The Optimist's explosive new piece !!!

[Delta Bro]

2 hours ago, Special Agent said:

I have to wonder where it is that everyone thinks we are going to be as an industry in five years?  

It will be a boutique industry. It will be the preserve of the wealthy. The TAB customer base will become immaterial. Funding will come from investment returns. The investment money will come from asset sales such as the Ellerslie Hill. 

In the distant future, there will no longer be any city racecourses. Those who sell them up will say the land is now so valuable, you can't justify retaining it for a few days of racing during the year. That's not my idea. It was something told to me by a former Auckland Trotting Club President. I didn't believe him at the time. What's happening now points to him being correct.

[Chief Stipe]

5 hours ago, Special Agent said:

Back to these pokies.  Is 500 pokies across New Zealand a big percentage?  If you look around your area think about how many machines there are in each venue does 500 pokies still seem significant?  Is this a smoke screen?

A $14 million dollar plus smokescreen.  

[curious]

On 2/06/2023 at 6:12 PM, curious said:

True in recent years. Integrity used to be funded by the codes prior to the pokies. Don't know how that will be funded as the pokies are phased out. It's really the codes responsibility so they may have to pick that cost back up.

Got that wrong sorry. The Racing Industry Act 2020 makes funding the RIB the responsibility of TABNZ.

[The Centaur]

22 hours ago, Special Agent said:

The only presentations I know of are the announcement by the Racing Minister and the three Entain Road Shows at Hamilton, Awapuni and Addington.

I'm finding the differing interpretations from these announcements interesting.

I heard most of the Jason Pine interview with Dean Shannon of Entain today.  Dean said this is the first time he has had an agreement with a government, having already gone into 32 other countries.  That comment suggests the TAB have been shoved aside and Entain are dealing directly with those at the Beehive.  Dean said Entain are concerned that greyhounds and horses are looked after both whilst in work and retired so, that should appease the animal welfare people.  Dean met with problem gambling groups on Monday before his presentations to stakeholders which is more than McAnulty did.  Before his announcement, despite his report being full of harm minimisation statements, Kieran had only spoken with SAFE and SPCA.

Back to these pokies.  Is 500 pokies across New Zealand a big percentage?  If you look around your area think about how many machines there are in each venue does 500 pokies still seem significant?  Is this a smoke screen?

Mikeynz asks if the concern could only be to stop a pokie user harming themself.  All this talk of harm minimisation is ridiculous.  If the harm caused by punting on whichever chosen method is the concern, why does Entain express their objective is to "grow the pie", "increase market share" and however else they describe the method of making people bet and lose more?

I have to wonder where it is that everyone thinks we are going to be as an industry in five years?  I bet wherever that is Cameron George will be hanging on to a title somehow by his fingernails.

Thanks for that. Found the Dean Shannon SENZ interview with Lois Herman. Can't say there was anything of interest in it. Perhaps the right questions were not asked. Its all very well mentioning the words fresh thinking, new products, innovation but really at this stage we need more insight into the actual deal. No mention of sports betting as opposed to racing betting. Still no wiser.

[curious]

15 minutes ago, The Centaur said:

Thanks for that. Found the Dean Shannon SENZ interview with Lois Herman. Can't say there was anything of interest in it. Perhaps the right questions were not asked. Its all very well mentioning the words fresh thinking, new products, innovation but really at this stage we need more insight into the actual deal. No mention of sports betting as opposed to racing betting. Still no wiser.

Entain will be operating all betting, both sports and racing.

[The Centaur]

21 minutes ago, curious said:

Entain will be operating all betting, both sports and racing.

Thats obvious. What we want to know is where the emphasis will be. The Entain investment into new products seems all to do with sports.

[Reefton]

On 2/06/2023 at 12:57 PM, The Centaur said:

Reefton, Being a club person how do you think sponsors will react when they rightly or wrongly assume they are supporting an outfit like Ladbrokes?  I'm betting quite a few won't want anything to do with racing.

Our sponsors won't really care TC.  It really is just a donation to keep the club going(as I do myself).  Our are more likely to chuck it in after the manner in which the RIB officials behaved last January

I think the vast majority of sponsorship in this country is really a donation now isn't it?  Pretty limited benefit.  I've sponsored the Club for a hundred years but I have never had a new client walk in and say 'I see you sponsor the Reefton Races'  Though to be fair the race I sponsor usually carries someone else's name(often a Memorial like it was supposed to be this year)

[Freda]

You got a prize ( or portion thereof )  today, Reefton,  your perseverance does you credit in more ways than one !

Hope you had a celebratory drink!

[Special Agent]

4 hours ago, The Centaur said:

Thats obvious. What we want to know is where the emphasis will be. The Entain investment into new products seems all to do with sports.

I can only reiterate I fail to see how the monetary support from Entain can be sustained once the short term guarantee expires.  The turnover must double or treble.  Good luck on that.  Any amount of new betting product is not going to do that.

Some points given at the Road Show include $100,000 put into rewarding stablehands/trackwork riders like the Godolphin Flying Start programme in Australia, increasing stake money at the lower end i.e.  $2K into each maiden race similar to what they have done in Tasmania, an emphasis on enticing young patronage on track, encouraging a spread of investment i.e. 10 x $10 bets vs 1 x $100 as a better outcome for Entain retaining the customer as a regular, exciting the betting customer with ownership opportunities through the Entain syndication club, bringing in more betting options but not sure what they will be, a new brand to run alongside current wagering brand, produce a better quality racing product with more races and more starters per race (the Entain input into programming may be significant).  There were people taking notes.  I wish I had been one of them.

So in answer to your question where will the emphasis be, it seems it will be in every area.  If what Entain does turns out to be successful the question would have to be asked what use were the Board?

[curious]

Thank you Special Agent. I may have misunderstood The Centaur's question but agree with everything you say.

I also think that the answer is probably both though you might expect that Entain will focus on the areas where they think they can achieve the greatest revenue gains the soonest.

With respect to the roadshow presentation, you have to remember that these were for racing audiences, so the racing related ideas and plans were probably at the forefront in those presentations. Different things may also have emerged at the different centres especially in the discussion and question time. I would add to Special Agent's list that there are clearly plans to work with individual clubs to help them enhance the oncourse experience for punters; with hotels, to enhance the TABs making them more pleasant and user friendly especially for new customers - they recently have reached agreement on this with the Australian Hotel Association which involves 1500 hotels; and improvements to Trackside -a third channel was mentioned.

It doesn't really seem to me to matter much for NZ racing whether any increased wagering revenue comes from sports or racing as any revenue increases from either will still increase distributions to codes.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, curious said:

It doesn't really seem to me to matter much for NZ racing whether any increased wagering revenue comes from sports or racing as any revenue increases from either will still increase distributions to codes.

Isn't wagering revenue from sports legislated to go to sports?  How do the racing codes benefit?

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Isn't wagering revenue from sports legislated to go to sports?  How do the racing codes benefit?

Yes. I probably didn't say that very well. But I don't think that growing sports betting will take away from growing race betting. Probably to the contrary if it's attracting new wagering customers to bet on something they are familiar with, i.e. sports, they may then be tempted to also try race betting with some good promotion and education, especially if retail venues become nicer and more user friendly and they are mingling there with racing focused folk.

Edited June 4, 2023 by curious

[Chief Stipe]

15 minutes ago, curious said:

if retail venues become nicer and more user friendly and they are mingling there with racing focused folk.

There's hardly any of then left.  Are you talking about pub outlets as well?

[Reefton]

12 hours ago, Freda said:

You got a prize ( or portion thereof )  today, Reefton,  your perseverance does you credit in more ways than one !

Hope you had a celebratory drink!

Thanks Pam

No drinks no celebrations of any sort just a phone that rang hot for five minutes.  Didn't even back him.

I guess I should be thrilled but really in this game the disappointments outnumber the thrills so to avoid huge disappointment I do not have high expectations with any nag.  By reverse I do not get too excited when one manages to salute.

He was/is a trotting man but I remember Trevor Craddock saying 'My old man used to reckon you should celebrate your losses not your wins in the racing game.  You get more piss ups that way'

 

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, curious said:

Yes. I probably didn't say that very well. But I don't think that growing sports betting will take away from growing race betting. Probably to the contrary if it's attracting new wagering customers to bet on something they are familiar with, i.e. sports, they may then be tempted to also try race betting with some good promotion and education, especially if retail venues become nicer and more user friendly and they are mingling there with racing focused folk.

Not many 'racing focused folk' about these days from where I am sitting.

Problem is they are an elderly and dying breed.

But I know what you mean

[Reefton]

If Entain is as progressive as people seem to think then why does it need a  monopoly on NZ punting?

Surely they will assert their superior product and service and the(serious) NZ punters will come flooding back?

Giving them carte blanche strikes me as a way to ensure that their customers will, in the absence of alternatives, be given second class treatment.

[The Centaur]

3 hours ago, Reefton said:

If Entain is as progressive as people seem to think then why does it need a  monopoly on NZ punting?

Surely they will assert their superior product and service and the(serious) NZ punters will come flooding back?

Giving them carte blanche strikes me as a way to ensure that their customers will, in the absence of alternatives, be given second class treatment.

I would say surely if they are so progressive then why are stakes in the UK so pathetic. After all they go on how long Ladbrokes has been there. Not only have they been given a monopoly in NZ but the door has been closed on  anyone with a good idea. The attitude of those running racing is sickening. 

[curious]

3 hours ago, Reefton said:

If Entain is as progressive as people seem to think then why does it need a  monopoly on NZ punting?

Surely they will assert their superior product and service and the(serious) NZ punters will come flooding back?

Giving them carte blanche strikes me as a way to ensure that their customers will, in the absence of alternatives, be given second class treatment.

I don't think they ever said that they NEED a monopoly nor Centaur have they been GIVEN one, though obviously see it as an advantage. That is far from a done deal anyway and might be a distance away at best.

Starting a second brand here to directly compete with Aussie competition sounds like a priority and to me that does seem both progressive and proactive to me. I don't think they'll be sitting on their hands waiting on a government decision that may or may not come and if so, who knows when.

Edited June 5, 2023 by curious

[Chief Stipe]

5 minutes ago, curious said:

Starting a second brand here to directly compete with Aussie competition sounds like a priority and to me that does seem both progressive and proactive to me.

What's the first brand?

[Special Agent]

Currently TAB

[Special Agent]

As Aussie has neds maybe will will have zeds.

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

Currently TAB

But EntainNZ is just a rebranded TABNZ.   

[The Centaur]

8 minutes ago, curious said:

I don't think they ever said that they NEED a monopoly nor Centaur have they been GIVEN one, though obviously see it as an advantage. That is far from a done deal anyway and might be a distance away at best.

Starting a second brand here to directly compete with Aussie competition sounds like a priority and to me that does seem both progressive and proactive to me. I don't think they'll be sitting on their hands waiting on a government decision that may or may not come and if so, who knows when.

You seem to be on a different page. The minister has made it plain there is no other betting brand or competition. Sleeping seems more appropriate  description of Entain. Turned on TV to watch English Oaks and instead saw the maiden steeple from Toulouse before TV finished. No Oaks although TAB had streaming.

[Special Agent]

10 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

But EntainNZ is just a rebranded TABNZ.   

Yes, but they plan to introduce another brand in conjunction with the current.  Now my memory might be a little hazy but I think Dean said something along the lines that the new brand would be because some would have an aversion to using TAB.

[Special Agent]

13 minutes ago, The Centaur said:

You seem to be on a different page. The minister has made it plain there is no other betting brand or competition. Sleeping seems more appropriate  description of Entain. Turned on TV to watch English Oaks and instead saw the maiden steeple from Toulouse before TV finished. No Oaks although TAB had streaming.

I agree with you Centaur.  That is how I heard it and I thought that the monopoly was most of the attraction.