Chief Stipe

What is missing from both extracts is the definition of "older".

Which is where the rules are an ass. "Fit and Proper" is subjective at best. Weir pleased guilty on the same charges in the criminal court and given a fine but did not get a criminal conviction. Racing Victoria will find it hard to justify what is essentially a much harsher penalty albeit by default.

DARREN WEIR - still in limbo! https://www.clarkofthecourse.com/post/darren-weir-still-in-limbo A Victorian Racing Tribunal supposed penalty hearing descended into some farce as another disqualification period was delivered but no absolute decision reached. Darren Weir will either end up serving a seven-and-a-half-year penalty for jigger and animal cruelty offences or be able to consider applying to rejoin the training ranks from next February. Not that opening comments by new Racing Victoria chair Tim Eddy post Friday’s messy Victorian Racing Tribunal hearing would give him any comfort of a smooth approval. But “when” Weir will serve - or start serving - those extra two years for use of the jiggers and committing animal cruelty on three horses Tosen Basil, Red Cardinal and Yogi at his Warrnambool stables on October 30, 2018, is the latest question still unanswered and still to be determined after a morning of legal wrangling and more scheduled to come now. No-one needs reminding Weir had served four years for possession, those charges brought, the case heard and determined within a week back in early 2019, something clearly raised by Bowman today. That associated penalty expired in February last year, now 17 months ago. But here we are five and a half years later, and I will get to Judge Bowman’s comments on such, with still matters to be determined. In announcing the mandatory two-year ban for use, let’s simply go to Bowman who noted: “Mr Weir was not only person in charge of the situation, but he was also the person who actually committed the acts of cruelty to Tosen Basil (and the other two),” he said “While there are a number of very substantial matters in Mr Weir’s favour (which have been set out earlier”, the bottom line is he was the person in charge of the horses, the stables, the situation, he was the boss. “Accordingly, the penalties are the minimum of two years, over and above four years, which he has already served,” Bowman said. But of course, Weir pleaded guilty to these charges as he had to all those before. But legal argument ensued (after an 18-month disqualification to co-defendant Jarrod Mclean and six months to Tyson Kermond were also announced) with clarification sought by Counsel, Ian Smith for Weir and Damian Sheales for the others. This comes to the matter of time served, in Weir’s case the 17 months since his original disqualification ended. Bowman’s initial ruling was that the penalty started from today, not including that time. The conversations went like this: HILL – “could we raise that question in respect to Mr Weir, bearing in mind from February 23, he has not been licensed to train, not sort to train, has remained clear of training and racing other than pre-training. BOWMAN – “we were well and truly aware of it. It was something that was taken into account, no actual calendar calculation was made in relation to it. We were aware he was performing (Trevenson); we don’t know for how long during that 12-month period, how long he was performing or what was involved. We took into account and made no specific allowance for it.” HILL – “So the intention of decision is that the two years commences today?” BOWMAN: Yes.” But pressed further by Sheales for his clients, Bowman conceded there was an argument to be had that “part of the penalty has already been served.” Sheales was stinging in his criticism of Angus Willoughby for the RV stewards saying, “it was the silliest thing I have ever heard” (that time served was not a consideration let alone a given precedent.) Bowman then declared that there then would be no final order today, and argument on when penalties would start were set to a timetable, RV Stewards to submit first by July 19, Weir, McLean and Kermond to respond by August 2, RV Stewards right of reply to a week later with August 19 given as the final date for a directions hearing as some “definite finality.” Which will lead to most importantly the time to be served by Weir and any chance he has of thinking of returning to racing as a trainer. A disqualification will allow him to live at Trevenson Park, his pre-training property at Baringhup, but not be involved in the horses. Trevenson Park Currently 35 staff are employed with over 100 horses in work and others agisting. With the case still requiring a final deliberation, it was interesting that Racing Victoria, whose normal mantra is “we will not comment on an ongoing case” issued a statement from Eddy. “Darren Weir, Jarrod McLean and Tyson Kermond’s conduct struck at the heart of the two pillars upon which the horse racing industry stands – animal welfare and integrity. It elaborated: “The actions of the individuals in this case not only severely damaged racing’s reputation, but also tarnished the image of hard-working, rule-abiding individuals in our industry who devote their lives to the horses and act for the betterment of the sport,” he said. Perhaps not all of Judge Bowmans notes were read before that statement was issued. So, I note them here. Bowman asked, almost rhetorically, (in trying to determine sentence), “what then are the totality factors in the case?” And answered: “Firstly, a disqualification of four years-imposed 6 February 2019 should be taken into account “Secondly, he (Weir) limited himself greatly to any participation in racing since the expiry of the four-year penalty in February pending the present charges. “Thirdly, Mr Weir faced a considerable number of police charges concerned with jiggers and animal welfare in the Magistrates Court. Most were not pursued but ultimately, he plead guilty to cruelty and was fined $36,000 without a recorded conviction. (14 December 22), that should be taken into account. “And next, he had these charges and their predecessor of possession hanging over him five-and-a-half years.” “There is no suggestion that any part of that delay is anyway attributable to him. Bowman then spoke direct to the matter of cruelty. “In each instance (the three horses), there was no indication of any reaction or injury to horses to which the jigger was applied. “Dr (Andrew ) McLean, in expert evidence, could not say the application any effect on horses at all. “It is behaviour which the industry will not tolerate. The use of jigger is major offence which should attract a significant penalty,” he said. Bowman also addressed Weir’s character and evidence in his favour as such. “A large number of most impressive character witnesses were placed before us,” he said. “We also note that in the interval between the expiry of the four years disqualification and the present, Weir has pre-trained a considerable number of horses at his farm, this work is for others in the industry. “The stewards have at all relevant times known of this having been notified of it by Mr Weir. “There was no suggestion this was anyway improper or in breach of the rules, indeed stewards visited property seen what occurring,” Bowman said. He continued: “Mr Weir is a self-made trainer; he has been an outstanding success. And bearing in mind the size of operation, his disciplinary record is very good. “However, we are of the opinion there should be a disqualification – and that should be for minimum period prescribed for two years." So that is where it lies, awaiting submissions as to when the latest penalty should start. Weir has not trained a runner since Torreggiante ran last at Pakenham on Jan 31 Pakenham 2019. © 2022 by Bruce Clark

Still no statutory requirement to publish them. Do the other two racing codes do it?

I don't know why they bother publishing them. Not aware of any statutory requirement to do so.

Yeah I bet if you asked nicely they'd put an AWT trial day on tomorrow!!

I don't get it. The majority of the horse population is now resident in the northern half of the north island yet there are only three turf track trial days scheduled between now and the end of August! Te Rapa August 6 Avondale August 13 (good enough to trial on but not race on!) Te Awamutu 27 August There was a trial day at Te Awamutu on 4 July but nothing for 4 weeks other than the AWT at Cambridge.

Good point but in my opinion that's where the Judiciary have got themselves in a bit of a bind. This latest charge is based on the charge that was dealt to in the District Court in December 2022. 3 months before his disqualification ended. In that case he pleaded guilty. They have muddied the waters with the rules allowing him to pre-train from March 2023 to July 2024 i.e. 18 months. By the way Racing Victoria did upgrade the licensing rules after the December 2022 guilty plea. It's a bit like the McGrath case in NZ if a person isn't disqualified for life and but there are rules in place that allow for the application of a license to train. However with both cases there is now a huge grey area with purely subjective assessments in place like determining who is a "suitable person". There are very few examples outside in the real world (outside of racing) that disallow redemption.

So it ISN'T clear what is the intention as either option 2 or 3 could apply.

So have they changed the pre-training rules? Or is there another rule that says a disqualified person can't pre-train? Could still be option 2 as the same rules would apply.

Dixon drove him better than the previous start. As I said he ground them into the ground rather than setting it up for someone to come off his back off a relatively slow pace.

Bollocks.

Sorry to "extremely alarm" you. But do you consider a stock whip "normal"? BTW I didn't say using a jigger was a normal training method - obviously it isn't. But I don't agree with your opinion that Weir should be rubbed out from horse racing for life. He paid what society thinks was a fair punishment why should the Racing Industry consider it not fair?

The legal issue is when does the new disqualification start? There are three possibilities - February 2019 - the date of the first disqualification and the new sentence is treated as concurrent therefore time served, or; February 2023 - the date the first disqualification ended. The new sentence ends in February 2025, or; July 2024 - the date the second disqualification was given and ends in July 2026. By comparison Weir got treated more leniently in the District Court than by the Racing Feds. I guess the District Court doesn't have a "social license" to deal with.

Which was related to the first charge and surfaced before he had completed the disqualification for the first charge. That disqualification finished in February 2023. Weir was taken to the Magistrates Court for the second charge in December 2022. He was fined $36k and had to make a $10k donation to the RSPCA. He was served notice by the Stewards in relation to that charge heard in the Magistrates Court. There is a good legal argument to say that he has continued to serve a disqualification while those new charges were pending. If that is proven then he will have completed his most recent disqualificatoin next February 2025. I believe that argument has a strong possibility of succeeding. Another argument which I believe has less chance of succeeding is that the latest sentence should be considered concurrent to the first sentence and back dated to 2019. All that aside he is still pre-training thoroughbreds as an unlicensed person and is doing so for many top trainers. He employs 35 staff and has about 130 horses at a time and trainers for the likes of Chris Waller and Lloyd Williams. That would by hypocriscy in my opinion given what is accepted as normal training and racing methods. Many reckon Weir is a genius at training which shows even the best using whatever methods they can can't get a horse to race if it doesn't want to. We've all had horses like that in the stable - elite natural talent but no will to compete no matter what blindfolding head gear, bit or whip you use.

Eh? He has done over 4 years.

He's looked 70 since he was 40.

Weir slapped with new two-year ban … but start date remains unresolved Disgraced trainer Darren Weir used jiggers on three racehorses in 2018. Picture: Michael Klein By Gilbert Gardiner 08:09am • 05 July 2024 Disgraced trainer Darren Weir has been hit with a further two-year disqualification for animal cruelty, the use of a jigger on three racehorses in 2018, and dishonest conduct. Despite first indicating Weir's new penalty would begin on Friday, the Victorian Racing Tribunal was forced to adjourn for further submissions to be made. Weir has operated a successful private pre-training business, Trevenson Park, for about 12 months. His clients include leading trainer Chris Waller and prominent owner Lloyd Williams A disqualified person, under racing rules, cannot have any involvement with horses. Tribunal chair Judge John Bowman set a "tentative orders" timeline for stewards and counsel acting for Weir and co-accused Jarrod McLean and Tyson Kermond to work toward. "In each case the date of disqualification is not yet determined and is to be determined on a date to be fixed," Judge Bowman said. "If required, and if the issue cannot be determined on the papers, a directions hearing will be set down on a date to be fixed, on or before August 16 so there is a definite finality date." • ‘The first couple of years were very tough': Weir's exile revealed Barrister Damian Sheales, acting for McLean and Kermond, sparked a discussion on when their respective 18-month and six-month disqualifications should start. Sheales said his clients' licences were suspended on October 2019, pending police involvement, thereby time served should be taken into account. "They were deprived of their licences from that time," Sheales said. Barrister Ian Hill KC echoed the sentiment, citing the fact that Weir's original four-year disqualification for possession of jiggers expired in February 2023. Since then, Weir has been unlicenced and – at the request of Racing Victoria stewards – has dutifully not attended metropolitan race meetings or yearling sales while otherwise permitted to do so. The tribunal last month heard that the 35 workers Weir employs at Trevenson Park would lose their jobs should he be disqualified and forced to shutter the business. Before the start date stalemate, the tribunal indicated it would support a seven-day stay of the disqualification to afford Weir an opportunity to make any business arrangements for Trevenson Park and potential relocation of racehorses currently on the property. Weir lives on the farm and would be free to continue to do so as a disqualified person. Hill later revisited the position on the start date for Weir's disqualification. • Weir ‘had an addiction to winning races': Waller "We can't exercise our rights now for example and appeal, and seek a stay elsewhere of this decision, because this decision has not really be finalised," Hill said. "Adjourn it to a date, as soon as possible, so this decision can be properly litigated." Barrister Angus Willoughby, acting for stewards, failed to block the Weir camp from being heard on when a net two-year disqualification should start, effective today or February 2023. "I'm not sure what arguments Mr Hill is going to advance, but he has requested he also be heard and I don't see why we should turn down that request," Judge Bowman said. "I don't see why we should exclude him if he has a point to make on behalf of his client." Judge Bowman, during the reading of the tribunal's "unanimous" decision, said minimum two-year disqualifications for each charge, to be served concurrently, should be adopted. "Mr Weir, a most experienced trainer of a huge number of horses, was not only the person in charge of the operation he was the person who actually committed the act of cruelty," Judge Bowman said. "He was the person in charge of the horse… he was the boss, he was the hands on person who actually committed these offences. "He was in charge of and the administration of a procedure that is abhorrent and deserved of condemnation." The three-person panel, including Judge Kathryn Kings and tribunal member Des Gleeson, took into account Weir's genuine remorse, plea of guilt and "a large number of most impressive character references". "We have never seen such a powerful collection," Judge Bowman said. A $36,000 fine for animal abuse, which Weir received from a Magistrates Court in December 2022 without a conviction recorded, also formed part of the tribunal's "just and appropriate" penalty. Weir in March pleaded guilty to using an electronic shock device, commonly referred to as a jigger or cattle prod, on racehorses Red Cardinal, Yogi and Tosen Basil in 2018. Stewards last September laid 10 new charges against Weir and former staff Jarrod McLean and Tyson Kermond for animal cruelty and corruption. The corruption charges were dismissed by the VRT in April. The jigger inquiry was revisited in December 2022 when closed-circuit TV footage of Weir using the apparatus was submitted and viewed as evidence in a Magistrates' Court. Judge Bowman on Friday scolded stewards for the "unfortunate and basically unacceptable" 10-month delay between the reactivated inquiry and new charges being laid. Read all news by Gilbert Gardiner

Some trainers do a good job of training their horses for other occupations rather than racing.

I'm not sure Fish has any pictures of WK.

Hi @Murray Fish I realise how this Topic digressed and it is a common issue on most forums. Do you mind if I shift the exhibition stuff to its own thread? WTF! Warren Kennedy...seems to have been lost.

I don't understand your comment. Do they move the gates across the race turf to change race starts for the AWT? If they do doesn't that defeat the purpose of another an AWT to lessen wear and tear on the turf in winter?

Have I read that right or is it another poorly constructed news release? If it's correct is it a fact that the gates for the AWT racing in winter have to be moved across the main turf track or are they talking about an inside training track? Does anyone know?

MEETING NEWS Awapuni Synthetic Programme Changes – 5 July/25 July Please note the following changes/additions to the two remaining 23/24 synthetic meetings at Awapuni. Friday July 5 – Both the Mdn 1000m and Mdn 1400m will now be for Maidens 2YO+. A Mdn 2140m has been added to this programme as an 8th race. Thursday July 25 – The Maiden 1700m has been deleted (limiting the gate moves across the grass). A R65 2140m has been added to this programme. Both the Mdn 1200m and Mdn 1400m races will now be for Maidens 2YO+

Would be enough for you to clear $5k a country meeting.