hesi Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 David Ellis: Like other sports racing deserves government support 12 Sep, 2018 5:00am 4 minutes to read Does this great country actually want a racing and breeding industry? Photo / Supplied NZ Herald By: David Ellis COMMENT: Last Tuesday's editorial in the Herald on the racing industry in New Zealand lacked balance.The article stated racing shouldn't rely on the government for support but must "stand on its own four legs". Is this for real? Does this editor/journalist live on the same planet as I do? Don't you think the writer should have explained to readers the hundreds of millions of dollars the racing and breeding industry has paid governments of the day in tax over the past 10 years? Wouldn't that have put at least some balance into the story? Should the writer not have mentioned the 30,000 people employed in our industry? Think just how much PAYE tax the Government collects from this — not forgetting all the GST, ACC levies (which are exorbitant) etc. Did the writer mention the export dollars our industry generates at the yearling sales? In addition to all the private overseas sales of bloodstock? Did this writer think to mention the number of people who come to New Zealand from overseas for the yearling sales at Karaka — at a time of the year when Auckland is away on holiday and the eateries, hotels etc are empty? All of these visitors put a smile on the face of cab drivers, restaurateurs, airlines, hoteliers ... Did the writer criticise the Government for gifting the Rugby Union some $38 million for the Rugby World Cup? No. Did the writer criticise the Government for gifting NZ Cricket around $24m for the Cricket World Cup? No. Perhaps the writer criticised the Government for the millions and millions gifted to various America's Cup campaigns? No. What about a criticism of the Government for tiding the America's Cup team over with a transitional $5m to give them some help? — No. Did the writer remember that the Government gave the Michael Hill golf tournament around $3m? And speaking of golf, funding for Lydia Ko. I could go on and on but before I continue, I want to add that I think the above contributions were a good use of taxpayer money to promote New Zealand. However, to deny our industry, which does so much in terms of taxation and export revenue for government coffers is blatantly wrong. The New Zealand Herald needs to ask itself one question, does this great country actually want a racing and breeding industry? If the answer is "yes" then the Government has to stop the TAKE, TAKE, TAKE and contribute something back and encourage racing to double its export earnings and to go from employing 30,000 to 50,000. The New Zealand thoroughbred has a stellar worldwide reputation and our horses punch well above their weight on the world stage. Why on earth would we not want to see that reputation grow and flourish in the interests of this country as a whole — remember the industry employs young people — and many others — vets and their staff, farriers and theirs, physios, chiropractors, equine dentists, saddlery makers, equine pharmacists — it is a massive industry that is a huge contributor to this country's economy. I take my hat off to Winston Peters — the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Racing understands that without some assistance from government, the Government and Treasury will be the losers and we will finish up being a third-world racing jurisdiction. What a difference the all-weather tracks will make. In the Waikato we receive about 55 inches of rain a year, with probably 70 per cent of that coming in June through to September. The cost of having grass tracks for this period is huge. Just last week the trials for Saturday were cancelled, the races in Friday were cancelled. What is this costing owners, trainers, jockeys — the industry and the Government? A LOT OF MONEY. Not everything in the latest Messara Report might be able to be implemented but I strongly support 90 per cent of it. This is a unique opportunity — if the industry doesn't seize it, our future is very bleak. With this support — the industry will more than "stand on its own four legs" as the editor suggested it should, it will run on them. • David Ellis is Principal of Te Akau Stud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 Editorial: Messara report on racing offers familiar answers 4 Sep, 2018 5:00am 3 minutes to read Racing industry reviewer John Messara acknowledges he is proposing the same solution recommended as long ago as 1965 by the Reid Committee and endorsed in 1970 by the McCarthy royal commission. Photo / Getty Images NZ Herald The report on the racing industry commissioned by its minister, Winston Peters, and released last Friday, is one New Zealanders have read many times before. Peters' industry reviewer, an Australian racing administrator and breeder, John Messara, acknowledges he is proposing the same solution recommended as long ago as 1965 by the Reid Committee and endorsed in 1970 by the McCarthy royal commission. Namely, that New Zealand has too many race tracks. The theory is that with fewer tracks there would be more money in the industry to improve prize money, providing better returns for the owners, breeders and trainers of race horses and giving New Zealand a stronger bloodstock industry. Yet more than 50 years after this theory was advanced, there are still nearly 50 thoroughbred racecourses in New Zealand, many of them in small towns and holding just one or two meetings a year. And they are no more willing to close now than they were 50 years ago. Messara notes that racing clubs are not the owners of the land they use and suggest these assets should be vested in racing's regulator for the benefit of the thoroughbred industry. About 20 of tracks could be sold, he suggests, generating sufficient capital to renovate the remaining racing venues, few of which are up to the standard he believes racegoers and punters expect. Maybe so, but it seems a draconian solution to impose on small racing clubs that might not be the legal owners of the land but their local community regards it as their racecourse, which is how so many have survived. They may hold only one or two meetings a year but those race days are usually big events on the town's calendar, attracting visitors from near and far. Across all New Zealand courses, the average is 6.7 meetings a year which is only one fewer than the average for Australian courses. Messara prefers a comparison with Ireland, with a similar population to New Zealand, which has half the number of courses, an average of 13.7 meetings a year on each track and a thriving thoroughbred industry. The reason New Zealand's industry is in decline, producing fewer foals each year, probably lies deeper than the number of race tracks. As Messara observes, racing has become a largely off-course betting and entertainment attraction. His most controversial suggestion is likely to be outsourcing the TAB to an international betting operator to add to the TAB's products, upgrade its technology, improve its customer services and offer New Zealand punters, "a compelling global product". An industry financed by gambling will struggle to find favour with the present Government and a foreign takeover of the TAB might not appeal to Peters, but those are not reasons to resort to public funding and additional tax breaks. Industries need to find strength within themselves for sustained success. New Zealand's breeders and trainers have a good reputation in a global industry, they should look offshore for more of the returns they need. That would wake up local clubs and the TAB. Racing should not be relying on a politician for direction. It must stand on its own four legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) The Industry gets huge government support. The government owns the TAB and nearly all the net revenue from that goes to the industry. Yet they want more ffs. Edited September 12, 2018 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poisoned Dwarf Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 NO. Ellis didn't mention the ticket clipping, slave labour system or the wide scattering of fatherless kids and serious substance abuse so rampant caused by the sunset industry 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) "What a difference the all-weather tracks will make. In the Waikato we receive about 55 inches of rain a year, with probably 70 per cent of that coming in June through to September. The cost of having grass tracks for this period is huge. Just last week the trials for Saturday were cancelled, the races in Friday were cancelled. What is this costing owners, trainers, jockeys — the industry and the Government? A LOT OF MONEY." A wry smile after this comment from Ellis, after the Te Rapa track debacle Edited September 12, 2018 by hesi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxie Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Perhaps Mr Ellis should seek special sponsorship to have the World Cup of racing here. Seriously this 30,000 people employed figure gets me. Take Vets for example how many solely rely on the horse racing industry as their sole source of income? What have the fat cat breeding elite ever put back into racing other than screw with the handicapping system? Where's the worst track in New Zealand? That managed by the Breeders and they're blaming the rainfall. Of course it never rains in Hong Kong. How about if Mr Ellis spent $2m less at the sales and fixed the track themselves instead of relying on a handout? Of course by all accounts it really isn't $2m is it? As for assisting with World Cups and other international events from what I gather they more than pay that back. Plus nearly all of New Zealand gets enjoyment from them. Sadly the only racing event now that stops our nation for a few minutes each year runs on a Tuesday in another country. Oh finally Dave what did you do with the last Government handout from Winnie? Pissed it away on stakes! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Yip the "racing industry" doesn't deserve government support because it has pissed all that money way in the past led by people such as the Ellis's, Sargent's, Jackson's etc etc of this world. No evidence at all that it has led to economic growth or higher incomes for those at the bottom - middle. Throwing good money after bad 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 "What a difference the all-weather tracks will make. In the Waikato we receive about 55 inches of rain a year, with probably 70 per cent of that coming in June through to September. Checked his data 1981-2010 averages, and it is closer to 43 inches per year with 39% of it falling June through to September 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Also doesn't take into consideration evapotranspiration rates. Nor regional differences I suspect Te Rapa would have a different microenvironment than compared to one of Mr Ellis's farms. He also doesn't mention what ongoing subsidy he expects from Government to sustain these all weather tracks and associated facilities into the future. The financials don't add up. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Much as the industry is badly let down by the governments take take take mentality people like Ellis Tony Pike and Chittick have to realise that racing has become global and we have to accept our place in the global scheme of things. Punters can be watching Royal Ascot one minute Sha Tin and Kranji the next not to mention Randwick or Flemington, Winx, Enable, Stradivarious, Frankie Dettori Ryan Moore Zac Purton, Moriera or James Mac. Much as they might like to fantasize we are never going to be able to compete with those places because they have a punting culture and most importantly they have massive populations (the same reason the best golfers, athletes tennis players Rugby league and to an extent rugby players leave). We are never going to have a field of Winx's ridden by a range of Dettori equivalents here nor are we going to have a Galileo or Frankel shuttling here - it is just not going to happen. Sure we need to address the returns we get from wagering and sure we need to sort out tracks but none of that is going to elevate NZ racing to the International elite level and nor is it going to stop people selling horses when they get a huge offer. Its life - either accept it and get on with it or head over or up there and have a go to see how easy it is. AND the one thing we are at the truly elite level at internationally being Rugby - well how often do you see a chocka stadium except for the All Blacks????? Virtually never unless they take the teams to the provinces(which might be something worth thinking about for one WR Peters) Lets kick the TAB, NZRB and NZTR's arses and get that side sorted but otherwise guys make the best of what we have. Dream if you like but eventually you will wake up to reality. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxie Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Reefton said: Much as the industry is badly let down by the governments take take take mentality people like Ellis Tony Pike and Chittick have to realise that racing has become global and we have to accept our place in the global scheme of things. Punters can be watching Royal Ascot one minute Sha Tin and Kranji the next not to mention Randwick or Flemington, Winx, Enable, Stradivarious, Frankie Dettori Ryan Moore Zac Purton, Moriera or James Mac. Much as they might like to fantasize we are never going to be able to compete with those places because they have a punting culture and most importantly they have massive populations (the same reason the best golfers, athletes tennis players Rugby league and to an extent rugby players leave). We are never going to have a field of Winx's ridden by a range of Dettori equivalents here nor are we going to have a Galileo or Frankel shuttling here - it is just not going to happen. Sure we need to address the returns we get from wagering and sure we need to sort out tracks but none of that is going to elevate NZ racing to the International elite level and nor is it going to stop people selling horses when they get a huge offer. Its life - either accept it and get on with it or head over or up there and have a go to see how easy it is. AND the one thing we are at the truly elite level at internationally being Rugby - well how often do you see a chocka stadium except for the All Blacks????? Virtually never unless they take the teams to the provinces(which might be something worth thinking about for one WR Peters) Lets kick the TAB, NZRB and NZTR's arses and get that side sorted but otherwise guys make the best of what we have. Dream if you like but eventually you will wake up to reality. Good post Reefton. Unfortunately the racing elite are well sheltered from reality. You should ask Big Davo to bring his toothbrush down and help scrub the seats for the final race meeting at Reefton. Perhaps KFE could boil the Billy and make scones for the crew. Actually I'd be up for helping make the last day one helluva in ya face celebration of everything that is truly great about racing. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Nothing personal about David Ellis or Karyn Boxie - you have to admire the guy for his salesmanship and confidence in buying all those horses(if not for the bullshit hype they continually spew). But at some stage in most of our lives we all have to realise we are not going to be Tim Hanks or Chris Waller, James MacDonald, John Key or Hugh Fletcher and make the best of what skills and talents(and most importantly limitations)we have got. Re Reefton would you believe there is a mutiny under way in the little old town - somehow some of them think the President has come up with this idea of giving the course to NZTR and is not capable of acting to stop it - I have offered the Presidency up to anyone who wants to take it on so the AGM in a few weeks may signal the end of my battle with Winston and involvement in NZ Racing administration. Funnily enough the main ones kicking up are not even members but I struggled to explain to them that while the Club remains in the ownership of the RJC they do not have a say. I am fighting the battle from both sides! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justamugpunter Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Boxie said: Seriously this 30,000 people employed figure gets me. I think one of the previous consultants came up with it... how many of those would be minimum wage? how many would be Living wage? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Reefton said: Nothing personal about David Ellis or Karyn Boxie - you have to admire the guy for his salesmanship and confidence in buying all those horses(if not for the bullshit hype they continually spew). But at some stage in most of our lives we all have to realise we are not going to be Tim Hanks or Chris Waller, James MacDonald, John Key or Hugh Fletcher and make the best of what skills and talents(and most importantly limitations)we have got. Re Reefton would you believe there is a mutiny under way in the little old town - somehow some of them think the President has come up with this idea of giving the course to NZTR and is not capable of acting to stop it - I have offered the Presidency up to anyone who wants to take it on so the AGM in a few weeks may signal the end of my battle with Winston and involvement in NZ Racing administration. Funnily enough the main ones kicking up are not even members but I struggled to explain to them that while the Club remains in the ownership of the RJC they do not have a say. I am fighting the battle from both sides! Seriously...wtf cares about the Coast? When the major Fault snaps...you'll be crying out for help from the big Cities like Auckland... And we'll help you...just like Winnie's going to help the Racing industry... ...as every Government should..it's called 'Governing' ...wtf knew that's what's supposed to happen?? Not the Knats...laissez faire schmere Anyway..the word's out that Winn is close to making a BIG announcement Can't wait...stand by grey beard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 Ellis only wants a synthetic track so it does not detract over Winter from him trialling and selling bloodstock to Asia and getting the best syndicated horses ready to race in Aus Great for him because that is his core business but only indirectly helps NZ racing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Thomass said: Seriously...wtf cares about the Coast? When the major Fault snaps...you'll be crying out for help from the big Cities like Auckland... And we'll help you...just like Winnie's going to help the Racing industry... ...as every Government should..it's called 'Governing' ...wtf knew that's what's supposed to happen?? Not the Knats...laissez faire schmere Anyway..the word's out that Winn is close to making a BIG announcement Can't wait...stand by grey beard You're an idiot Tom arse but be aware there is as much show of a volcanic explosion dealing to your Aucklanders as an earthquake getting us(and wouldn't we hear the squealing then!) As we showed when Inangahua happened - we don't cry out for help because the public service is full of dickheads like you who are incapable of helping themselves let alone any one else Winston is a plonker who kowtows to his puppet masters and the fact that you can't see it tells us all something about you And you better make sure your mate gets his 'big announcement' out before Jacinda loses patience with his prima donna bullshit otherwise it will be back to the dole queue for Mr 3%(and it will be a disaster for NZ Racing as well - Allen and co will be laughing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, hesi said: Ellis only wants a synthetic track so it does not detract over Winter from him trialling and selling bloodstock to Asia and getting the best syndicated horses ready to race in Aus Great for him because that is his core business but only indirectly helps NZ racing Is he that successful in Aussie? Why did Brendon Lindsay shift Age of Fire(and I wonder how long it will be before Embellish is shipped off to Waller or someone)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 3 hours ago, mardigras said: The Industry gets huge government support. The government owns the TAB and nearly all the net revenue from that goes to the industry. Yet they want more ffs. You'll have to spell it out bit by bit....they still don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Reefton said: Much as the industry is badly let down by the governments take take take mentality people like Ellis Tony Pike and Chittick have to realise that racing has become global and we have to accept our place in the global scheme of things. Punters can be watching Royal Ascot one minute Sha Tin and Kranji the next not to mention Randwick or Flemington, Winx, Enable, Stradivarious, Frankie Dettori Ryan Moore Zac Purton, Moriera or James Mac. Much as they might like to fantasize we are never going to be able to compete with those places because they have a punting culture and most importantly they have massive populations (the same reason the best golfers, athletes tennis players Rugby league and to an extent rugby players leave). We are never going to have a field of Winx's ridden by a range of Dettori equivalents here nor are we going to have a Galileo or Frankel shuttling here - it is just not going to happen. Sure we need to address the returns we get from wagering and sure we need to sort out tracks but none of that is going to elevate NZ racing to the International elite level and nor is it going to stop people selling horses when they get a huge offer. Its life - either accept it and get on with it or head over or up there and have a go to see how easy it is. AND the one thing we are at the truly elite level at internationally being Rugby - well how often do you see a chocka stadium except for the All Blacks????? Virtually never unless they take the teams to the provinces(which might be something worth thinking about for one WR Peters) Lets kick the TAB, NZRB and NZTR's arses and get that side sorted but otherwise guys make the best of what we have. Dream if you like but eventually you will wake up to reality. I can't agree with the first part of your first sentence...but absolutely, to the rest of your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Freda said: You'll have to spell it out bit by bit....they still don't get it. Seems to be a bit of a recurring theme Freda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Reefton said: Nothing personal about David Ellis or Karyn Boxie - you have to admire the guy for his salesmanship and confidence in buying all those horses(if not for the bullshit hype they continually spew). But at some stage in most of our lives we all have to realise we are not going to be Tim Hanks or Chris Waller, James MacDonald, John Key or Hugh Fletcher and make the best of what skills and talents(and most importantly limitations)we have got. Re Reefton would you believe there is a mutiny under way in the little old town - somehow some of them think the President has come up with this idea of giving the course to NZTR and is not capable of acting to stop it - I have offered the Presidency up to anyone who wants to take it on so the AGM in a few weeks may signal the end of my battle with Winston and involvement in NZ Racing administration. Funnily enough the main ones kicking up are not even members but I struggled to explain to them that while the Club remains in the ownership of the RJC they do not have a say. I am fighting the battle from both sides! Good luck. There's always hope and I realise there is a time in your life when you say I've got to let go but shite I for one want to be in my last days in the rocker, broke, thinking well at least I always did the right thing and gave it a bloody good go. Sometime Reefton it takes times like this to motivate the masses. Use that energy like someone else has suggestion and make sure your great racecourse goes out with a bang! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horseboy Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 5 hours ago, mardigras said: The Industry gets huge government support. The government owns the TAB and nearly all the net revenue from that goes to the industry. Yet they want more ffs. Of course you ask for more, you never stop stop asking. Because you want the sport to be the most successful version of itself. Do you think Rugby or Yatching roll over? No. At every opportunity they push their case and they grow from it. The alternative is the kind of self deprecating, defeatist attitude that is present in this topic. Where those who have already have had the so called 'Golden Days' are happy to roll over and give up. You should be angry, because what you are handing down to your sons, daughters and grandchildren is a shadow of what you were given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 23 minutes ago, Horseboy said: Of course you ask for more, you never stop stop asking. Because you want the sport to be the most successful version of itself. Do you think Rugby or Yatching roll over? No. At every opportunity they push their case and they grow from it. The alternative is the kind of self deprecating, defeatist attitude that is present in this topic. Where those who have already have had the so called 'Golden Days' are happy to roll over and give up. You should be angry, because what you are handing down to your sons, daughters and grandchildren is a shadow of what you were given. The industry is largely in the position it is due to such heavy reliance on government funding. I'm more the kind of person that if I need money, I get off my butt and earn it for myself rather than relying on handouts. I think the racing industry should do the same. Clearly, you prefer the handout approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horseboy Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, mardigras said: The industry is largely in the position it is due to such heavy reliance on government funding. I'm more the kind of person that if I need money, I get off my butt and earn it for myself rather than relying on handouts. I think the racing industry should do the same. Clearly, you prefer the handout approach. And where would the industry be if the Govt didnt impose a monopoly? Air New Zealand seems to be doing better... If you reduce competition by controlling an industry as a govt then you either have to support it, or get out and let the market operate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 2 hours ago, mardigras said: Seems to be a bit of a recurring theme Freda. You may need to invent a two letter alphabet and 10 word vocabulary and try that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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