Chief Stipe

I can't speak for anyone else but I still have some vestiges of passion for the game. However as you have admitted on this forum the decisions that have been made and are continuing to be made has diminished that passion for NZ racing. Just like it has for you. Well unless you are oncourse in NZ you have not option but to see the stark contrast between a premier meeting at Riccarton and a plethora or race meetings from Australia. Pittman has always shown a preference for hard tracks and obviously has the training regime to support that approach. Congrats that he told you as his trainer that all his horses are jumping out of their skin the next day. BTW your 2yr old only ran 800m on a track that hadn't gone off at that stage. For me personally that is NOT the case. I have consistently expressed my concerns about the state of the turf tracks in New Zealand and have often commented on Riccarton. Again I will state that in my opinion the turf track at Riccarton needs a significant renovation. Why spend $16m on an AWT when you have that issue to address? Where is the money going to come from? Reefton - that "shit hole" is the same track. The "shit hole" you describe is a symptom of the same issue that caused the track to be very hard on Saturday and to be very shift on top as evidenced by the clouds of dust. Don't you get that? The only thing that made the track in your opinion in "good order" was a spell of fine weather! If you and Pitty want to put the future of racing into the hands of the God's then I suggest you book a permanent pew to pray from. To think that they want to race more on it!!!

That's a spurious indicator Reefton. Trainers don't have that many options now in the South - you know that.

20 mm was applied. 16mm on Tuesday and 4mm on Thursday of irrigation.

Are you taking the piss Pitty? Are you saying "just add water and the grass grows"? They have to modify the sand with soil to enable grass to grow in it. Did you know that UAE imports sand for building? The desert sand isn't the right kind for making concrete with. FACT! Trivial Pursuit question for you Pitty - what by volume is the largest transported substance in the world?

I was looking at 1400m and further and trying to compare class of horse as well. But regardless of the veracity of the time analysis I will stand by my opinion that the track was harder than G3 and did not stand up to racing very well.

No need to make it personal Joe. Some trainers are able to manage their horse's better than others when it comes to racing on firm surfaces. I owned a horse that won the first Group race in NZ run on an F1. She loved it! My concern here is a multi-faceted one. I don't believe the track was a G3. It was a G2 or maybe even faster as the day progressed; The track turned to a dust bowl and the surface deteriorated - a sign that the underlying soil is stuffed and therefore grass growth is impeded; The surface deteriorating PLUS its hardness would not be good for a horse. There was an extensive debate on this forum and Channel X about the issues with horses breaking down at Te Rapa. It was felt this was due to the inconsistency in the surface hardness due to the over use of sand to try and fix soil issues; When it rains or irrigation is used then the water will not permeate into the soil in any depth. Most will run off and the top will become greasy. The Track Manager said in the video the moisture content of the track was 38% - it sure dried quick from that 38%. With the soil stuffed the Track Manager has no buffer for management - he is going to have to be impossibly accurate with the irrigation regime. Watch this space if there is inconsistency in application (has happened at Riccarton before) or unforecast shows on the day!; The expenditure of $16m on an AWT when the main turf track needs work. In my opinion the AWT will struggle to pay its way therefore where does the money come from to address the main turf track issues? Other club asset acquisition? As I've posted before many many times - Ellerslie, Te Rapa, Awapuni, Trentham all have similar issues. I've been banging on about the issue since 2005 when I walked the Ellerslie track early one morning on a big Grp day. I took the trainer out with me an hour or so later and he wished that he hadn't seen it as he would have scratched except for the fact we had travelled from the CD. Nigel Tiley was with us and he immediately scratched his horse from one of the big races in which it was a favoured runner. I have seen NOTHING done in the last 15 years to any of these Turf Track's to address the underlying issues apart from sand slitting. Sand slitting is a short term fix that eventually comes unstuck - the sand drains away and you keep adding more and more - you don't see good turf growing at the beach! I walked Te Rapa about 7 years ago and I could see the inconsistency in the surface then. Good turf surface and then every now and then a sand pot hole.

The track deteriorated during the day - no doubt got drier - if a track gets too hard it doesn't translate into faster times. However if you review the first two or three races there is very little dust thrown up. But as the day progresses the clouds got bigger and bigger across the whole track. This would indicate that the surface was breaking down and the grass root structure wasn't good enough to mitigate it. Pitty's next champ in the first got the best of the track. Just having a quick look at the videos the track was off from Race 4 onwards.

This isn't sand Pitty. If you think that these pictures show a "track in good order" then you and many of us have a different definition of "good order"! The clouds of dust didn't have anything to do with the track needing ripping in the last two weeks? Probably because there was a hard pan of soil inhibiting drainage. Can we see the actual penetrometer measurements?

Rule Number(s): 638(3)(b)(ii)Following the running of Race 6 (Triton Pacific Owens Plate), Information No. A12945 was filed with the Judicial Committee. It was alleged by the Informant that Mr Ormsby used his whip excessively prior to the 100m when riding HE CAN SING. Mr Ormsby said that he understood the Rule, the Charge and confirmed ... (Feed generated with FetchRSS)View the full article

Rule Number(s): 330(3)(c)Prior to the running of Race 1, Information No. A12944 was filed with the Judicial Committee. It was alleged by the Informant that Mr Elliott could not make the contracted weight for SLINKLY LINKY, SHAKE THAT TUSH, MARBUZET and OUR WONDERLAND. Mr Elliott said that he understood the Rule and confirmed ... (Feed generated with FetchRSS)View the full article

Rule Number(s): 869(4),6(b) and (c)Mr Renault alleged that Mr Hurrell (BOULTON HOME) breached r 869(4),6(b) and (c) in Race 3, in that he forced THE WEST WING (Mr M Williamson) wider on the track prior to the 1000 metres. Rule 869(4) states: No horseman shall during any race do anything which interferes or is likely to interfere with ... (Feed generated with FetchRSS)View the full article

Brodie with these sorts of tips the TAB will be paying you to punt!

Ok so the two 1400m races later in the day run two seconds slower than the maiden 1400m is due to the wind? Either that or the maiden winner should be on a plane to OZ post haste. In my opinion the track ran faster than a G3 and the clouds of dust and clods flying (albeit hard dry ones) didn't indicate a "track in good order" as you asserted.

I'm certainly not having a dig at Pitty. As I've said before I have the utmost respect for his deeds as a trainer. Certainly love it when the Pitman stable nabs a big one across the Strait. My issue is with the state of our big turf tracks and the spending of $50m on three AWT'S when we have serious issues with our main turf tracks. Ellerslie, Te Rapa, Trentham and Riccarton all have well documented issues yet there seems to be no strategy to address these issues. Although it appears that is one of the reasons for confiscating racing club assets. It all seems disjointed and either lacking transparency or financial planning/business casing. Yesterday's surface at Riccarton did not look good when viewing on Trackside.

So how does an AWT fit into that approach? As for Arthur Lydiard's training approach the key to his philosophy was building an aerobic base by doing the miles BEFORE introducing fast work. He DID NOT recommend running on sealed roads to build that base. His team of runners could be found running on all sorts of surfaces including tracks in the Western Hills, sand dunes and golf courses. The key was lots of miles to build up an aerobic conditioning base.

I moved the debate about yesterday's Riccarton track to its own thread.

To be fair when comparing the times for the day the early times were exceptional but tended to be comparatively slower as the day progressed.

I've actually done some research on Grey Way - I doubt he would have won 50+ on AWT's however the tracks he raced in were a damn sight forgiving than the one we saw yesterday. Not only that they were in their prime. The variation between the hard and the heavy was less than it is now. As for not irrigating - nearly an inch was put on the track during the week.

Were you being "entertained" in the Presidents bar Reefton?

Aidan O'Brien's four runners ruled out of Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe By Andy Stephens@StevoGG Sat 3 Oct 2020 O'Brien's four runners are out of the Arc (Pat Healy) Aidan O'Brien's intended four runners in the Qatar Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe at Longchamp on Sunday were sensationally ruled out of the race on Saturday night. It was revealed on Friday that various batches of Gain horse feeds, which O'Brien uses, had been found to be contaminated with a prohibited substance. And urine samples taken from the quartet have come back positive. Derby winner Serpentine was among O'Brien's quartet, along with three more Group One winners in Japan, Mogul and Sovereign. The first three-named had all been trading at about 14-1. Their absence was announced via a Tweet on the official account of O’Brien’s Ballydoyle yard at 9.20pm. It read: "Unfortunately the results of the urine samples taken from the horses yesterday have come back positive from the French laboratory. Derby winner Serpentine had been set to be among O'Brien's Arc runners (Focusonracing) "There is a possibility that the contaminent may have left their racing by the time of racing tomorrow however we have no guarantee of this and in order to protect the integrity of racing we have decided to withdraw all our horses from racing tomorrow. "Joseph and Donnacha O'Brien will do likewise." O'Brien Sr had withdrawn his brilliant dual Classic winner, Love, from the Arc on Thursday because of the heavy ground. She had been favourite in many ante-post lists. The absence of his star-studded quintet means Enable, seeking a record-breaking third win in the mile and a half feature, will start hot favourite for the fourth successive year. She had been a top-priced 6-4 before news broke of the O'Brien runners being ruled out but is now no bigger than 11-10, with some firms quoting her at odds-on. Stradivarius, her stablemate, is a top-priced 11-2, but as low as 7-2 in places. Fancy Blue will be another absentee on Sunday (Pic: Focusonracing) Gain Equine Nutrition had issued a statement on Thursday advising trainers to refrain from feeding horses its equine products, including its widely used cubes and mix, after it emerged some of its products have been contaminated with Zilpaterol. That substance is unlicensed in Europe but is used in America and elsewhere to promote weight gain, mainly in cattle. The advisory came about after France Galop announced five horses had tested positive for Zilpaterol in recent weeks. O'Brien reacted swiftly, switching from Gain products to Connolly's Red Mills feed on Friday morning, but the damage had been done. He was set to have four other runners in the supporting races, too, including St Mark's Basilica, who had been favourite for the Qatar Prix Jean-Luc Lagardere. O'Brien's two sons also had leading Group One contenders due to race on Sunday. Donnacha's French Oaks and Nassau Stakes winner Fancy Blue was second favourite for the Prix de l'Opera, while his older brother Joseph's Pretty Gorgeous had headed the betting in the Qatar Prix Marcel Boussac. The Arc was first run 100 years ago but celebrations this weekend have already been muted. Only 1,000 people will be permitted in the racecourse on Sunday because of the coronavirus pandemic and heavy rain in Paris this week has left the racecourse saturated. Leading jockey Christophe Soumillon, 39, has been riding at the track longer than most and said on Saturday he had never known the ground at the track to be riding deeper. More showers are forecast on Sunday.

Given the times they ran at Riccarton yesterday was the track really presented as a G3? The track was given 16mm of irrigation on Tuesday afternoon/night taking it from a Dead 4 to a Dead 5 on Wednesday. It had returned to a Dead 4 on Friday and that afternoon 4mm of water was applied. At 6:30am on raceday the track was a G3. It wasn't upgraded during the day.

I thought tracks were supposed to be presented no better than 3? Yesterday wasn't G3 as officially posted but a G2 if not an F1. As I posted earlier in the week the Riccarton turf has issues. A bog when wet, gluey in-between and as hard as concrete when dry and not irrigated. Unless sand has been applied the clouds of dust kicking up down the straight yesterday were evidence of dry mud and proving the soil structure is stuffed. I'll repeat - all fine and dandy building a new All Weather Track but where is the funding coming from to fix the Turf Track? Further the argument that not racing on the track during the worst months will help it "rejuvenate" doesn't seem to have happened this year with a lengthy spell! Questions should be asked of yesterday's steward's and the track manager. Afterall trainers have to accept what they are given. I doubt ANY trainer can put hand on heart and say the surface yesterday was only a G3 and was a good surface to race on.

Geez what's with all the clouds of sand? Have they already had a Polyfiller delivery? Didn't look like the "best turf track in NZ"!

If the number of NZ Harness races in August was up 29% over last year and there was no increase in NZ Thoroughbred races then wouldn't it be safe to assume that the 10% increase in turnover could be attributed to Harness?