfortunately, for the likes of Miss Harrison there is not much future up north. 

[the galah]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

There has to be some system that encourages Juniors to get drives so they get experience.

Maybe more Junior drivers races being held but it won’t work in the North as they haven’t enough going ones with licenses.

The point is that there are several Juniors that are far better than many of the Senior drivers and will continue to get heaps of drives.

This is great that they can get drives but yes it does come at the expenses of the other drivers.

Maybe the concessions should be for Juniors under say 30 wins or such.

the answer is they should have put a cap on the number of half penalties any horse can receive. As simple as that.Why didn't they do that?

There are so many race conditions they could apply to any race which would give incentive for any trainer to put a junior on without compromising the integrity of their stated objective of the handicapping system.

But the point is when you give excessive preferential treatment to one group you do so at the expense of another.By providing an incentive to continue for one group ,you create a disincentive for another.Its just common sense.

As you have stated earlier,there is already many races where 1 win low lifetime start horses races against horses with double digit wins.Many people are already asking why do they bother. Now the powers to be have caused even more frustration to many. 

[the galah]

Just looking at the 4 south island race meetings this week.

Going through the fields it appears no trainers are using the junior drivers with half penalties any more than they would have before. 

The small number of juniors who fall into the category that its supposed to help,don't appear to have picked up any extra drives. When they are driving,its on horses they have driven previously before the half penalties.

In the future the likes of carter dalgety may get extra drives until he reaches 50 wins,but he doesn't need any extra help.

 

[AndrewFitzgerald]

6 hours ago, the galah said:

Just looking at the 4 south island race meetings this week.

Going through the fields it appears no trainers are using the junior drivers with half penalties any more than they would have before. 

The small number of juniors who fall into the category that its supposed to help,don't appear to have picked up any extra drives. When they are driving,its on horses they have driven previously before the half penalties.

In the future the likes of carter dalgety may get extra drives until he reaches 50 wins,but he doesn't need any extra help.

 

Max Hill driving a horse he's never driven before at Oamaru on Sunday - got himself another drive thanks to the potential of half points if successful.

[the galah]

3 hours ago, AndrewFitzgerald said:

Max Hill driving a horse he's never driven before at Oamaru on Sunday - got himself another drive thanks to the potential of half points if successful.

So you've swapped one junior concession driver for another concession driver.

That is a new drive for m hill,but i could argue that if thats why you put him on,then thats an example of the new half points system costing another junior with under 50 wins(yourself) a drive.You have after all driven it in its last 3 starts.  Good luck on sunday.

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by the galah

[Forbury]

On 2/2/2023 at 1:07 PM, the galah said:

When you look at how the new half points thing works for junior driven winners,the only conclusion you can come to is that they will encourage and help the junior drivers have increased participation,but they will also provide an opportunity for some trainers to take advantage of a rule which makes a joke of the handicapping system being fair and will encourage others to become disillusioned. Its just like the old penalty free 2 and 3yo wins system,but this time its the juniors getting the preferential treatment.

Take the horse lizzie richter for example. Hypothetically If it were to win its next 3 starts,that would make it 6 wins in a row if driven by the same junior driver. And that would take it to R50.And then compare that to a horse winning its first start at the races. It would also be given an identical R50 for just the one win. 

Now i know that lizzie richter ran a lot of unplaced runs to get to its lower rating before it started its winning streak,but how is it fair having a system which gives so much favoritism based solely on the thinking that you need to give juniors the incentive to stay in the industry.

Whenever you give preferential treatment to one group it comes at the expense of another.Thats how these things work.

To me,people who are making decisions like this one either aren't too bright or simply don't care whether others look at  what they have done and say whats the point.  

Totally agree with you.it has given Gemma a chance to show her talents otherwise she would not have gotten that chance

 

[the galah]

4 hours ago, Forbury said:

Totally agree with you.it has given Gemma a chance to show her talents otherwise she would not have gotten that chance

 

i actually was saying it hasn't made any difference.

All the horses she has been driving recently,she had been driving prior to any half penalties. She appears to work for mark jones and he has been giving her plenty of opportunities prior,and she has been doing a good job. The rate she is going she will only have another few months and the half penalities will no longer apply.

She did drive a couple of m house horses on friday,but they again had been driven by a junior in their previous starts anyway.

The main point i make though is hypothetically you could have a horse like lizzie richter winning 6 races in a row,yet because of the penalty concessions it would be given the same rating as a 1 start,1 win horse. How is that fair ?