Tokyo Tycoon returns positive Grp 1 Sistema Stakes

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, nod said:

I doubt that this was a mistaken administration --no senior staff member could make a mistake like that with the best 2yo in the country. I  think it much more likely that the drug is in common usage after  a     young horse has a gallop or race  and the withholding days were mistaken.

So it WAS an error.  Except you are saying someone can't count to 72?  Or 3 days?

Yes Meloxicam is in common use but we don't know if Tokyo Tycoon was prescribed it at any stage.  I guess the RIB investigation will enlighten us all.

[Huey]

24 minutes ago, Jim Green said:

Stop with the conspiracy theories.The Cameras don't lie. What they said happened is exactly what happened. People get distracted and make mistakes unfortuantley

It was all there on camera. There is no conspiracy this time.

Have you seen the footage? Amazing how everyone just rolls over when its TA.

[Jim Green]

Ok Huey here's the challenge

Tell the world they are lieing

Then when they do you for slander you will see the video and exactly what happened.

Put your money where you mouth is

[Special Agent]

4 hours ago, Gammalite said:

yeah , you see all these excuses. always a 'mistake' lol. human error . yeah surely not.  but after years of working in stables it's almost impossible unless you're drunk or asleep to give the horses the wrong feed bucket, let alone >> administer a swabable medication to the wrong horse. You ususally have staff that are familiar with All the Horses surely? if you're feeding them , shoeing them, administering treatment or even brushing them lol.... you know what horse you are dealing with ......what are they putting the horse in the wrong stall/box or something ?   

So, are you saying despite the fact the senior staff member knows there are security cameras operating she thought it a good idea to drug the unbeaten two year old with a non performance enhancing substance to test if the swabbing system is working?

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Special Agent said:

So, are you saying despite the fact the senior staff member knows there are security cameras operating she thought it a good idea to drug the unbeaten two year old with a non performance enhancing substance to test if the swabbing system is working?

No mate I didn't say that. never mentioned security cameras, senior staff members, individual horses .  you did.

I just gave a general view of from what I have seen in stables over 2 decades. I say never saw errors with identity of horses for feeding or especially Treatments. and we had cheap horses lol...😄😆😉

    nor have I mentioned any 'Good Idea' about drugging anything. >>>  you did .

so Is that what YOU think happened? 

[Special Agent]

12 hours ago, Gammalite said:

No mate I didn't say that. never mentioned security cameras, senior staff members, individual horses .  you did.

I just gave a general view of from what I have seen in stables over 2 decades. I say never saw errors with identity of horses for feeding or especially Treatments. and we had cheap horses lol...😄😆😉

    nor have I mentioned any 'Good Idea' about drugging anything. >>>  you did .

so Is that what YOU think happened? 

No.  I am merely pointing out how ridiculous it would be for a Te Akau employee to knowingly administer to a horse racing a prohibited substance within the withholding period on purpose, in full view of CCTV cameras.   The stables you have been associated with must have only employed infallible people.

20 years in racing isn't a long time, unless you are 20.

[Freda]

Of course, the matter is simplified if there are no drugs used at all......

[Special Agent]

Yip.

I find it amazing talking to staff from stables around the country to hear the matter of fact conversation about what is administered on a regular basis.  As trainers we have both known would tell you, a lot of what is given to the horse is more for the confidence of the trainer.  Nothing will substitute the horse's ability.

[Chief Stipe]

51 minutes ago, Freda said:

Of course, the matter is simplified if there are no drugs used at all......

Of course.  We can than have the Parasitised Horse Maiden Stakes or the Ulcerated High Energy Diet Open Handicap or maybe the Mung Bean Paddock Trained High Weight.

[Chief Stipe]

43 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

Yip.

I find it amazing talking to staff from stables around the country to hear the matter of fact conversation about what is administered on a regular basis.  As trainers we have both known would tell you, a lot of what is given to the horse is more for the confidence of the trainer.  Nothing will substitute the horse's ability.

Nothing will substitute a horses ability and very few drugs will enhance its performance.  But a healthy horse is a happy horse and to do away completely with modern therapeutic medicine would be detrimental to a very inbred species that has been developed using every available bit of pharmaceutical science over decades.

[Chief Stipe]

On 7/04/2023 at 6:23 PM, Huey said:

Have you seen the footage? Amazing how everyone just rolls over when its TA.

Who has "rolled over"?

Interesting how "everyone" ignored the recent positives by other trainers but because it's Te Akau.....?!

[Freda]

On 8/04/2023 at 11:26 AM, Chief Stipe said:

Of course.  We can than have the Parasitised Horse Maiden Stakes or the Ulcerated High Energy Diet Open Handicap or maybe the Mung Bean Paddock Trained High Weight.

Don't talk rubbish.    There are many ways of maintaining health and happiness without resorting to pharmaceuticals that have specific withholding times.

And an unwell or injured animal requiring veterinary help is NOT about to grace the racetrack.

[Chief Stipe]

32 minutes ago, Freda said:

Don't talk rubbish.    There are many ways of maintaining health and happiness without resorting to pharmaceuticals that have specific withholding times.

You said "no drugs at all"....  Now you are saying drugs without withholding periods.

Do you remember the Bjorn Baker drug positve case in NZ where he used omeprazole on a horse to treat stomach ulcers?  That's probably in your bathroom cabinet with the name Losec on it.

[billy connolly]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

There are many ways of maintaining health and happiness without resorting to pharmaceuticals that have specific withholding times.

But without pharmac assistance you'll be distanced by the opposition, think they call it getting an edge.

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, billy connolly said:

But without pharmac assistance you'll be distanced by the opposition, think they call it getting an edge.

Does that include expert nutritional analysis and advice?

[The Centaur]

3 hours ago, billy connolly said:

But without pharmac assistance you'll be distanced by the opposition, think they call it getting an edge.

Now its standard practice for stipes to enquire into "improvement" shown by some form reversals. e.g. yesterday Pure Zambezi. 

Why don't they ask the trainer just straight up and down.

"1. Since the previous race has the horse received an injection.?  2. Has the horse had any manipulation e.g. for back. 3. Has the horse had a change of diet. 4. Was something post race rectified from its last race.

Four easy questions. Instead we have the same standard explanations e.g. needed blinkers. Needed to be ridden from behind/handy. etc etc. Best of all  however "Trainer wasn't able to offer explanation!"

[Chief Stipe]

32 minutes ago, The Centaur said:

Now its standard practice for stipes to enquire into "improvement" shown by some form reversals. e.g. yesterday Pure Zambezi. 

Why don't they ask the trainer just straight up and down.

"1. Since the previous race has the horse received an injection.?  2. Has the horse had any manipulation e.g. for back. 3. Has the horse had a change of diet. 4. Was something post race rectified from its last race.

Four easy questions. Instead we have the same standard explanations e.g. needed blinkers. Needed to be ridden from behind/handy. etc etc. Best of all  however "Trainer wasn't able to offer explanation!"

But what difference would it make to anything AFTER the horse has won?

[Freda]

14 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

You said "no drugs at all"....  Now you are saying drugs without withholding periods.

Do you remember the Bjorn Baker drug positve case in NZ where he used omeprazole on a horse to treat stomach ulcers?  That's probably in your bathroom cabinet with the name Losec on it.

Omeprazole is in almost universal use.

Bjorn had a positive to raniditine, also an ulcer treatment, not omeprazole.

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

Omeprazole is in almost universal use.

Bjorn had a positive to raniditine, also an ulcer treatment, not omeprazole.

Omeprazole has a withholding period does it not?

The point is your "no drug future" eliminates many proven therapeutics that help horses remain healthy.

Why not go the other way and allow all therapeutics to have no withholding times and only ban proven PED's.

[Freda]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Omeprazole has a withholding period does it not?

The point is your "no drug future" eliminates many proven therapeutics that help horses remain healthy.

Why not go the other way and allow all therapeutics to have no withholding times and only ban proven PED's.

You'll get no argument from me about that last sentence. 

Omeprazole does not have any withholding time, although to obey the letter of the law it shouldn't be administered on raceday.

[curious]

Withholding times are only a guideline anyway in an attempt to avoid positives from drugs being used therapeutically. I don't see why you wouldn't want them.