Chief Stipe

You really are out of your depth on this subject. WHO did NOT recommend the strategy NZ took. They said, and they still say, that Lockdowns and isolating a country do more harm than good. It is going to be interesting watching Cindy (didn't you know she hate being called that?) spin our escape from this BS and reintroduction back into the world especially when the world will have taken their pain and moved on. How many Covid-19 deaths will be acceptable? 50? 100? or 700 just like the flu each year? Sweden for one is going to have a great summer - watch this space!

Quoting an aged doddery old monarch and a political figurehead are hardly "good science".

But you haven't provided a link to the article or research paper that you have quoted. The references are pointless as they have no context. Aside from that I see one is from Time Magazine - a really esteemed medical journal. Most of the others are references to raw data sources. So what?

The source for this quote? The "neighbours" had worse flu seasons than Sweden in 2019. Displaced mortality accounts for some of the differences. Another reason is that most comparisons don't smooth for each countries demographics. Contrary to what a superficial view might lead you to think the demographics of Sweden is quite different to its Nordic neighbours. However that aside the point I was making, which doesn't align with your biased narrative, is that Sweden followed the pre-Covid-19 agreed pandemic plan which was based on a consensus of nations including WHO. The outcome? No different than those who followed more stringent lockdown policies e.g. the UK. The UK has experienced their worst economic contraction since "The Great Frost" of 1709 with a -9.9% reduction in GDP. Sweden had a contraction of -2.8% or a 350% difference. What's more where many many UK businesses have gone bust Sweden's have continued to operate and survive.

May as well be "bad science" as it doesn't meet the standards of evidence based research.

He was a Nazi and was in charge of experiments involving humans at Auschwitz. One of his experiments involved finding the best way to exterminate the most number of people efficiently.

Do you even know who Josef Mengele was?

If you read their research you can see it quite clearly. It is based on ideology and not good science. I would go so far to say that they are happy to see this experiment continue as it gives them data to post validate their crap research.

Josef Mengele had two doctorates - anthropology and medicine.

Your turn. Name your source Whiplash.

Professor Michael Baker, Professor Nick Wilson, Dr Matthew Boyd and Dr Osman Mansoor.

Just two examples. Do you want more? Switzerland, North Dakota.

Who? Name him or her. Baker, Wilson, Wills, Hendy, Gorman - there hasn't been many. Do you believe everything you hear on the news from any "expert"? Or only those that support your viewpoint?

What if I told that the co-researcher is associated with three of the key Government advisors? Would you care then?

Why not? You referenced a specific epidemiologist but can't provide a source. I brought up my training because it has more relevance than an unnamed source.

Which this Government has made worse even before Covid-19 but there subsequent actions during Covid-19 have made it worse by magnitudes. Tell me how did giving a $100m handout to racing help these things? $30m to build three AWT's for the Thoroughbred code.

Would you believe me if I told you that one of the co-researchers that developed and advised the Government regarding the Covid-19 pandemic management strategy was a medical doctor with no experience in epidemiology and was a convicted paedophile would you believe me?

So we have no way of working out the veracity of his research. Sorry you quotes mean nothing if you are quoting an unnamed source. What does what I'm qualified in have to do with it? Evidence based science and the methodology that supports it is the same for all sciences. I don't get the rest of your analogy. Siouxie Wills says she is an epidemiologist but in fact she is a microbiologist.

Who cares what the "full story" is? The fact is they are doing exactly what they said they would do. Nothing more nothing less.

What you haven't been told or don't understand is that vaccines don't stop you from being infectious nor are they 100% effective. Certainly getting a mild or asymptomatic Covid-19 infection would be a better strategy for those under the age of 65 than getting a vaccination.

Name the epidemiologist you keep referencing. What do you mean by "the majority of the rest of the world"? Sweden did it differently and got a better result. Florida did it differently as did South Dakota.

They why don't they ban cars? Ban alcohol? Who would you rather have looking after YOUR life - the Government or yourself? Covid-19 infection is not under Government control either. It is a virus! You can't put a lasso on it and rein it in! However what you say about the Government working on road safety is wrong. Why don't they make the speed limit 50km/h everywhere? Do you know why? It would save lives but drive the economy to its knees. Governments have to make tradeoffs. I wasn't asking for sympathy. The point is we have a selfish generation that is willing to mortgage their children's wealth and health to add a few more years or even months to the end of their own lives.

The UK's NHS is a basket case and has been for 15 years. That is why there has been a NHS "in crisis". Every winter they have had a "crisis".

We don't know who "this epidemiologist" is. What is his name? Just like any profession there are good and bad. There is good science and bad science. I was trained to be a scientist and I have been appalled at the lack of good science and evidenced based research being produced in NZ. Baker, Wilson, Wills, Hendy I hope will eventually be called to account. NZ did NOT act early. That is a myth perpetrated by Government spin aka propaganda. Regardless when they did act they did the wrong thing. Why did they abandon decades of research and pandemic planning? A statement like that is normally made by someone who either doesn't have to worry about money i.e. has more than enough or by a socialist who believes that it doesn't matter what they do as an individual the Government will provide. The statement is glib and naive. What you fail to understand is that the path taken by the NZ Government has increased poverty now and in the future. What they have done is sold the country down the river for short term gain. All totally unnecessary.

Rubbish - Government's make those decisions every day. Ban road transport - that will stop road deaths. Government's are tasked with making decisions based on valuing the best OVERALL outcomes. Yes. They have only deferred the inevitable deaths that will occur from Covid-19 AND added more in the longer term. Those longer term deaths will be the result of business failure, increased poverty, increase mental illness, undiagnosed and untreated disease. If you want to look at the folly of Lockdowns compare the UK and Sweden. Sweden has out performed the UK. What really makes me angry is the loudest proponents of restrictions and lockdowns are scared over 65's that have led a good life and have the associated illnesses that go with it. They have no compassion for those that have really been affected - the young and the poor. The young especially who have nearly zero chance of dying or getting seriously ill from Covid-19 and, as science as proven, less propensity to spread the virus than any other demographic. Saved hundreds of lives? Who? When over 99% of the population don't die from Covid-19 and those under 65 have a far greater chance of dying from the flu! If my mum was alive (ironically she died of influenza complications after decades of smoking and alcohol abuse) I'd tell her to stay at home (which most elderly do anyway) and I'd deliver the groceries to her door. If she moaned I'd say did she want her granddaughter to have a good uninterrupted education, like she had, or not? Yes ALL LIVES MATTER but some more than others. In New Zealand over half of the people that died were in a dementia rest home in late stage dementia. They only had months to live and they would have died in a normal year from a cold or influenza or any other infection that causes pneumonia. A friend of mine was recovering from cancer treatment and needed further treatment. He couldn't get that treatment during lockdown - aged in his late 40's, self employed and with two early teenage children. What value his life?