Freda Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 I've been reading a great deal about this concept. Any thoughts ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 13/04/2023 at 5:46 AM, Freda said: I've been reading a great deal about this concept. Any thoughts ? Sounds like communism to me Freda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted April 18, 2023 Author Share Posted April 18, 2023 Yes, of course it does. I first heard the concept aired by Chloe Swarbrick, and immediately the right-wing part of me jumped to the front, and filled my head with ' taking money off the hard-working to prop up the useless who won't work, stupid idea, silly bitch' ...etc, etc. But recently I read some interesting stuff from an economics buff and after consideration, decided that overall, there was some merit. There was a trial undertaken in Finland, which was, overall, inconclusive, but if you think of the raft of bureaucrats and bookkeepers employed to dish out benefits now- as well as the cost of those benefits which are then taxed- so MORE bureaucrats, and it does actually make some sense. Only, of course, if there is nearly full employment, so there is a taxation base to afford it, as well as ensuring that the likes of Bezos, Musk, Gates, Dimon, et al, actually pay their fair share which at present they sure as hell don't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 I believe that in life you need rich and poor, To me its a basic tenant of the world we live in. Fact is it has been the way of the world since time began. Socialism and Communism has failed where ever it rears its ugly presence. I think this Gov here in NZ is Socialist, and because of this we have inflation running out of control. This inflation problem can be directly laid at the Governments feet by their handling of the Covid hoax. Printing money and giving it away to pay people whom they locked up in their homes is the very reason why our economy is in such bad shape. The entire Covid strategy was wrong, and that fat little homo that we have as Finance Minister along with the witch Adern are entirely responsible for the mess we now find ourselves in. Thats what I think anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted April 20, 2023 Author Share Posted April 20, 2023 19 hours ago, aquaman said: I believe that in life you need rich and poor, To me its a basic tenant of the world we live in. Fact is it has been the way of the world since time began. Socialism and Communism has failed where ever it rears its ugly presence. I think this Gov here in NZ is Socialist, and because of this we have inflation running out of control. This inflation problem can be directly laid at the Governments feet by their handling of the Covid hoax. Printing money and giving it away to pay people whom they locked up in their homes is the very reason why our economy is in such bad shape. The entire Covid strategy was wrong, and that fat little homo that we have as Finance Minister along with the witch Adern are entirely responsible for the mess we now find ourselves in. Thats what I think anyway. I agree. However the material I recently read did give me food for thought. There is no doubt [ and I'm not particularly adept at figures ] that the modern economies - not just here - are not performing particularly well, and Covid is only one drama we have put up with recently. If you can be bothered, try reading Davos Man, penned by Peter Goodman, twice winner of the Gerald Loeb award for Distinguished Business and Financial Journalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honestjohn Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 Buckteeth and chippy are tarred with the same brush. Both socialists. Chloe is a smelly hairy mole. I'm being polite BTW. Hj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 On 19/04/2023 at 10:50 AM, Freda said: so there is a taxation base to afford it, as well as ensuring that the likes of Bezos, Musk, Gates, Dimon, et al, actually pay their fair share which at present they sure as hell don't. Elon Musk paid US$11 billion in tax in 2021. A decent enough share I would have thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted April 30, 2023 Author Share Posted April 30, 2023 It's a mind-boggling sum, no doubt. But as a percentage of overall income? Not so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 On 1/05/2023 at 10:47 AM, Freda said: It's a mind-boggling sum, no doubt. But as a percentage of overall income? Not so sure. Gates has paid a similar amount. Only socialist politicians are concerned about percentages of income. Elon Musk for example has constantly put billions of dollars at risk to develop new businesses. If we penalise those that create then we will not advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted May 9, 2023 Author Share Posted May 9, 2023 That was my thinking too...and I'm not saying I've had a complete mindset alteration. But my reading material does give me some food for thought that a different way of operation may be of benefit at this time. Debate is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 4 hours ago, Freda said: That was my thinking too...and I'm not saying I've had a complete mindset alteration. But my reading material does give me some food for thought that a different way of operation may be of benefit at this time. Debate is good. The tax debate this Labour Government is leading is not about equity but about creating envy. Supposedly that will aid their re-election chances. It's also about the Government collecting not less tax but more tax. To do what? Create more bureaucracy and more central control which have proven to be grossly inefficient and very poor at delivering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted May 9, 2023 Author Share Posted May 9, 2023 39 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: The tax debate this Labour Government is leading is not about equity but about creating envy. Supposedly that will aid their re-election chances. It's also about the Government collecting not less tax but more tax. To do what? Create more bureaucracy and more central control which have proven to be grossly inefficient and very poor at delivering. No argument there. But my reading material was not about the NZ experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 On 10/05/2023 at 10:28 AM, Freda said: But my reading material was not about the NZ experience. You don't need to read about it in NZ - we all experience it. Just look at the road outside for a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 I try to stay positive in everything I do which has been a hard task over the last 3-4 years. I find the idea of Socialism, Communism, a Social Credit System etc scary. I think you will find generally those who like these ideas will not include anyone who has worked hard for what they have. If I get some spare time I might give Davos Man a go with an open mind. I would take some convincing to change my mind on such matters but, on the flip side we must not be ignorant to what others think, otherwise how can we argue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 On 5/21/2023 at 7:52 AM, Special Agent said: I try to stay positive in everything I do which has been a hard task over the last 3-4 years. I find the idea of Socialism, Communism, a Social Credit System etc scary. I think you will find generally those who like these ideas will not include anyone who has worked hard for what they have. If I get some spare time I might give Davos Man a go with an open mind. I would take some convincing to change my mind on such matters but, on the flip side we must not be ignorant to what others think, otherwise how can we argue. Of course you find it 'scary' you've been brainwashed since birth...Capitalism=good-anything else =bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 3 hours ago, holy ravioli said: Of course you find it 'scary' you've been brainwashed since birth...Capitalism=good-anything else =bad. So what is your preferred flavour? If it's Communism explain why and give us and example of where it has worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 12 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: So what is your preferred flavour? If it's Communism explain why and give us and example of where it has worked. China....phenomenal economy,superb infra structure ,much less homelessness and rank poverty than in the West.Corporations rule western govts,they are bought and paid for and do not represent average people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 On 4/13/2023 at 5:46 AM, Freda said: I've been reading a great deal about this concept. Any thoughts ? Its a great concept and a vital part of transforming the present financial system . Coupled with reforming credit creation by private bankers it is the way for the future. I can recommend a book by Michael Rowbotham-'Grip of Death'.👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted September 3, 2023 Author Share Posted September 3, 2023 16 hours ago, holy ravioli said: Of course you find it 'scary' you've been brainwashed since birth...Capitalism=good-anything else =bad. I think I can guarantee that Special Agent would be impervious to ' brainwashing ' in any flavour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Indoctrination is embedded especially in people 40 or over. These are the people that didn't really have access to real,diverse,sources of geo political information. Mainstream T.V 6 O'Clock news and granny Herald and local newspapers was all they had. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted September 3, 2023 Author Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 hour ago, holy ravioli said: Its a great concept and a vital part of transforming the present financial system . Coupled with reforming credit creation by private bankers it is the way for the future. I can recommend a book by Michael Rowbotham-'Grip of Death'.👍 I'll try and get hold of it. Meanwhile, have a gander at ' Party of One ' by Chun Han Wong. Very interesting indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 56 minutes ago, Freda said: I'll try and get hold of it. Meanwhile, have a gander at ' Party of One ' by Chun Han Wong. Very interesting indeed. l'd like to read it.I see the author has an ax to grind all the same. It could be said Chinas govt is more democratic than that of America...believe it or..not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Freda said: I'll try and get hold of it. Meanwhile, have a gander at ' Party of One ' by Chun Han Wong. Very interesting indeed. Looks like you have to donate to the Communist Party to buy it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted September 4, 2023 Author Share Posted September 4, 2023 13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Looks like you have to donate to the Communist Party to buy it! Shit. At that price I'll get over any desire to read any part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Looks like you have to donate to the Communist Party to buy it! Hope thats correct!I still have a copy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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