Jason Teaz speaks his mind and cops a heavy fine!

[Chief Stipe]

Non Raceday Inquiry - Written Decision dated 24 May 2023 - Jason Teaz

racingintegrityboard.org.nz

CHARGE

 

Between 17 October 2022 and 10 February 2023, Mr Teaz, while a Licensed Public Trainer, did post a total of four (4) tweets on his public Twitter Account, deemed to be in breach of the New Zealand Harness Code of Conduct Regulations & Racing Rule 1001(A)(2) and subject to the penalties pursuant to Rule 1003(1).

 

Rule 1001A(1) & (2) states:

 

(1) The Board may make Code of Conduct Regulations, the purpose of which is to strike a balance between HRNZ needs, the need to protect its interests, manage its professional obligations to other members, stakeholders, staff and participants rights.

 

(2) A person who fails to comply with the Code of Conduct Regulations commits a breach of the Rules.

 

Penalty 1003(1) states:

 

A person who commits a breach of any Rule shall (subject to the provisions of Rule 111(1), 113(5), 451(3), 507(3), 1001 or 1004 hereof) be liable to the following penalties:

 

(a) a fine not exceeding $10,000; and/or

 

(b) suspension from holding or obtaining a Licence for a period not exceeding 12 months; and/or

 

(c) disqualification for a period not exceeding 12 months. In addition to or in substitution of any penalty imposed pursuant to sub-rule (1) hereof, any horse connected with the breach of the Rule may be scratched or disqualified from any race and/or disqualified for a period not exceeding 12 months.

 

SUMMARY OF FACTS

 

The Respondent in this matter, Jason Teaz, is the holder of a Public Trainers Licence issued by Harness Racing New Zealand (HRNZ).

 

He is 38 years of age and has held a Public Trainers Licence since 1 August 2002.

 

He has been in a training partnership with his wife Megan Teaz since 1 August 2010.

 

CIRCUMSTANCES

 

1. Mr Teaz is the creator and user of public Twitter Account – @TeazJason.

 

2. He currently has 94 Twitter followers of his public account, which means they will receive his posted tweets directly in their home Twitter Timeline. His tweets are also accessible to members of the public who log into twitter and search account – @TeazJason.

 

3. On 17th October 2022, the following tweet was posted on his Twitter Account: – “Goes 2:40 after doing work mid race this w….r who writes the tab comments feels the need to bag Brookies Jaffa. Maybe the Tab and HRNZ should get some analysts instead of A…..s.”

 

4. On 19th November 2022, the following tweet was posted on his Twitter Account: – “Listening to Trackside tonight and the exBERT reckons my horse was chucked in the deep end…well when he finds another race he was eligible for in his rating band in the North Island this week then il accept that hes not a total f…..t”.

 

5. On 30th January 2023, the following tweet was posted on his Twitter Account: – “So Hawera are being forced to run 1 trot with 18 runners. Maiden front witjr70s off 90m..TAB say club cant run 10 races..whp are these w…..s and how can we make them disappear.”

 

6. On 12th January 2023, the following tweet was posted on his Twitter Account: – “12 point difference in race 1 at Cambridge last night and same there…handicappers are corrupt.”

 

7. Mr TEAZ was interviewed at the Cambridge Raceway on 6th April 2023 post two individual complaints regarding the context of his twitter account that was directed directly to the RIB.

 

8. One of these complaints came from RaceForm NZ a printed weekly racing news & form publication. As a result of a written complaint, they had received from one of their subscribers regarding the content of Mr TEAZ’s tweets.

 

9. Mr TEAZ used to be employed by RaceForm to provide racing content & analysis over a three-year period and was reimbursed accordingly for his contribution. However, as a result of the written complaint, RaceForm made the decision to dispense with Mr TEAZ’s contribution to their publication in February 2023.

 

10. The written complaint to RaceForm stated – “I do not personally know Mr Teaz, however I do know people who know him, and I do personally know some people who have been the victim of his disgusting online trolling and abuse that he seems to throw out to people every day. One person in particular I know, was greatly affected by some of his action’s.

 

“I have taken it upon myself to do the right thing and bring it to your attention. It is simply wrong he is in a mainstream publication as yours.”

 

11. Mr TEAZ has admitted to operating the Twitter Account – @TeazJason and having written and posted the four tweets outlined in this summary.

 

12. Mr TEAZ gave the following explanation during interview as to why he had written and posted these tweets: – “I don’t know. Sometimes I’m in an angry mood or something and might read something on there that I agree with and then get a lured in. I don’t often start the read something or like it and then … it’s just stupidity, really. As I say, I’m not making any excuses for myself, I’ve had a shocking last couple of years, to be honest. That sort of stuff, it’s not really me, to be honest.”

 

13. Mr TEAZ has previously been interviewed by the RIB in August 2021, regarding a complaint received by the RIB directly from HRNZ regarding Mr Teaz’s twitter content. The content was defined as “clearly offensive”.

 

14. During that interview Mr Teaz acknowledged to RIB Investigators that he had written the tweets. He further acknowledged: – “that he had overstepped the mark” and assured “that it wouldn’t happen again.”

 

15. He was issued a formal warning letter and informed of the pending HRNZ Code of Conduct, which was due to come into force in December 2021. He acknowledged to RIB Investigators at the time, “that he thought it was already in place”.

 

16. The HRNZ Code of Conduct Regulations came into effect on 15th December 2021. It outlines under Section 8:-

 

REPUTATION

 

8.1 Persons to whom this Code applies must behave in a way that enhances and supports the good reputation of Harness Racing and does not bring Harness Racing into disrepute.

 

8.2 When making public statements or using social media related to Harness Racing, participants should provide informed and factually accurate information and ensure that any commentary or opinion does not cause damage to the reputation of Harness Racing and does not breach the Rules of Harness Racing.

 

17. Megan TEAZ, being Mr TEAZ’s wife and Licenced Training Partner, appears to be completely detached from any involvement in Mr TEAZ’s personal tweets.

 

18. Enquiries undertaken with Harness Racing New Zealand [HRNZ] regarding judicial on file for the respondent confirms one previous charge & two warning letters associated to misconduct. In February 2004 he was charged with receiving stolen property resulting in his HRNZ Licence to Train & Amateur Drivers Licence being suspended for four months. As previously outlined, he received a warning letter in August 2021 regarding social media posts. He also formally warned in February 2022 regarding breaching Covid Protocols at a trial meet.

 

19. The RIB believe that these four tweets posted by Mr Teaz on his Twitter Account fail to comply with the Code of Conduct Regulations defined under ‘social media’ & reputation and are therefore in breach of Rule 1001A (2) New Zealand Rules of Harness Racing.

 

COMMENTS

 

Mr Teaz agreed with the Summary of Facts, with the exception of item 13.

 

He said that he sent a screen shot to four friends for a bit of a laugh.

 

However, one of the friends took exception to the content and contacted Harness Racing NZ.

 

Mr Teaz did confirm that he was interviewed and warned in writing by the RIB at that time.

 

The content was defined as ‘clearly offensive’.

 

DECISION

 

Due to Mr Teaz admitting the breach, it was deemed proved by the Adjudicative Committee.

 

RIB PENALTY SUBMISSIONS

 

1. Introduction

 

1.1 The Respondent in this matter, Jason TEAZ, is the holder of a Public Trainers Licence issued by Harness Racing New Zealand [HRNZ].

 

1.2 He is 38 years of age and has held a Public Trainers Licence since 1st August 2002.

 

1.3 He has been in a training partnership with his wife – Megan Teaz since 1st August 2010.

 

1.4 We are satisfied that Megan TEAZ, appears to be completely detached from any involvement in Mr TEAZ’s personal tweets.

 

1.5 Mr TEAZ has admitted the breach to one ‘representative charge’ and faces one Information in breach of Rule 1001A(2) in relation to posting a total of four (4) ‘tweets’ on his public Twitter Account deemed to be in breach of the New Zealand Harness Code of Conduct Regulations & Racing Rule 1001A(2) and subject to the penalties pursuant to Rule 1003(1).

 

2. Offending

 

2.1 The details of Mr TEAZ’s offending are contained in the Racing Integrity Board Summary of Facts, which have been agreed. Sailent points are highlighted below.

 

2.2 Mr TEAZ is the creator and user of public Twitter Account – @TeazJason.

 

2.3 He currently has 94 Twitter followers of his public account, which means they will receive his posted tweets directly in their home Twitter Timeline. His tweets are also accessible to members of the public who log into twitter and search account – @TeazJason.

 

2.4 On 17th October 2022, the following tweet was posted on his Twitter Account: – “Goes 2:40 after doing work mid race this w….r who writes the tab comments feels the need to bag Brookies Jaffa. Maybe the Tab and HRNZ should get some analysts instead of A… ists.”

 

2.5 On 19th November 2022, the following tweet was posted on his Twitter Account: – “Listening to Trackside tonight and the exBERT reckons my horse was chucked in the deep end…well when he finds another race he was eligible for in his rating band in the North Island this week then il accept that hes not a total f…..t”.

 

2.6 On 30th January 2023, the following tweet was posted on his Twitter Account: – “So Hawera are being forced to run 1 trot with 18 runners. Maiden front witjr70s off 90m..TAB say club cant run 10 races..whp are these w…..s and how can we make them disappear.”

 

2.7 On 12th January 2023, the following tweet was posted on his Twitter Account: – “12 point difference in race 1 at Cambridge last night and same there…handicappers are corrupt.”

 

2.8 Mr TEAZ was interviewed at the Cambridge Raceway on 6th April 2023 post two individual complaints regarding the context of his twitter account that was directed directly to the RIB.

 

2.9 Mr TEAZ has admitted to operating the Twitter Account – @TeazJason and having written and posted the four tweets outlined in this summary.

 

2.10 This matter deals with one representative charge brought against the Respondent under Rule 1001A(2) in relation to posting a total of four (4) ‘tweets’ on his public Twitter Account deemed to be in breach of the New Zealand Harness Code of Conduct Regulations & Racing Rule 1001A(2).

 

2.11 The Respondent has admitted the breach of the Rule.

 

3. Penalty Provisions

 

3.1 The penalties which may be imposed are detailed in the Charge Rule and Penalty Provisions document.

 

3.2 Rule 1003(1)

 

A person who commits a breach of any Rule shall (subject to the provisions of Rule 111(1), 113(5), 451(3), 507(3), 1001 or 1004 hereof) shall be liable to the following penalties:

 

(a) fine not exceeding $10,000.00; and/or

 

(b) suspension from holding or obtaining a licence for a period not exceeding 12 months; and/or

 

(c) disqualification for a period not exceeding 12 months.

 

4. Sentencing Principles

 

4.1 The four principles of sentencing can be summarised briefly:

 

▪ Penalties are designed to punish the offender for his / her wrongdoing. They are not meant to be retributive in the sense the punishment is disproportionate to the offence, but the offender must be met with a punishment.

▪ In a racing context it is extremely important that a penalty has the effect of deterring others from committing similar offences.

▪ A penalty should also reflect the disapproval of the RIB for the type of behaviour in question.

▪ The need to rehabilitate the offender should be considered.

 

4.2 The first three principles apply in this matter.

 

5. Precedent

 

5.1 There have been no previous charges laid under the HRNZ Code of Conduct Regulation that came into effect on the 15th December 2021.

 

5.2 Nor has there been any previous RIB prosecutions directly associated to online abuse or social media. However, the following are cases & decisions involving misconduct of a verbal nature involving threatening, insulting, or offensive language: –

 

• RIB V NEAL (25.10.2022) Trainer. Misconduct, insulting, and offensive language directed towards Racing Officials. The penalty in this case was a $500 fine.

 

• RIB V PENDER (22.02.2022) Trainer. Misconduct, insulting, and offensive language directed at an employee of the Tauranga Racing Club. The penalty in this case was a $500 fine.

 

• RIU v WYNYARD (13.02.2021) Trainer. Misconduct, inappropriate and offensive language towards a Steward. The penalty in this case was a $1200 fine (2nd offence within 12 months).

 

• RIU V WILLIAMS (21.03.2020) Jockey. Misconduct, verbal abuse towards Club Officials. The penalty in this case was a $600 fine.

 

• RIU v SHARROCK (20.08.2018) Trainer. Misconduct, verbal abuse over phone to NZTR Official. The penalty in this case was a $500 fine.

 

6. Aggravating Factors –

 

6.1 Mr TEAZ has an extensive history in the Harness Industry and should therefore know the importance of conducting himself in a professional manner.

 

6.2 Mr TEAZ has previously been employed by a number of racing publications to provide them with racing content & analysis and as a result has a public following.

 

6.3 He has been the subject of an RIB investigation previously in August 2021, regarding a complaint received by the RIB directly from HRNZ regarding Mr Teaz’s twitter content. The content was defined as “clearly offensive”.

 

6.4 During that investigation Mr TEAZ acknowledged to RIB Investigators that he had written the tweets. He further acknowledged: – “that he had overstepped the mark” and assured “that it wouldn’t happen again.”

 

6.5 As a result of that investigation Mr TEAZ was issued a formal warning letter and informed of the pending HRNZ Code of Conduct, which was due to come into force in December 2021. He acknowledged to RIB Investigators at the time, “that he thought it was already in place”.

 

7. Mitigating Factors

 

7.1 Mr TEAZ has cooperated fully with Investigators and admitted the charge at the earliest opportunity.

 

7.2 Mr TEAZ appears generally remorseful for his actions and acknowledged during the interview that he had gone through a rough period in his life and that the contents of his tweets were stupid.

 

7.3 Further stating when questioned as to a motive to his tweets: – “I don’t know. Sometimes I’m in an angry mood or something and might read something on there that I agree with and then get a lured in. I don’t often start the read something or like it and then … it’s just stupidity, really. As I say, I’m not making any excuses for myself, I’ve had a shocking last couple of years, to be honest. That sort of stuff, it’s not really me, to be honest.”

 

8. Conclusion

 

8.1 When determining penalty, the RIB submit that the Adjudicative Committee have regard to the purpose of the proceedings, which include: to ensure the Rules are complied with; to uphold and maintain the high standards expected of Trainers; and to protect the integrity of Harness Racing.

 

8.2 The HRNZ Code of Conduct Regulations clearly defined under Section 8 Reputation what the standard of conduct is required by all Licenced participants in Harness Racing around public statements & social media.

 

▪ 8.1 Persons to whom this Code applies must behave in a way that enhances and supports the good reputation of Harness Racing and does not bring Harness Racing into disrepute.

 

▪ 8.2 When making public statements or using social media related to Harness Racing, participants should provide informed and factually accurate information and ensure that any commentary or opinion does not cause damage to the reputation of Harness Racing and does not breach the Rules of Harness Racing.

 

8.3 In establishing an appropriate penalty, we acknowledge RIB Harness Racing Penalty Guide that was updated on 1st February 2023, which identifies a starting point penalty for a 1st breach of Rule 1001(1) & 1001(2) of $1500 fine & a subsequent 2nd breach of $2500. Fact dependent. Period of suspension or disqualification may be considered.

 

8.4 The RIB therefore adopts a starting penalty of $2500 for any adjustment at the Adjudicative Committee discretion, regarding mitigating factors & aggravating circumstances.

 

8.5 The RIB is not seeking costs.

 

MR TEAZ PENALTY SUBMISSIONS

 

Mr Teaz explained that he had had a rough two years, having a marriage breakdown, lost his career with one employer and struggled last year with stable staff.

 

Mr Teaz said that he is now in contact with a Racing Chaplain once a week and trying very hard to become a better person and not get so angry.

 

He said that the case had been well handled by the RIB and he thanked them for that.

 

Mr Teaz said that he apologized and said that he was deeply embarrassed and added that there will be no more breaches from him as he has learnt his lesson.

 

He said that a fine would be welcomed, as a suspension would ruin his training career.

 

Mr Teaz presented two character references, one from Jamie MacKinnon, President of the Auckland Trotting Club and the other from Ann Mee. Both spoke highly of Mr Teaz.

 

REASONS FOR PENALTY

 

The Adjudicative Committee took into account all submissions with respect to Information No. A17971. This included the sentencing principles alluded to in the Summary of Facts.

 

The aggravating features included a written warning issued to Mr Teaz in August 2021. On that occasion, Mr Teaz sent a screen shot to four friends, with one of them taking offence with the content and contacted Harness Racing NZ.

 

Also, the fact that whilst Mr Teaz was charged once only, he actually posted four separate tweets that were in breach of HRNZ Code of Conduct Regulations, which came into effect on 15 December 2021. Whilst this charge was the first of its kind since the introduction of the Code of Conduct Regulations, a number of breaches for misconduct were referred to by the RIB.

 

Due to the seriousness of the content in the posted tweets and that Mr Teaz has failed to uphold the high standard expected of Licence Holders by HRNZ, the Adjudicative Committee set the penalty starting point at $2,500. On account of the aggravating features, an uplift of $500 was considered appropriate. A minor discount of $250 was afforded for Mr Teaz’s cooperation, remorse and admission of the breach. Any attempt to defend the charge would have been a futile exercise.

 

CONCLUSION

 

Mr Jason Teaz was fined $2,750. There was no order for costs.

[Walt]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

 

 

Due to the seriousness of the content in the posted tweets and that Mr Teaz has failed to uphold the high standard expected of Licence Holders by HRNZ, the Adjudicative Committee set the penalty starting point at $2,500. On account of the aggravating features, an uplift of $500 was considered appropriate. A minor discount of $250 was afforded for Mr Teaz’s cooperation, remorse and admission of the breach. Any attempt to defend the charge would have been a futile exercise.

 

CONCLUSION

 

Mr Jason Teaz was fined $2,750. There was no order for costs.

 

I feel for Jason and like the guy. He's got a backbone, a long history in the game and a platform to share his perspective both good and not so good.

The context for me is the sanitized "Trackside' where only people prepared to paint a very rosy picture of the game are wanted. A presenter could view a situation that is bad for punters and industry participants but they must not comment on it. I think after years of that BS he's grown tired of it especially when it impacts on him, on Megan and on an industry he's obviously passionate about. Frustration got the better of him. He's human. Somebody pulling him to one side and having a respectful chat would have achieved the same result here me thinks.

I don't know about others but I enjoy a bit of colour especially when it's coming from people that understand which end of the horse it's tail is at. I will take that over the cue card reading vanilla robots any day of the week. 

[the galah]

4 hours ago, Walt said:

 

I feel for Jason and like the guy. He's got a backbone, a long history in the game and a platform to share his perspective both good and not so good.

The context for me is the sanitized "Trackside' where only people prepared to paint a very rosy picture of the game are wanted. A presenter could view a situation that is bad for punters and industry participants but they must not comment on it. I think after years of that BS he's grown tired of it especially when it impacts on him, on Megan and on an industry he's obviously passionate about. Frustration got the better of him. He's human. Somebody pulling him to one side and having a respectful chat would have achieved the same result here me thinks.

I don't know about others but I enjoy a bit of colour especially when it's coming from people that understand which end of the horse it's tail is at. I will take that over the cue card reading vanilla robots any day of the week. 

Well put Walt.

A $2750 fine seems an over the top penalty.

Teaz made comments that anyone who read them,with any sense, would have seen reflected more negatively on Teaz than it did on those he was commenting about. Thats the context that his comments should be taken in. 

We live in a world where peoples emotional wellness is prioritized over speaking what you actually think. The thing about that,is that approach doesn't seem to be helping peoples mental wellbeing,The stats say more people are depressed today than ever before.

Also theres an irony here, Teaz is being punished for the perception of possibly offending people and effecting their mental wellbeing by doing so,yet it is Teaz who  admits to having that issue. 

I think he should have just been told again to "pull your head in",your not doing yourself any favours. And maybe as a penalty have him agree to no longer post on social media for say 12 months

.Hopefully he still feels comfortable with expressing his opinions in the future,because if worded right,he has a perspective that is worth hearing on many subjects involving harness racing.

Edited May 27, 2023 by the galah

[Brodie]

Do not know Jason Teaz personally, only thru Trackside commentating.

I do know he did a great job commentating at Forbury which would’ve been very difficult for him seem he lived in the North Island!

Not sure why he no longer gets to commentate but it does appear he got shafted!

He is a passionate enthusiast and I can tell he is very frustrated just like many others with many poor decisions being made to the detriment of harness racing!

As for the comments maybe they could be classed as not that professional but who on earth really gets offended by being called a wanker or something close to that?

I personally wouldnt be offended, in fact take it as a bit of a compliment.

Since the Covid BS I have realised just how easily led and accepting people are and what we actually need is more people speaking out and voicing their opinions.

Yes Jason may have broken the rules but seriously I reckon it is making a mountain out of a molehill, and we all need to harden up!

Yes I know, I am going to wear it, but then Brodie is no wimp!

Edited May 27, 2023 by Brodie

[Rangatira]

31 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Yes I know, I am going to wear it, but then Brodie is no wimp!

Wearing it so well.

[Rangatira]

7 hours ago, Walt said:

I don't know about others but I enjoy a bit of colour especially when it's coming from people that understand which end of the horse it's tail is at. I will take that over the cue card reading vanilla robots any day of the week. 

Jason and Davey Mac well worth the price of admission. And that day at Waikouaiti was pure GOLD.

The current rabble puts me to sleep on the couch.

[Nowornever]

3 hours ago, the galah said:

Teaz made comments that anyone who read them,with any sense, would have seen reflected more negatively on Teaz than it did on those he was commenting about. Thats the context that his comments should be taken in. 

Freedom of speech is on the out. You are living in start of the authoritarian era now. 

[Special Agent]

Aren't people of today very sensitive.

The reason the fine was so high when the likes of Allan Sharrock and Jim Pender were $500 a piece is because Jason was charged with four breaches of the rules.  Hollie Wynyard was fined $1,200 as it was her second offence within 12 months. So, they are all relative.

All Jason had to do was change the wording on his tweets slightly.  I'm not sure if he'd find synonyms in the thesaurus to his liking but, it would only have taken a little toning down to get the same effect, minus the fine.  I wonder if any word replacement for corrupt would have sufficed though.  I find that charge suspect.  The authorities are not only saying you are a licence holder therefore have given up your freedom of speech but, you have also relinquished your right to an opinion, certainly sharing it.

How many were offended by Jason's comments?  As there were only two complaints you would assume the outrageous Teaz comments were offensive to just two people, who were probably related.  What is the general rule with complaints in the wider world?  Would two single complaints be sufficient to open a full blown inquiry and the equivalent of a court hearing?

[Special Agent]

I would like to know if the validity of these complaints was properly investigated.  In the world of cancel culture it would be easy for someone to manipulate the system.  The Rules of Harness Racing should not only penalise licence holders; they should also protect them.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Special Agent

[Walt]

The way we have evolved in this world previously is by embracing what works and making it better and by binning things that don't work. That has worked beautifully for centuries. Without that you end up with planes having three engines on one wing and only one engine on the other wing.....or 11 wheeled motorcycles etc etc.

Now we are not allowed to talk about things even Blind Freddy can see don't work.....ie a pedo man identifying as a female getting changed in the girls changing rooms etc etc etc. If we talk about it we are described as transphobic dinosaurs and targeted for cancelation. The word "racist" has been weaponized. If you want to shut down any perspective different to your own then just call them "racist". Nobody likes being called that so the topic ends and the person just tries to defend the accusation of them being racist. Let me declare my hand that I despise genuine racists. They are little more than divisive ignoramuses but one size certainly does not fit all. Shutting down healthy robust discussion you disagree with is the opposite to evolving. Why bother having elections? Political Parties have hugely different policies. You vote for the one you agree with in broad terms. It's called democracy.

I'm convinced "hate speech" legislation is very dangerous as it cements into law the absurd dynamic we have now. What will be the outcome of that? The fact Labour has postponed this BS legislation until after the election is something all New Zealanders not suffering mental health issues should be extremely concerned about. We must be able in a democratic country speak out about things we disagree with. At present only one side of that discussion can do so.

Being hurt or offended by something absolutely does not mean the person is right. ...but it seemingly does now. Victimizing your self has become a well worn method of pushing forward your agenda.

Bud Light everyone. Watch this space. It's more important than some realize.

On a personal note. I was temporarily banned on Facebook for 28 days. There was a court case deliberating in the United States over a nut job who had gone off the deep end with an automatic rife. He killed multiple people and badly wounded many others. The question on the thread was Execution or Life Imprisonment?. My answer was "Have him put down as you would with a dog that had attacked and killed multiple innocent people". I was banned on Facebook for breaching community standards. Ok, maybe I should have just said "execution" but it's a highly emotive topic and I was justifying my answer. If people don't want an answer, then don't ask the question. 

I hope Jason is able to continue speaking his mind but without making it personal and gifting certain people the ability to say bla bla bla was hurt by his perspective. 

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Walt said:

The word "racist" has been weaponized. If you want to shut down any perspective different to your own then just call them "racist". Nobody likes being called that so the topic ends and the person just tries to defend the accusation of them being racist. Let me declare my hand that I despise genuine racists. They are little more than divisive ignoramuses but one size certainly does not fit all. Shutting down healthy robust discussion you disagree with is the opposite to evolving. Why bother having elections? Political Parties have hugely different policies. You vote for the one you agree with in broad terms. It's called democracy.

I agree.  I happened to attend a Body Corp meeting helping a friend out.  A very small Body Corp.

A mixed group of ethnicities but all members are relatively well off.

One individual is a well respected elder in the local Maori Community.  So as we have all come to expect their long introduction was in Te Reo which we all respected.  I imagine most didn't have a clue what was being said.

Anyway to cut a long meeting short.  A number of motions were discussed and voted on at the meeting which didn't go the way of the elder.  

Next minute we are all being accused of being racist.   It was pointed out that it was a democracy and we all had a chance to speak and vote one vote per unit.  Apparently that was a racist approach as well.

Sadly this example is just reflective of a wider problem.  A sense of entitlement has been allowed to be created amongst many groups without any principled foundations.  

[Walt]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

I agree.  I happened to attend a Body Corp meeting helping a friend out.  A very small Body Corp.

A mixed group of ethnicities but all members are relatively well off.

One individual is a well respected elder in the local Maori Community.  So as we have all come to expect their long introduction was in Te Reo which we all respected.  I imagine most didn't have a clue what was being said.

Anyway to cut a long meeting short.  A number of motions were discussed and voted on at the meeting which didn't go the way of the elder.  

Next minute we are all being accused of being racist.   It was pointed out that it was a democracy and we all had a chance to speak and vote one vote per unit.  Apparently that was a racist approach as well.

Sadly this example is just reflective of a wider problem.  A sense of entitlement has been allowed to be created amongst many groups without any principled foundations.  

A very good example Chief. It's one many of us have witnessed one way or another. It seems to be a tool some carry in their back pocket ready to use when a discussion is not going their way. Those using that tool are not stupid. It's most unlikely they would resort to it if they hadn't had success with it previously. Attempting to better one's position via the forced defensiveness / guilt of others who have done nothing wrong should never be the way forward yet it's become common practice.
 

[Brodie]

There is reverse racism in NEW ZEALAND, it is not the Maori word that starts and finishes with A!

Everyone needs to send a message to government this year by voting the current bunch of racists out big time in October!!

FFS they are renaming everything and wasting billions of taxpayers $ with Maori BS that Labour commies have adopted for absolutely no benefit!!!!

Seriously deluded if you are going to vote this lot back in as a vote for them is a vote for a Communist Party, Envious loser Green Party and a Racist Maori Party and it is just going to be so bad for everyone!!!
The ones who voted for Labour at the last election should hang their head in shame for not thinking what they were actually doing!!   

 

 

[Walt]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

There is reverse racism in NEW ZEALAND, it is not the Maori word that starts and finishes with A!

Everyone needs to send a message to government this year by voting the current bunch of racists out big time in October!!

FFS they are renaming everything and wasting billions of taxpayers $ with Maori BS that Labour commies have adopted for absolutely no benefit!!!!

Seriously deluded if you are going to vote this lot back in as a vote for them is a vote for a Communist Party, Envious loser Green Party and a Racist Maori Party and it is just going to be so bad for everyone!!!
The ones who voted for Labour at the last election should hang their head in shame for not thinking what they were actually doing!!   

 

 

I talk to a lot of people from one month to the next Brodie and I can say the points you raise are ones I hear repeated often by fairly typical kiwi folk across the board. None of them could be deemed racist, just New Zealanders expressing their concerns. The resentment is growing. 

If hugely significant words are going to change then do it respectfully. Have a referendum at the next election.  Don't force feed people something they have never agreed to. It's becoming a divisive issue and it didn't need to be.

The word starting with "A" being used more and more to describe our country is seen as an insult to a percentage of kiwis. It's not the word they have ever used to describe the country they love or their fathers / Uncles /  Grandfathers / Great Grandfathers etc fought and died for. 

There are lots of reasons Labour will likely lose the October election. This is definitely one of them. 

 

 

 

[the galah]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

There is reverse racism in NEW ZEALAND, it is not the Maori word that starts and finishes with A!

Everyone needs to send a message to government this year by voting the current bunch of racists out big time in October!!

FFS they are renaming everything and wasting billions of taxpayers $ with Maori BS that Labour commies have adopted for absolutely no benefit!!!!

Seriously deluded if you are going to vote this lot back in as a vote for them is a vote for a Communist Party, Envious loser Green Party and a Racist Maori Party and it is just going to be so bad for everyone!!!
The ones who voted for Labour at the last election should hang their head in shame for not thinking what they were actually doing!!   

 

 

National still a party who's policies push the wealth gap between those that have and those that haven't further.

Just read a story on stuff about some woman saying if labour win the election she will sell one of her 4 investment properties and if national win she will buy a 5th. National promising a tax change to benefit people who invest in multiple properties.Last year nz was named the 6th least affordable country in the world to buy a property. National obviously don't care given some of their policies. That just an example of why the labour party still a chance despite what they are doing. So many are effected by the cost of housing,whether it be owning or renting and they see labour as the best at helping them survive in that regard..

Edited May 28, 2023 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

38 minutes ago, the galah said:

National still a party who's policies push the wealth gap between those that have and those that haven't further.

Just read a story on stuff about some woman saying if labour win the election she will sell one of her 4 investment properties and if national win she will buy a 5th. National promising a tax change to benefit people who invest in multiple properties.Last year nz was named the 6th least affordable country in the world to buy a property. National obviously don't care given some of their policies. That just an example of why the labour party still a chance despite what they are doing. So many are effected by the cost of housing,whether it be owning or renting and they see labour as the best at helping them survive in that regard..

So you propose some form of market regulation to make houses more "affordable"? 

[the galah]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

So you propose some form of market regulation to make houses more "affordable"? 

Jacinda ardern ruled out the capitol gains tax on property other than the family home,yet last year a poll said 54% supported one and 32% didn't ,the rest undecided.Just makes sense to me to have one given the cost of housing. Also national like immigration to stimulate the economy don't they . How does that help housing costs.. Housing is an issue that effects everyone one way or another.I'm just happy that Ardern is no longer the prime minister.Each to their own opinions.

Edited May 28, 2023 by the galah

[Brodie]

3 hours ago, the galah said:

National still a party who's policies push the wealth gap between those that have and those that haven't further.

Just read a story on stuff about some woman saying if labour win the election she will sell one of her 4 investment properties and if national win she will buy a 5th. National promising a tax change to benefit people who invest in multiple properties.Last year nz was named the 6th least affordable country in the world to buy a property. National obviously don't care given some of their policies. That just an example of why the labour party still a chance despite what they are doing. So many are effected by the cost of housing,whether it be owning or renting and they see labour as the best at helping them survive in that regard..

What the blatantly stupid unfair policies that Labour have bought into to disadvantage landlords is backfiring on them big time!!!
The tenants are going to find that their rents are going to be increased significantly to a point where they are going to struggle to pay it!

Landlords that have been under renting their properties are going to have to put the rents up massively to try and recover part of the increased costs they are having to meet.

Tubby Robertson just has no idea of financial matters whatsoever and is a PLONKER, stating that interest paid on a rental shouldnt be tax deductible as it is a tax loophole!!

So if the interest shouldnt be claimed as a taxable deduction how come all other expenses like rates etc. can be claimed?
There wouldnt be one accountant in Australasia that thinks that interest paid on a rental property shouldnt be claimed as a legitimate business expense!!!

National/Act will overturn that and the Brightline 10 year capital Gain BS as well as so many other ill thought out policies!

This bunch of totally unqualified bunch of losers should never ever have control of NEW ZEALAND ever again!

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Brodie

[the galah]

32 minutes ago, Brodie said:

What the blatantly stupid unfair policies that Labour have bought into to disadvantage landlords is backfiring on them big time!!!
The tenants are going to find that their rents are going to be increased significantly to a point where they are going to struggle to pay it!

Landlords that have been under renting their properties are going to have to put the rents up massively to try and recover part of the increased costs they are having to meet.

Tubby Robertson just has no idea of financial matters whatsoever and is a PLONKER, stating that interest paid on a rental shouldnt be tax deductible as it is a tax loophole!!

So if the interest shouldnt be claimed as a taxable deduction how come all other expenses like rates etc. can be claimed?
There wouldnt be one accountant in Australasia that thinks that interest paid on a rental property shouldnt be claimed as a legitimate business expense!!!

National/Act will overturn that and the Brightline 10 year capital Gain BS as well as so many other ill thought out policies!

This bunch of totally unqualified bunch of losers should never ever have control of NEW ZEALAND ever again!

 

Well,if the reaction of the lady in the article is anything to go by,then the tax has achieved in some ways what it set out to do. i.e. make having multiple rental properties less attractive as  an investment. And the lady in the article says thats what other investors in housing are saying as well. So not such a silly tax given that would have been one of labours goals.

As to rents going up. Well people just get more of an accommodation allowance. More reason to vote labour.

We seem to somehow have wandered off the topic, as we do sometimes. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by the galah

[Special Agent]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

So you propose some form of market regulation to make houses more "affordable"? 

For goodness sake how affordable are houses supposed to be?  If you commit to a mortgage it means going without quite a bit.  It may not work out to be the duration, but definitely the first few years.  Listening to radio reports this afternoon many are looking for creative ways to overcome a mortgage rate hike from 2% to 7.7%, and climbing.

Going by political spin the answer to that problem is simple.  Shortly we are going to be able to cram as many people into the cities as possible so convert your garage or add two more stories and sell part of your dwelling to someone who has visions of stepping onto the property ladder or, better still, rent out your conversion, attic or garden shed to someone who currently resides in a vehicle.

[Special Agent]

45 minutes ago, Brodie said:

This bunch of totally unqualified bunch of losers should never ever have control of NEW ZEALAND ever again!

They penalise anyone who works hard and tries to get ahead, and they HATE racing and anyone who questions their scientific claptrap.  I don't want them back either.

The country is so far down the gurgler I'm not sure what innovative initiative any other Party can come up with to make racing flourish.

Maybe Jason can practice some sweet tweets on political policy ideas using some new adjectives of which the RIB approves.

[Brodie]

8 hours ago, the galah said:

Well,if the reaction of the lady in the article is anything to go by,then the tax has achieved in some ways what it set out to do. i.e. make having multiple rental properties less attractive as  an investment. And the lady in the article says thats what other investors in housing are saying as well. So not such a silly tax given that would have been one of labours goals.

As to rents going up. Well people just get more of an accommodation allowance. More reason to vote labour.

We seem to somehow have wandered off the topic, as we do sometimes. 

Galah, we need private landlords now more than ever, as the governments should not be involved in housing!

They have always been the worst landlords due to many factors!

Tenants that have issues are nit going to be taken  on by landlord’s as it is impossible to get rid of them!

The Labour policies are just another way of trying to bring the more successful people down which is a commie plan, we just csn not have successful people going out and becoming wealthier.

 

 

 

 

[Walt]

[Chief Stipe]

8 hours ago, the galah said:

i.e. make having multiple rental properties less attractive as  an investment. And the lady in the article says thats what other investors in housing are saying as well. So not such a silly tax given that would have been one of labours goals.

So just because someone doesn't have as many investment rentals does that make homes more affordable?  Nope.  

Does it reduce the supply?  Yes it does so the tax changes have failed.  

The reason why there is a shortage of housing and what there is rises in cost is due to the interventions of this Government in the market.

The alternative is that we rely on Government to build more affordable homes but they've proven that they are hopeless at it.  What's more they are hopeless bad landlords.

 

[Chief Stipe]

8 hours ago, the galah said:

As to rents going up. Well people just get more of an accommodation allowance. More reason to vote labour.

You think that is a good thing?  Labour has borrowed an incredible amount of money and shovelled it out to pay for things that don't produce anything.  Your solution is to borrow more (or tax more) to top up those who can't afford to pay rent.  That's just makes the problem worse.

Meanwhile where are the 100,000 new houses in 10 years?  We should have 60,000 of them by now.  Why don't we?  Simply because the Governments own rules,  politics and bureaucrats make it too down hard.

Meanwhile let's effectively nationalise every motel block in Rotorua.  Pay exorbitant rents for them and at the same time stuff up the tourist industry in the town.

The only solution is for Government to get out of the housing industry and remove the impediments to more private investors supplying rentals.