the galah

i quoted their exact wording earlier,which implies more than what you say. but i agree with you they lack transparency. If things were as good as they make out,then all they would have to do is release the fugures and show that and that would silence the naysayers.

tomnights tote betting pools are rather pitiful . The last 3 races at auckland haven't even made over $3000 in the win pool. Most of the others under $4000. hrnz spokes people keep saying the turnovers are good,well it can't be betting on the tote. Addington had a couple of races ok ,which obviously got a couple of minutes more coverage around tea time in australia,but the rest of the pools very small.Manawatu type tote turnovers some of the racesit seems some drivers simply aren't trying very hard. or just waiting for next week.The last 2 races, $1.90 favorite ameretto franco simply never given a chance to win by sitting last on a sprint home even though the trainer indicated before ,in a pre race interview,he thought it would be drivin positively, then one of the 2 win movers at auckland in a 6 horse race,bettor raction at $4,definetly driven to just follow them around. oh well.

i gave them the benefit of the doubt on the basis that as a handicapping,rating and programming committee ,they had commented on turnovers, when it was not their area they were tasked with,thus they may not have had all the data. my main point was they had commented on turnovers to create a positive spin ,but they deliberately used language that could be taken 2 ways to cover their arses from future criticism should information become public which showed they were wrong in how they spun it. to be honest,i'm a bit confused as to what your saying in your post as i think it could be taken 2 ways. 1) that you believe what they are saying, as you are saying they have access to all the data to back that up so wouldn't say it unless they knew it was true.. or 2)you don't believe what they say,because of the vagueness of the language they use in their report.

huh.i explained why .No point picking out bits Again,that ain't neccassarily so,even probably so. i explained why if you read my whole post. but for you again. if you run x amount of races and those amount of races are not generating enough income from wagering to cover the stakes paid.And then you increase the amount of races from x to y,and you generate the same turnover per race on the y races as you had on the x races,then what you have done is maintained turnover but increased the deficit between turnover and stakes paid,because you have run more of them. you just miss the points i made,i can't help that.

on the hrnz website theres a story that refers to a sub committee of a ratings ,handicapping and programming commttee. This group comprised of rob lawson,mike johnson and brett gray. in section 6 of their report thay noted "turnovers appear very strong.Note tis hard to compare year on year as the number of race meetings and number of races has increased and we have also had cambridge changed from tuesday to thursday.The good news overwhelmingly is that turnovers certainly have NOT(their use of caps) dropped" very generalised , vague,in many ways,but trying to be upbeat. they say Its hard to compare year on year figures because of the major changes,but they did anyway because they believe the turnovers haven't dropped. no mention of how geoblocking has effected nz wagering,how it has impacted income from overseas bookmakers who take betting on the nz harness product,the lower starter numbers,really no mention of lots of relevant stuff,because,lets face it,they probably don't have the data or were tasked with giving an in depth analysis of turnover and its impacts. but they want to put out there the message of don't panic,everythings going fine, as far the income harness racing will receive from wagering. Anyway,the lack of context that i refer to can be drilled down to the most obvious important thing. is the income from wagering going to generate enough income to maintain stake levels. i mean,whats the point in saying,wagering has certainly NOT dropped,when if the wagering level of the previous year they were comparing it with was not generating enough incme to maintain stake levels. In other words,its entirely possible,even probable,that if wagering has actuallly gone up in the last year,it still won't be generating enoough income to maintain the level of stakes. so really this committee of 3 comments about wagering,really don't mean much at all. they're simply trying to give a positive impression. Theres a lot of that in almost every press release on the hrnz website these days. never an admission of any worrying data,never an admission of anything negative really. It was like the press release from m peden about the bonus scheme.Like you could read that and think,if they aren't going to ever admit that some things are trending negatively or that some highly promioted scheme was a failure,then why should anyone believe they ever will tell it as it is.

at least aaron whites consistent. the first race tonight he labelled as his whisper of the night the serial galloper levi. its broken its last 6 starts, so whats he say,this thing wins if it trots all the way. so it galloped for 1900m of the 2200 after looking very nervous pre start. now even the out the gate fellas are having a chuckle about that,but they did follow his advice and backed it.

i always thought there was an irony in how the out the gate crews betting evolved.. The show was on a thursday,a traditional nz harness night. and we recognise,the out the gate crew was trying encourage greater interest from the casual observer of harness racing,those who may not have normally watched,with the intent of showing them they didn't need to spend much to have a bit of fun and entertainment and to spark some future interest in harness racing.. atl east that was what i think they have been trying to do. I think have been reasonably successful in achieving that as relates to the greyhounds. But ,through no fault of theirs,the out the gater crew had to deal with a cambridge harness product that even the avid harness fans,realised was the worst example of a nz harness betting product in nz then you add to that they used aaron whites selections. Now,as i said earlier,a white can tip ok at auckland,but at cambridge he kept tipping serial gallopers and horses driven that gave the impression either they werennt trying or that they just went back and followed them around like they would wait for a 6 horse field the following week where they may get a better draw. so,as i have pointed out in an earlier post,the out the gate team,soon realised this harness product is not what they should be betting on,as after all,it may not have been their money,but they wanted to make money for the people who had invested in their pools ,so they realised they needed to focus on the dogs and the dogs you could tell were trying each time and their selector,a mccook,seems to be a knowledgable tipster. so the irony was,the out the gate team tried to support the harness racing product more,i'm sure wanted to,but the cambridge harness product simply is not a great product to promote harness racing wagering and the out the gate team exposed that,which was not their fault.

the latest bit in the news segment on the hrnz has a story headlined "2 year old bonus (the $12,000 ones)delivered on increasing opportunities" you've have to give m peden credit for that headline. yes the bonuses failed to get breeders to breed more horsesor or get any more horses starting,continually had small field sizes,but hey...guess what...they did deliver on increasing opportunities for people to race their 2 year olds for a bonus. i'm not sure i would want to buy a used car off him,but points for finding a positive to spin that anyway. then it says,having achieved its objectives(lets not let the truth get in the way with that bit),the scheme is coming to a close this year. what does that mean. does it mean the 2 years the bonuses that existed to encourage people to breed their mares,will never reward anyone who bred on the understanding they would have an opportunity to race for the $12,000 bonus. In other words it rewarded those who had bred before the bonuses were introduced, who would not have been aware of the bonus when they bred,but didn't reward those who bred thinking they may get one. It sounds a bit like all those rather naive breeders who bred to a nz based sire, thinking they would get to race for bonuses,only to see them cancelled before they had a chance as well. oh well,at least todays story indicates hrnz have made a decision that made sense,even if they took a long time to work it out .

the low grade average country sunday harness meetings up until 12-18 months ago, used to normally have higher tote pools than the average friday night races at addington and way more than an auckland friday meeting.It had been like that for many years. but,looking at the tote pools recently,sunday turnovers have dropped and seem to have been significantly impacted by the decision to run nz galloping meetings on sundays.Now sunday turnover seem to be about the same as an addington friday night meeting and the early sunday races have poor turnovers. In november 2023 there was only 2 sunday galloping meetings in nz,this year there was 8. i don't know whether HRNZ had any imput in that decision making,but from a harness perspective,that seems to have been a real negative.I assume the same applies to the ff. so really,even the sundays,which still seem to be the profit making meetings,aren't going as good as they used to. the sunday turnovers always used to prove what most of us had always said,the average punters don't bet on the quality of the horses,they bet on the quality of the betting product. And sundays had and actually still do provide a superior betting product. of course,friday nights have no nz gallops meetings to compete against.

what a silly reply. Misinformation.Having an opinion is misinformation to you and enough for you to say i'm anti greyhound racing.Just a silly reply. You clearly haven't bothered to read what former chief vet for grnsw,alex brittan,said about the greyhound industry during his time in their employment. he alledged many things,including greyhound nsw welfare and integrity commission(gwic) was deliberately obfuscating and under reporting the facts. Have you even read the very detailed 54 page submisiion he made to the the drake commion hearing,a hearing which in effect was investigating itself.I have. you gave figures in an earlier post. brittan explained many things,including how figures were being manipulated. i suggest you go read his 54 page letter or have a read of the evidence related to that from the months long public hearing. You may have no interest in how the commisioners report addresses his concerns,but those who aren't blinkered,would like to know whats in that report. your blinkered approach has contributed to the demise of your industry. And still you practice it and you wonder why your being shut down.It needn't have been that way,but in your mind you can blame the anti greyhound racing people or winston peters. It wasn't them that gave them the ammunition to fire. Also you must be aware some of the issues which he says are major contibutors to greyhound injuries are still applicable in nz greyhound racing.

ive never bagged manawatu myself.Their stake level seem about right. from those comments you don't seem aware that the grass racks are the races that get the high turnovers in nz and are the meetings that run at a profit. its the income from the grass track meeetings that hrnz will need to continue, to cross subsidise the loss making clubs.

but if you look at the hrnz board and the ceo,they all have well credentialed backgrounds. so,.business success or not,does it make any difference. isn't the most important thing ,we need people who understand what drives the harness product, how to maintain and maximise the profit making parts of the industry.,while mitigating the level of any loss making parts of the industry. in other words ,just common sense is needed. its clear who the industry leaders surround themselves with and who has their ear. then you have the likes of the fella peden. Its like he gets the word from mr steele,who says something like,"matt can you come up with another hair brained spending binge,but this time for the people in the cheap seats,to keep them quiet'. Then peden comes up with some scheme ,so in effect they are not just overspending on the lords,but on the peasants as well. and to be fair to them,it works.It placates the peasants. They too think of how they pay the bills due today and not 3 years time. oh well,i had better get my focus back on the gallops at cromwell today. Money to be made on south island gallops as i have said before,they always have good betting races. Just as good as the grass track harness meetings.

yes,i agree with that. but you haven't commented on what i said about the strength of harness racing, used to be the level of grass root particpation.(its not now) I'm not sure whether you've ignored that because it can't be argued with. but its obvious you simply believe prioritsing the elite over the grass root people is good policy. And everyone agrees the sport is in serious decline. so its simple,the current policies have contributed to the sports decline. Simple as that. and just as simple,is the point i keep making to you,which you have no answer to. that is,when hrnz have spent all the entain cash and forbury money and cash reserves,which they currently are doing,well what happens then . Because your argument is always the rich and the elite need to be financially rewarded and prioritised. so if we extrapolate out your argument,for me,the logical conclusion is you must believe, the rich leave the sport when the money runs out. your the one saying without all the big stakes and bonuses,the sport will lose them.I'm the one saying that won't happen,your the one saying it will. so where is the sport going to be in 10 years time,as hrnz will have spent that money well before then. Maybe what will happen in 10 years is hrnz can sell up auckland,sieze their assets,promise to keep the monet in the north then cunningly work around that to support the south island as that will be the only place which can generate a profirt to keep the sport going.Just saying,in 10 years time,i bet my botto9m $,that is what some peopkle will be pushing and the reason why the industry eneded up considering that will have been because of poor fiscal responsibilty in the now.

I will explain ,in a different way,why i think your thinking is flawed and why those in charge of HRNZ have lost perspective of reality. i actually believe poor decsiion making has already undermined the sport,beyond repair, the poor policies going back many years. The strehgth of harness racing in nz had always been the level of grass root participation far outweighs the level of participation of the big players. in other words,the numbers that the grass roots people contributed to the sport,whether it be as owners,punters,sponsors,breeders,licence holders,everything used to by far far greater than the overall contribution of the high end players. all of those grass root people had many friends ,relatives etc who followed their prograss. But that level of participation has been undermined by many things. things happening outside the industries control have significantly impacted the grass root level numbers,but the problem is ,the decision makers could often have mitigated the damage through better policies,but they haven't. And now we have decision makers prioritising on steroids,the people you say deserve more support than the ever diminshing grass roots level people. where the grass roots level have also failed themselves,is they have been unable to psuh their cause as a collective and therefore the big players voices are the ones always being heard.But hrnz should have recognised that if they were indeed leaders,instead of pandering to the rich and the elite. Thats whats played out. its reality. it hasn't been the wealthy or the millionaires who are leaving the sport has it. you can keep saying they will lose those blokes from the sport if they don't throw more millions there way,i don't believe you. What will lose those millionaires participation is when they see they are in a sport which has lost the public and the grass root number of particpants that he sport once had. if you were a multi millionaire,would you rather win a big race for a lower stake,but with a big public following or would you rather win a big race with a big stake and very few watching or seeing you r achievement. you say its the latter,i say its the former.

saying theres always a way,ignores reality to whats actually is happening. what i have read,from people like myself,was a criticism of entain pushing hrnz into focusing on the 2 year bonuses, which very obviously benefitted small high profile interest groups ,with the biggest beneficiary being the man in charge of entain at the time.Thats just a fact. Also we were told by hrnz the 2 year old bonuses would lead to increased numbers being bred, but the first year proved that was a miserable failure. But as to entain money that went with the government deal,no one has criticised that. its how that money is being used by hrnz that is the subject of the criticism. i don't know where you get this idea that stud farms and millionaires are going to put more money into sponsorship. that seems unrealistic thinking. have you not noticed that sponsorship seems to be declining in the sport. Look at the races names and its obvious. Also,its also so obvious,that if you run more and more races ,then less and less races will have sponsors.Thats just a fact as well. and these stud farms and millionaires that you refer to,again,have a look at where the money from bonuses and high end stakes are going.They may well spend a lot of money on their horses,but hrnz gives them preferential treatment and they are the ones getting the money that hrnz throws around. you would know the people who own the horses that come to nz and take away all the stakemoney are owned by the rich.Whether it be bonuses or the high end races,the rich benefit and the average person doesn't. Thats in a nutshell is why the indutsry has lost all the small timers who collectively formed the strong base that used to exist within the industry.They're gone,as have their mares. Again just reality. as to slot races. You would know hrnz is propping them uip with stakemoney that would be better kept for when hrnz run short on money. Cambridge is in a financial hole that hrnz seem intent on bailing them out of,and part of the reason for that hole is the slot races. So you can advocate away as much as you like about slot races,but thats advocating for more bail out money to go to whoever runs them. you always try to be positive,but wishing doesn't change reality.

trackside just showed a shot of oamaru right now,4 minutes before race 1 starts.. 1 car in the public car park,1 person in the grandstand above birdcage and about half a dozen floating around the main grandstand. a beautiful day in oamaru.

Calmbeforethestorm now only paying $4.60. it was still paying $9 when i looked last night. actually thats about what it should have opened at,but still it hasn't trotted all the way on race day yet,so who knows with it. if i was looking at that field,i would say everyone in it would be hoping they run second,not win,as the way the handicapping system works the winner will then have to run in their next start,against horses like prince teka,brianna,holly highlander,etc. really whoever wins today,thats the end of their racing earning potential for 12 months,possibly a lifetime. its a real indictment on the current way races are programmed.The programmers don'tseem to care whether they retain 1 win horses for racing. so in race 1 today,everyone will be driving to run 2nd at best.Probably morrie aftom may be trying the hardest,so maybe it wins.Who knows.10 minutes time we will find out

i'm on the same page as well about larsens driving. I've always thought larsens got a reasonable tactical brain,but horses don't quite run for him like they do for some others. yesterday he had to be on a downer anyway. He would have been upset about what happened with montage,a horse he had driven many times.Wasn't everyone in that race lucky to avoid montage when he faltered so badly. It just happened that the horse trailing montage, driven by b orange, had dropped off a couple of lengths off his back and the fella 3 back the inside was happy sitting there and not following montage.B orange reacted very quickly and other drivers behind followed suit Quite fortunate indeed. so larsen,with montage in the back of his mind, he drove his trotter xerion,gave it the perfect run,but it seemed to struggle from a lap out and was disappointing. Xerions a horse that i've pointed out previously was kept going over winter when its form was getting worse and it appeared the horse was getting more run down.He did finally give it a freshen up and after that,it won last week,bit it wasn't as good yesterday. So he would have hopped on his 2 year old on a bit of a downer,and he produced a dumb drive. actually i started a thread on him a year or so ago and expressed the opinion,horses seemed to run much better for his son when he came back for a holiday and drove his fathers horses,but then his son went back to victoria. Larsen is a trainer that buyers should pay a bit more for his horses.As hosn horses seem to always go on and do a good job when sold. Theres been some in queensland like that.So hes a good honest trainer.

you end your post with a comment that seems to accept stake money will be reduced significantly because of the overspending going on at the moment. while you've also expressed the opinion that the current overspending is a good thing,as its necessary to maintain current participation levels. So the obvious question is,if you believe maintaining the current stake levels and bonuses and big payout races is necessary to maintain current participation levels,then why don't you think thats going to be relavant when they run out of the money to do that in 3 years time. Its like,you promote policies that will have a far greater negative impact on the industry in years to come,than was necessary had we had leadership who were fiscally responsible.And you seem to acknowledge that. and even if you think the current policies are working,can you then explain how that thinking lines up with the stats that show declining licence holder numbers,mares being bred,field size numbers,turnovers,on course attendance,etc,etc,etc.

sad to see montage pulled up today Always runs an honest race and was doing that again until he faltered.i hope hes ok.sad when you see that happen. Seems to have run every southand meeting for the last 2 years.

just watched the first race at invercargill. the non win trot . the fields are small down there,but they have the same serial gallopers each week. majestic challen one of them.I just watch it and have a chuckle each week.. I did back it a few times in the past,but gave up a while ago. Here we are a year later and it still does the same thing. Gets grumpy pre start,always runs like its got something going on in its mouth that really annoys the hack out of it.if it does go away,which is a big if these days,as soon as it spots a galloper in front of it, its stuffed because when its asked to go a bit wider its sore mouth gets the better of it and it gallops. it has to be one of the grumpiest horses racing in nz.Yet its been able to win $23,000 in stakes.I wonder if it will ever win a race?

i see its in tomorrow and is paying $1.85 on the ff. Its only got 6 other rivals and only 1 of those has placed previously. gee,its not a strong field.Morrie afton paying $2.25 the other favorite. bizza too only paying $1.18 to run in top 2. personally i think the prices are ridiculous,but then again,what else is in there that could win.Maybe canlmbeforethestorm paying $10 could win,but it breaks all the time and that stable used to prefer to place and not win.But it does have a driver on who likes to win. who knows,something will win though.

there must be a point when they hit rock bottom,maybe this is the year,maybe not. Either way the numbers being bred in the last 2-3 years will not be able to sustain the level of racing they currently have. its just common sense that if they are struggling with so many small fields now,imagine what it will be like when they take away 10-20% of the numbers coming through. thats why hrnz should be planning how to adjust to whats coming.its understandable they have been trying to encourage people to breed their mares in the last couple of years,even if they have failed ,but they surely should be transparent about what there plan is , in the future, to adjust the racing calendar to come into line with less horse numbers.Or maybe they don't have one and will just wing it

i don't think you can use bonus cash or bonus bets on tote pools,but yes the bonus bets and bonus cash is inflating ff turnovers. as you and i have pointed out before,if the tab assess the need for restictions based solely on whether a punter is profitable on ff betting or not,they fail to factor in the big pictute of the overall contribution to the racing industry by each individual punter,,whether it be tote betting takeouts the tab receive,ownership,sponsorship,etc,etc. and the tab/entain have demonstrated they are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face type of thing. I can only assume that within the tab there are people who receive bonuses based around how much profit they can gwenerate within ff and those people couldn't care less that they are losing a punters tote turnover because of their decisions,because it doesn't effect the assesment of their bonuses. its the only explanation i could come up with for what i call the level of stupidity as regards some of their decisions around individuals in the past. i think your right. clearly they have a strategy to kill off all tote each way tote betting,especially tote place bettingi. The pools are so pitiful sometimes that theres simply no point in having place bets on the tote. The tote betting,especially the tote place betting,these days is just for the $1 ew punter. If you used to spend a hundred or two a race,or now days even a $20 place bet,then you would have flagged tote betting long ago as you cut the odds too much. and the powers that be still haven't said what the total betting or attendance figure were for nz cup day.Obviously they can't spin that to make it sound positive enough for them. And i wonder how the breeding numbers are going.They must one day hit rock bottom,but that doesn't seem to have happened yet.I wonder how bad this year will be. Drive past a couple of the studs and i think you will see the answer.Where have all the horses gone?

i watched the interview and my take was exactly the same as yours. The entain man expressed empathy and tried to create the impression everything entain does is in the best overall interests of the nz racing industry,but reality is you could tell from his words thats his focus is on whats best for entains bottom line.And so it should be,he works for entain. but whats best for entain is not always whats best for nz racing.A lot is but a lot isn't.Media and racing adminsitrators tend to mislead on that. and this entain bloke lumped all nz racing under the same umbrella. Well,we all know its different. we all know one of the major failings of the current hrnz decision making is they place the same weight on the relevance and importance of factors that apply to the galloping code as to applying to harness racing.This entain fella kept empathising the need for racing to be based around the main tracks and we all know gallopings main tracks are where the nz population numbers are. And we all know that perhaps the biggest flaw in the current hrnz leaderships thinking ,is they think harness racing should work the same.In other words our current administrators make decision making around what they think shouild be the main driving factors(e.g.population),ignoring the realities. so that entain man and entain will do what they do,but its what hrnz do that really counts,and most can see the current leadership are dreamers,not realists. as to entain cutting back on the rebates. the nz tab have been whittling away at that for the last 5 years,even prior to entain. people who say they should have a blanket restriction on winning punters on ff,really have no idea whatsoever of what they are talking about. I have given specific examples of why that type of thinking is ridiculaous. every punter has different spends and different pools they invest in and decisions should have been made around what was best for the overall tab bottom line,and that means have different approaches for different people based on the circumstances the same applies to the rebates. For example,if someone is getting $10,000 a month in rebates from tote spend,then obviously the tab will be receiving around $30,000-$40,000 a month in tote % takeout from each dollar invested,depending on what bet type the spend is on. So if that punter was say generating an average overall profit of $5000 per month ,which included the rebates in that persons profit loss ledger,then if the tab take aways the rebates,the tab have just made that person now return a loss of $5000. So whats going to happen.Your going to lose that customers tote spend and the $30-40,000 tab income that went with it.In other words to save $10,000 ,you cost yourself $40,000 So there is real bad down sides to the tab knocking the rebates on the head. It doesn't effect me. They reneged on a verbal agreement they had with me a few years ago so i just stopped betting as without the rebates,it wasn't worth the efoort. So your going to get people doing the same thing again,and amny of them are much bigger punters than i was.