Chief Stipe

I prefer Moonee Valley way ahead of Rosehill or Randwick.

I don't find it that way at all. Seen many amazing performances at Ruakaka including Verry Elleegant, Imperatriz and Warsaw.

Hard to run two sub two minute miles one after the other as they do in the Cup. I remember arguing with some old trainers in the early 80's that sub 4 mins would happen in the Cup.

Can we just get one thing right......they weren't DOPING cases nor charges. They were FRAUD AND MISLABELLING charges. That's what those who went to jail were convicted with!!!!

But even then they could not find a positive - the same with the Fishman case. The knew for a long time what was allegedly being provided and tested many many times and didn't score one positive. Fishman like Grasso were more snake-oil salesman than peddling actual drugs. Many pain blockers and bronchodilators are legitimate or have a period after which they are no longer present (nor effective) - that was probably in the instructions - e.g. "Don't give withing three days of competition". Banca was charged initially with "mis-labelling" drugs. He was actually jailed for that one charge of drug adulteration and misbranding!!!!!! NOT for using. As I keep pointing out to you repeatedly - Grasso and Fishman were running a snake oil scam plus selling legitimate drugs mislabelled and circumventing FDA rules and other Federal laws. Nothing that was allegedly sold was unique or novel - they were all bog standard known and tested for drugs. The biggest crime was the fraud - yes they were running fine lines by avoiding out of compeitition testing and making sure they got their witholding periods correct. I doubt there were any PED's present during competition. So IF the FED's and the Integrity Units are going to do anything it isn't hiding in hedges but increasing the random out of competition testing regimes.

Which prominent person? Paying over the top salaries at the neglect of good testing protocols and regimes is bound to fail. There have been tests available for EPO for nearly 20 years. The failure to find a positive is a reflection of the inept and fragmented testing regimes in the USA. The alleged use of pain blockers and bronchodilators are also detectable in a comprehensive testing regime. If you suggest having people hiding in trees is going to find something then you are dreaming. The FBI obtained samples in the Fishman case but not one positive was returned. I suspect in the Grasso/Banca case it wasn't the EPO that was the reason for any alleged performance increase but the pain blockers and bronchodilators. I'm pretty certain in the Fishman case and possibly Grasso's that what they were selling to trainers was SFA. Hence Fishman getting done for essentially fraud and mislabelling.

So even with the source drugs obtained - not one positive to PED's was returned. Which is what I said. It is totally implausible that having a sample to test against that no positives were returned.

You also don't need to improve a horse much to start winning. 5% improvement on 2mins is 1:54. Take Grimsons latest acquisition - Cya Art. Won about $100k and 5 races. Best season was two years ago as a three year old. Had a touch one racing 22 times. Fastest time was winning a mile in 1:56. So proven to be no slug. Just not quite up to its best form. Now it has shifted from a large stable to a smaller one it wouldn't be beyond the realms to turn its form around.

I find it very implausible that the Racing Integrity Units in Australia and New Zealand have not yet detected any PED's. Even the USA hasn't and they knew in advance what was supposedly being administered i.e. they had reference samples to test against. Not one PED positive was returned. Grimson may simply have a good eye for a horse that can be improved. His UDR is that good.

Where's the evidence? Are you telling me that all the integrity units in Australia and now NZ are not monitoring them both very closely? Is Grimson all that successful? What is his UDR?

Which trainer?

Post the evidence.

But some are inferring that they are drug cheats and that's the reason they are top trainers.

But the sport isn't an easy one to pass on knowledge in. Some natural horsemen/women learn quickly others never do.

You are constantly looking for some reason to explain what you believe are exceptional performances. You constantly riddle your posts with inferences and innuendo without a smidgeon of evidence. You read the headlines of, in your opinion, the leading investigative racing journalist - the rogue @Archie Butterfly !!!!

So? Blue Magic was 20 years ago - that's a fact. Purdon wasn't the only one. Are you suggesting he knows how to cheat? If so why did he get caught?

Shouldn't there be a balance?

He does what every other trainer does but is in the top 1% of doing it better. Just like any trainer he looks at a horse to see how it is and what it needs. Decades of experience enables him to see things others miss.

Where is the evidence for that? Aren't you contradicting yourself when on the one hand you say he can take a "busted horse" and get it to win anything and then when it leaves his stable it is "destroyed (busted) for all time"? Didn't he start with cast-off horses in the first place?

Have you ever worked with horses in a professional stable? I just don't think you understand that even if Purdon wanted to I doubt he could pass on his innate knowledge. He'll be doing what ever other top trainer does as well or better but then the next 1-2% is innate to Purdon through decades of working with horses. Hell he was line bred to be a harness trainer and was probably feeding out as soon as he could walk.

Why pass on your competitive advantage? It's not a hobby - it's a professional highly competitive sport. Don't successful companies work hard to protect their IP?

But you wouldn't actually find any one thing or magic potion that would be satisfy your need for scandal. The best trainers do a lot of little things exceptionally well 100% of the time. They also innovate at a macro level (I.e. across all their horses and stable) and refine at a micro level (each individual horse). With latter how many trainers regularly test their horses blood and adjust feed supplements to compensate for any deficiencies? Not many because it is expensive and requires a high level of training and expertise to implement. Two hours at Purdons wouldn't tell you anything. A month probably wouldn't either but after a month you'd realise that the institutional knowledge he has learnt after 3 generations of horse training is very hard to write into a heavy tome let alone a 800 word essay for the general populous to read. I even doubt that some of these top trainers could tell you what they do - they have a feel for it. Instead of 25 years in the Police Force leaving with a pension the prerequisite for being an RIB employee should be at least 5 years working in a stable from dawn to dusk 7 days a week 365 days a year for very small wages when worked out on an hourly basis.

Aside from the fact why would anyone in a competitive industry tell the world what they do to give themselves an edge, the reality is probably most likely very simple. It's doing a lot of little things to make a horse healthy and happy. An eye for detail. Recently I have had the opportunity to see a lot more about how a top NZ stable operates. I knew they must have had an approach that focussed on detail and innovation but I was astounded to what level it went. The reality is the majority of trainers in this country just don't get close to that level. They have a system that they continually improve and every staff member is part of it. I would say Grimson has an eye for a horse that has issues that can be addressed and which will make incremental improvements. A 5% improvement overall can make a big difference. It's a thousand little things that add up. When asked most top trainers couldn't explain what it is they see. Mainly because it isn't one thing. I've met a few good trainers and they a closer to horses than humans. Also not to forget the good ones work very long hours 7 days a week all year round regardless of the weather. None of their critics do the same.

What questions would you ask? List them. I'll send them to trainers.

Bollocks! His income relies on selling muck. Doesn't matter what racing code it is. I'll say it now he is the one that is dishonest.